airto and flora and related...

[Guest akanalog]

do people here enjoy airto's albums. how about those of his wife, flora purim?

how about hermeto pascoal or egberto gismonti or opa?

i have been trying to get into a lot of this stuff but it mostly isn't working for me.

i am not sure why. well the gismonti stuff i have heard gets into too much of an ECM thing, with acoustic guitars and cellos rather than percussion. so that just isn't my thing.

but most every airto album i see from musics fertile period (late 60s-mid 70s) looks great but ends up sounding mediocre to me. except "fingers". that is a good album.

and speaking of fingers, i checked out the opa albums (band composed of the "fingers" rhythm section). and their albums are not so great. decent but a bit cheesy.

i think a main problem i can point to on airto and opa and also flora albums is...i think there have been too many attempts to americanize the music. the main way this comes out is the use of rockin' electric guitar. which is usually played by david amaro. to me he ruins many of these albums.

i guess the flora albums are supposed to be commercial so for what they are, it is ok. i mean "stories to tell" even ends with sort of an improv jam thing with her and george duke and miroslav vitous and i think airto on drums, which isn't is cool as it sounds, but still works for me.

what about azymuth? they are awesome but it is just unfortunate the came around in the late 70s so most of their work is from the 80s where most everything is cheesy. but you can hear that if they had been around a bit earlier they would have been awesome. and some of their stuff is still awesome. just a great talented original sounding trio. "outuburo" is my favorite, though i don't think it has been on CD yet.

so anyway, do people like this brazillian sort of americanized fusion?

but right now i am listening to the airto album "identity". it's blah. airto's CTI debut album is actually pretty good. but again-it is sort of neither here or there. i guess i just always expected him to be less commercial. though then i think about chick corea must not have found them commercial as he subbed them out of return to forever for a more rocking teenage combo to make scientology bucks.

[Guest akanalog]

dom um ramao-i feel the same way too. so commercial sounding. short tracks and a shiny veneer.

i guess american labels didn't know how to market these guys.

[Guest akanalog]

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...=12586&hl=airto

a short lived topic i started re: david amaro, acually.

[jazzbo]

I know what you mean re: Flora and Airto. I like the two as sidepersons better, separately or together. I like the most recent of the Flora and Airto albums a lot, much more than most of the earliest ones. Though I must point out two early ones I think are excellent:

Airto: Mistaken Identity

Flora: 500 Miles High

These were different than the others and I really dig them.

I dig Egmonti and Pascoal though. .. I like a lot of their albums. I need to get more Pascoal albums in time. . . .

[Guest akanalog]

is "mistaken identity" the same as "identity"? the one with herbie hancock and a little wayne shorter on it?

"500 miles..." is ok. for some reason, though i like live music, those live at montreux discs never work for me.

[JSngry]

I've never heard an overtly "commercial" Hermeto album in my life. That guy's too damn nuts to be commercial even if he wanted to be.

As for the rest of it, yeah, there's definitely a "veneer" of one kind or another on a lot of it, but how much that bugs me depends on the degree that that veneer is designed to appeal to a broader market and how much of it is a legitimate attempt to bring one "flavor" into legitimate contact/interaction with another/others.

[.:.impossible]

I have had similar experiences with this music akanalog. I don't know if this is the type of music you are looking for, but I used to listen to this Airto recording alot.

The Other Side of This

CD 1992 Rykodisc

Produced by

Mickey Hart

1. Endless Cycle

(Moreira)

2. Tumbleweed

(Moreira)

3. Back Streets of Havana

(Trad.)

4. Healing Sounds

(Verna Yater)

5. The Underwater People

(Moreira)

6. Old Man's Song

(Moreira)

7. Hey Ya

(Moreira)

8. When Angels Cry

(Purim)

9. Dom-Um

[A Good Friend]

(Moreira-Hussain)

10. Street Reunion

(Trad.)

11. Mirror of The Past

(Moreira)

12. Sedonia's Circle

(Cahill-Barkley-Blain-Clark-Holmer-Martino-Ross-Toms)

13. Terra E Mar

(A.Moreira-Hart-D.Moreira)

Airto Moreira, Flora Purim,

Amrita Blain, Babatunde Olatunji,

Caryl Ohrbach, Cheryl McEnaney,

Diana Booker, Dr.Verna Yater,

Frank Colon, Giovanni Hidalgo,

Jana Holmer, Justine Toms,

K.C.Ross, Kitaro,

Leah Martino, Margaret Barkely,

Margie Clark, Mickey Hart,

Rose Solomon, Sedonia Cahill,

T.H.'Vikku' Vinayakram,

Zakir Hussain

[jazzbo]

Yes, I guess I was mistaken, "Identity" is the one. I really think that one is one of his very best.

Edited January 2, 2006 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

Homeless and Life After That. . . I really like these two cds from 2000 and 2003. Not trying to be anything other than "Airto Music."

Those two Buddha lps with Hermeto Pascoal are also excellent.

I guess that I like the Airto stuff more than you. . . . He's an oddball.

[jazzbo]

This is a great one in my opinion. I think Flora is coming even further into her own the last five years or so.

[jazzbo]

Another fine one in my opinion.

[BFrank]

In the 70's I was into them a lot. "Fingers" was definitely my favorite of Airto's. Another CTI album "Free" has some decent stuff on it, too.

I still have 2 Opa albums but never listen to them. I guess that says something.

I still like the early Flora albums. "Butterfly Dreams" definitely holds up for me. Maybe it's the Joe Henderson presence. All of the Milestone albums have some interesting things, actually. She got sidetracked when she signed with Warners and became even more commercial, although "Nothing Will Be As It Was Tomorrow" is worth checking out.

What really got me into them were the first 2 "Return to Forever" albums, though - S/T and "Light as a Feather". Those still hold their interest and sound contemporary today - 30 years later.

[Mr. Gone]

but right now i am listening to the airto album "identity". it's blah.

As blah as these "I don't like it, do you like it?" discussions?

[Guest akanalog]

mr. gone, as you are a master of latin, how about you "aut disce aut discede".

[Mr. Gone]

mr. gone, as you are a master of latin, how about you "aut disce aut discede".

What can one learn in this thread?

[Guest akanalog]

i learned how other people who might actually have been there when this music was first coming out might have reacted/felt about it and have found out in general what other peoples opinions of this brazilian fusion music are.

the music discussed here is a weird mix of exoticness and commerciality so it is interesting to find what people think regarding it. are they attracted to the exoticness or turned off by the shiny production touches? at least to me, a lot of it is a weird mishmash and doesn't always work but i have suspected the music is better than i give it credit for.

i also learned what flora and airto albums jazzbo likes which is a good thing to me since i respect his tastes and will now check out the albums in question under a new light.

i also learned you are an antagonistical prick though i guess this is not a surprise considering your past posts. thank you for participating in this thread!

and perhaps by throwing azymuth's name out there someone will check them out since i think they are an underrated though fairly cheesy brazilian fusion band not often discussed here.

i guess i am lucky other posters did not find the thread as worthless as you did so i got some responses to this blah topic.

[JSngry]

I still like the early Flora albums. "Butterfly Dreams" definitely holds up for me. Maybe it's the Joe Henderson presence. All of the Milestone albums have some interesting things, actually.

I'll second that emotion. I'm particularly fond of Open Your Eyes You Can Fly.

[Guest akanalog]

yes i also enjoy "open your eyes...". again amaro is a bit overbearing, but the title track is a great tune.

i also like the gary burton version which is probably the funkiest thing ever put out on ECM!!!

[BFrank]

I still like the early Flora albums. "Butterfly Dreams" definitely holds up for me. Maybe it's the Joe Henderson presence. All of the Milestone albums have some interesting things, actually.

I'll second that emotion. I'm particularly fond of Open Your Eyes You Can Fly.

I LOVED Open Your Eyes You Can Fly when it first came out. I think it was her first album after spending some time in prison for a drug charge. I'm afraid to listen to it much now, as I think its production is a little dated sounding.

[mikeweil]

Yes, I guess I was mistaken, "Identity" is the one. I really think that one is one of his very best.

I think this was his greatest achievement. I like the follow-up on Arista, Promises of The Sun, too - the band has a nice groove.

That type of groove right in the middle between fusion and traditional Brazilian was a new thing back then, and I actually like it, but it may not be everyone's cup of tea - I don't view it as just "commercialized. They wanted to try something new after playing bossa nova for ten years.

Have you listened to Airto's very first US LPs, Seeds On The Ground - I can't remember the title of the second - they were on Skye, re-released very soon by Buddah. Airto, Flora, Hermeto, Sivuca and Ron Carter - they are worth a try.

On everything after the two Arista LPs, I find one third great and the remainder bland. Same goes for the live gigs I attended - three of them over the years - but his natural showmanship overplays that easily.

The Brazilian's definition of "commercial" certainly are different - but I see what you mean when you mention the Dom Um Romao records. But this isn't jazz, for one .....

Hermeto is in a realm of his own, a genius. If there is an un-commercial Brazilian musician, it's Hermeto!

Egberto Gismonti - well I think he drifted more and more towards a modern classical tradition in the wake of Heitor Villa-Lobos' chamber music - when you listen to these two side by side it makes sense.

[Joe]

I am a big fan of the first two Airto LPs, which I believe were issued on Buddha. Can be found paired on one CD (if you look hard enough), entitled SEEDS ON THE GROUND. Much more organic than later productions, with both Hermeto Pascoal and I think Sivuca also part of the ensembles. Ron Carter holds down the bass, and, well, you get good Ron Carter on these dates.

"O Galho da Roseira" is a particular highlight (for me).

[Guest akanalog]

i have the two buddahs on the one CD deal and they are ok.

i like the first set on the disc better.

the second-the songs are too short except the longer freak out song which has a lot of shaking and rattling but not much else. the first set is good though and i do agree this music is much more organic sounding.

[Guest akanalog]

a good one is raul de souza's "colors".

this should be in the before OJCs go away thread...

from 1974 i think. richard davis and jack dejohnette in the rhythm section...cannonball adderly visiting to play on a few tunes...good stuff.

a nice long version of "crystal silence". i think airto produced the whole thing but the brazilian influence is pretty subdued.

[BFrank]

I have the 2 Buddhas on a 2-fer LP set called: "The Essential...Airto featuring Flora Purim".

[JohnS]

There are one or two pleasant albums in the Airto discography. I'm not a fan of the recordings under his leadership, in fact most are an instant turn off, but 'Seeds on the Ground' an early effort on Buddah sticks in my mind as being a particularly attractive piece of music making. As a percussionist on numerous jazz albums he's okay.