Overdone Standards

[MartyJazz]

While perusing a number of CDs at a 2nd CD store I like to frequent, it occurred to me that I was eliminating a few for purchase based on the sight of certain standard tunes that either never did anything for me or that have become such warhorses I really don't care to listen to yet other versions, no matter the artist. Anyway, my nominees for tunes that turn me off:

Willow Weep for Me

Tenderly

Sunday

Over the Rainbow

Come Rain or Come Shine

Lover Man

I realize that a great songwriter or two are involved in the above list, e.g., Harold Arlen (whose output is justifiably celebrated) but that's where I'm at. How about you?

[GA Russell]

I've reached the limit with My Funny Valentine.

Edited December 19, 2005 by GA Russell

[Free For All]

Sunday

"Sunday"? What tune is that? "Come Sunday"? "Never On A Sunday"? If it's the latter, I'm with you!

It obviously is a personal issue for each of us, Marty- I still love about half the tunes you listed.

We've been down this road before, and I stand by the opinion that it's an issue of the interpretation more than the tune itself. I've heard some performances of very familiar tunes that have been unexpectedly inspiring.

Sure, there are well-worn tunes I'll tend to not call at gigs, but I try to give others the benefit of the doubt when they take on one of the "warhorses". Seems like just as soon as I've given up on a tune someone will come along with a great version.

For example........

Tenderly

Edited December 19, 2005 by Free For All

[John Tapscott]

Well, I think it depends on who does it and how it's done. I for one, have never been fond of "Over the Rainbow", no matter who does it. (Ruby Braff excepted - he somehow wrings the schmaltz out of every tune - God bless Ruby). OTOH, I never tire of "Come Rain or Come Shine." There are some great big band arrangements of that tune. Two which come to mind are by Bill Stapleton and Bob Florence.

[Harold_Z]

I can understand the mindset, and at one time I may even have operated under it, but you just never know whose going knock your socks off on some standard you've written off as overplayed.

.....Or on any tune for that matter. It's what the player brings to it.

[Free For All]

OTOH, I never tire of "Come Rain or Come Shine."........... Bill Stapleton

Oh yeah! One of my favorite Woody charts! I've heard Dennis Dotson and Ron Stout play the *#@% out of it!

Stapleton was one the best writers for that band IMHO.

[Guest]

Autumn Fucking Leaves. (Is it alright to say "fucking" on this board? If not someone tell me and I'll edit it down to "freaking" or "flipping" or something, but I did not want to undersell my distaste for Autumn Fucking Leaves...whoops, there I go again.)

I'm also boycotting "Some Day My Prince Will Come" over Disney throwing the World Series Parade at Disneyland being commentated on by (their) ESPN employees a few years ago. (I'm the king of petty causes)

And I have a theory that Coltrane only recorded "My Favorite Things" to prove that he could make any smoltzy showtune hip and everyone mistakenly took that as a sign that My Favorite Things was actually a hip tune. Coltrane can pull it off. No one else can or should try. Everyone just cut it out.

[7/4]

And I have a theory that Coltrane only recorded "My Favorite Things" to prove that he could make any smoltzy showtune hip and everyone mistakenly took that as a sign that My Favorite Things was actually a hip tune. Coltrane can pull it off. No one else can or should try. Everyone just cut it out.

No doubt about it.

[Free For All]

Autumn Fucking Leaves.

That was actually the original title, but they thought it'd negatively impact sales.

Some others:

There Will Never Fucking Be Another Fucking You

Blue Fucking Bossa

I Fucking Love You

Fucking A, Take The Fucking A Train

Yester-fucking-days

Don't Fucking Blame Me

etc., etc..............

[7/4]

Autumn Fucking Leaves.

That was actually the original title, but they thought it'd negatively impact sales.

Some others:

There Will Never Fucking Be Another Fucking You

Blue Fucking Bossa

I Fucking Love You

Fucking A, Take The Fucking A Train

Yester-fucking-days

Don't Fucking Blame Me

etc., etc..............

So Fucking What

[Jim R]

Sunday

"Sunday"? What tune is that? "Come Sunday"? "Never On A Sunday"? If it's the latter, I'm with you!

SUNDAY

(Ned Miller - Jule Styne - Bennie Krueger - Chester Conn)

« © '56 Feist Catalog, ASCAP »

(I'll see you Sunday)

I'm blue every Monday thinking over Sunday

That one day when I'm with you

It seems that I sigh all day Tuesday I cry all day Wednesday

Oh my how I long for you

And then comes Thursday gee it's long and it never goes by

Friday makes me feel like I'm gonna die

But after payday is my fun day I shine all day Sunday

That one day that I'm with you

[ sax - guitar ]

And then comes Thursday...

[spinlps]

Misty

The only version I can tolerate lately is Dianne Reeves' version... and only b/c it's makes a brief appearance in her version of The Nearness of You.

[Jim R]

And I have a theory that Coltrane only recorded "My Favorite Things" to prove that he could make any smoltzy showtune hip and everyone mistakenly took that as a sign that My Favorite Things was actually a hip tune. Coltrane can pull it off. No one else can or should try. Everyone just cut it out.

No doubt about it.

I got into it with somebody at AAJ awhile back on this same thing. I'll admit that the lyrics to MFT might seem a little schmaltzy by today's standards, but the music is class all the way- just what you'd expect from the great Richard Rodgers. So, I disagree. I think Trane (and Miles, who also dug Rodgers) had taste.

[frank m]

Green Dolphin Street. And I am restraining an overwhelming internal pressure to curse. Here it comes

FFFFFFFFFF-!

[Guest]

I got into it with somebody at AAJ awhile back on this same thing. I'll admit that the lyrics to MFT might seem a little schmaltzy by today's standards, but the music is class all the way- just what you'd expect from the great Richard Rodgers. So, I disagree. I think Trane (and Miles, who also dug Rodgers) had taste.

Oh, you're one of them. Cut it out.

I think Trane (and Miles, who also dug Rodgers) had taste.

I do agree that Trane, Miles and Richard Rogers all had taste in addition to talent. They all 3 did things that I found distasteful, though.

Hey, I have to take every hanging curveball opportunity i get to mention that I lived next door to Richard Roger's composer grandson briefly a few years ago. Great guy and quite respected in his own right as a composer. He told me he used to be a bassist, but wasn't any good...he played my bass...he was good.

[Uncle Skid]

Well, I dig Autumn Leaves, fucking or not! The chord changes are so cool -- from a theoretical point-of-view, anyway.

I was going to add "Sweet and Lovely" to the list of overdone standards, but then I went back and played every version of that song I have in my collection:

I think it was the Cecil Taylor version that made me change my mind, or maybe it was Monk, or ...

[JSngry]

I've yet to meet a tired standard that Darlene Edwards couldn't revitalize.

[Jim R]

Oh, you're one of them. Cut it out.

Well, I set myself up for that one.

I do agree that Trane, Miles and Richard Rogers all had taste in addition to talent. They all 3 did things that I found distasteful, though.

I suppose I'd have to agree with that.

[Guest]

Well, I dig Autumn Leaves

Every time I am sure that I hate it, I hear a really good version. It's not the song's fault, it just gets ruined by jazz workshops, the real book and Jamey Aebersold records and the bands they produce.

[7/4]

And I have a theory that Coltrane only recorded "My Favorite Things" to prove that he could make any smoltzy showtune hip and everyone mistakenly took that as a sign that My Favorite Things was actually a hip tune. Coltrane can pull it off. No one else can or should try. Everyone just cut it out.

No doubt about it.

I got into it with somebody at AAJ awhile back on this same thing. I'll admit that the lyrics to MFT might seem a little schmaltzy by today's standards, but the music is class all the way- just what you'd expect from the great Richard Rodgers. So, I disagree. I think Trane (and Miles, who also dug Rodgers) had taste.

Yeah, but they could pull it off.

[Jim R]

And I have a theory that Coltrane only recorded "My Favorite Things" to prove that he could make any smoltzy showtune hip and everyone mistakenly took that as a sign that My Favorite Things was actually a hip tune. Coltrane can pull it off. No one else can or should try. Everyone just cut it out.

No doubt about it.

I got into it with somebody at AAJ awhile back on this same thing. I'll admit that the lyrics to MFT might seem a little schmaltzy by today's standards, but the music is class all the way- just what you'd expect from the great Richard Rodgers. So, I disagree. I think Trane (and Miles, who also dug Rodgers) had taste.

Yeah, but they could pull it off.

Yeah... but in this case I'd say there wasn't that much to "pull off". Just my opinion regarding MFT.

Basically, the whole "argument" at AAJ revolved around the idea that since jazz artists had always drawn from the well of pop music, show tunes, etc, that they should be just as able to do so today. I'm not saying that there's nothing of value being written anymore for pop consumption, but I think the well is shallower than it used to be, and I don't see (hear) too many Richard Rodgers (Rodgerses?) around today. That be all I be sayin'.

[Jim Alfredson]

Most pop music today is built around a four bar vamp repeated ad nauseum and no real melodic content, so I would have to agree with you that there isn't much that can be turned into a decent jazz standard these days.

[GA Russell]

Sunday

"Sunday"? What tune is that? "Come Sunday"? "Never On A Sunday"? If it's the latter, I'm with you!

SUNDAY

(Ned Miller - Jule Styne - Bennie Krueger - Chester Conn)

« © '56 Feist Catalog, ASCAP »

(I'll see you Sunday)

I'm blue every Monday thinking over Sunday

That one day when I'm with you

It seems that I sigh all day Tuesday I cry all day Wednesday

Oh my how I long for you

And then comes Thursday gee it's long and it never goes by

Friday makes me feel like I'm gonna die

But after payday is my fun day I shine all day Sunday

That one day that I'm with you

[ sax - guitar ]

And then comes Thursday...

Thanks for that Jim! My favorite recording of Sunday is The Four Freshmen's. I'm surprised that it was mentioned initially, because there's no way I've heard it enough times to be sick of it, regardless of its merit.

[Alexander Hawkins]

And I have a theory that Coltrane only recorded "My Favorite Things" to prove that he could make any smoltzy showtune hip and everyone mistakenly took that as a sign that My Favorite Things was actually a hip tune. Coltrane can pull it off. No one else can or should try. Everyone just cut it out.

No doubt about it.

I got into it with somebody at AAJ awhile back on this same thing. I'll admit that the lyrics to MFT might seem a little schmaltzy by today's standards, but the music is class all the way- just what you'd expect from the great Richard Rodgers. So, I disagree. I think Trane (and Miles, who also dug Rodgers) had taste.

Yeah, but they could pull it off.

John Gilmore MORE than pulled it off.

As for 'Someday My Prince Will Come' - check out Marshell Allen blowing it apart with Sun Ra on 'Second Star to the Right'. Great performance.

[Guest]

[As for 'Someday My Prince Will Come' - check out Marshell Allen blowing it apart with Sun Ra on 'Second Star to the Right'. Great performance.

Doesn't really change my intense hatred of Disney's move towards world domination. Did anyone else watch that World Series parade? Pure evil, I tell you.

Troy

Patron Saint of Petty Causes