Recent Down Loads And Additions From E - Music

[WorldB3]

I will be done with emusic next month. It looks like the way things are going with them dropping my dl's even more for next month and with the new album pricing I will get two albums a month for 12 bucks. I can do better just digging for used cds, I don't mind paying for mp3s when they are priced right but no thanks.

There are two things I want to grab that are o.o.p and expensive and then I am out. It was fun while it lasted.

[captainwrong]

I'm in until late October, but I have a hunch I'm leaving after then. The way this was changed over doesn't bode well for communication in the future and the combination of increased rates and album only pricing makes doing a subscription like eMusic's much less easy to take.

[John L]

I canceled yesterday. When I pressed the button to cancel the first time, they offered me a generous bonus package if I would stay. Maybe they are starting to get worried about all the cancellations?

I wrote them a letter a couple of weeks ago requesting a clarification of their situation. Are they raising prices because they couldn't make ends meet otherwise, and are planning to stick to the general model of favoring smaller labels to keep prices down, or are they raising prices just to finance the acquisition of Sony and other major labels? I told them that, in the former case, I would keep my membership. I got back the same stupid form letter that was mentioned above. Why did I waste my time on emusic?

[WD45]

I have found emusic to be a big source for my Indian classical downloads. Many of the tracks are licensed via a single label, Sare Gama. For reasons unkown, they have MANY of the performances broken out as single items, rather than as part of an album. Often the cuts are 15-30 mins in length, making them a good value, up until now.

Now, a single track would have been 1 credit. Now, that single track is 12 credits.

Here is my question - will labels like Sare Gama be getting a cut, or is this additional cut being used to subsidize the Sony deal?

[Soulstation1]

Holy smokes

They want over 200 DLs per stax box set

At 40 to 50 cents a DL it's cheaper to buy the sets

[RDK]

Why did I waste my time on emusic?

I certainly don't count my years on emusic a "waste." It was an amazing ride while it lasted and still may be a bargain for some people and for specific albums. But because of how I specifically used it as one of several music resources it will no longer be a priority even if I remain as a subscriber at the base level.

Case in point: while the 8-12 d/l minimum makes a lot of mp3 albums now cost about $3.20-4.80, I just purchased a bunch of OJCs at the Oldies sale for $5 each. No way are mp3s a bargain at that price point.

[randyhersom]

Ugh. I'm staying, but I'll soon downgrade to the minimum plan. If they plop the DIW catalog out there post haste, I may remain at the current plan. If they apply album pricing to Chronological Classics where I really want it, I may remain on current plan. But they made lots of things worse and not very many better. I hope it's better for the artists and indie labels. It's not for me. Only the ability to redownload past downloads justifies remaining at all. Naxos was a happy hunting ground before album pricing, now it's overpriced. I gues I should grab all the BIS classical I can while it's still track priced.

Edited July 6, 2009 by randyhersom

[randyhersom]

When you fall below 12, you use up your remaining downloads on tracks from an album you want to complete next month and are seemingly not penalized for completing the purchase in the following month.

Or you find some BIS classical, (or other track pricing holdouts) for now.

[captainwrong]

RE: Why I "wasted" my time on eMusic. Up until July 1, eMusic was a hell of a bargain. Not only that, but they had a great selection for the kind of things I was interested in. Also, they seemed to be the kind of company who had a lot going for them in creating loyalty (such as grandfathering in the lower rates for those of us who had them last time they went up.) I even knew the name of eMusic's CEO (David Pakman) because he seemed to be a bit more personally connected to the site's users.

When Pakman left, I had a hunch he was seeing some writing on the wall the rest of us weren't privy to yet and, sure enough, that's what seems to be happening. It's been fascinating watching how a company managed to piss off such a rabidly loyal user base in such a short period of time. eMusic had the kind of brand loyalty companies kill for and, I think it's pretty fair to say, they all but decimated it not just for enacting some radical changes, but by rolling them out very haphazardly and wrapping them in corporate speak and plain and simple bullshit and misleading statements that we longtime eMusic users weren't used to seeing from the company.

Anyway, I've wasted enough brainpower trying to figure this all out. I'm not mad at 'em. They owed me nothing and that's exactly what I got. I'm fascinated by how this all happened, but not interested enough to stick around to see how it pans out. Hope it equalls more money for the indie labels and artists I joined eMusic for in the first place, but I doubt it's going to.

[okierambler]

I'm gonna stick around just because I can still get a lot of stuff there cheaper than elsewhere. But, I agree, they've killed the magic. Its like going to your favorite CD store and finding that the friendly clerk (and walking jazz encyclopedia) has left and "the new guy" is some pompous jerk who follows you around to make sure you aren't shoplifting or something.

I already have most (but not all) of the Sony stuff I want on CD, I've pretty much mined out e-Music's back catalog, and I cleaned out the 50+ albums from my saved for later file when the "change" was announced in June; so my "demotion" from 200 to 100 credits a month will be just fine for snagging new releases, etc. (I still have a stash of those 100 for $30.00 "crack cards" that will help ease the pain in case they drop ECM, SteepleChase, HatHut, Blue Note/Verve, Savoy, etc. in the U.S.)

Also, I've started to check Amazon to see if I can get the eMusic "album only" tracks there for $0.99, then get the remaining tracks from eMusic (for $0.40 each in my case) and save a few bucks/credits. Some "album only" tracks are "album only" everywhere, but not as often as you might think. And the math doesn't work every time, but comparing prices between vendors is definitely in order.

Otherwise, I'm paying more attention to Amazon, LaLa, and the used jazz bins at the few remaining independent CD stores here.... snagged a couple of nice Blue Note CDs (Kurt Elling and Patricia Barber) for $16.00 plus tax yesterday as a matter of fact.

[Tom Storer]

If they are going to compete with iTunes they are also going to need to be quicker in getting things up - the new ECMs have been appearing at iTunes over the last couple of weeks - very slow to appear at e-music.

UK members get ECM?? I'm jealous! I thought UK was the same as eMusic Europe, which doesn't have ECM. Huh.

eMusic had the kind of brand loyalty companies kill for and, I think it's pretty fair to say, they all but decimated it not just for enacting some radical changes, but by rolling them out very haphazardly and wrapping them in corporate speak and plain and simple bullshit and misleading statements that we longtime eMusic users weren't used to seeing from the company.

Absolutely right. I'm going to stick with them, even after the new system hits eMusic Europe, which I'm sure it will soon, because come what may they're cheaper than the competition and I'm very far from exhausting their catalog, even after having spent months pumping tracks nonstop back in the days of unlimited downloads. But they screwed up big-time.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Tom Storer

[A Lark Ascending]

If they are going to compete with iTunes they are also going to need to be quicker in getting things up - the new ECMs have been appearing at iTunes over the last couple of weeks - very slow to appear at e-music.

UK members get ECM?? I'm jealous! I thought UK was the same as eMusic Europe, which doesn't have ECM. Huh.

Since late last summer they've been building up. Things like Jarrett's 'Yesterdays' is already up.

Some careless transfers though - Imust admit I download with trepidation.

[Niko]

I'm gonna stick around just because I can still get a lot of stuff there cheaper than elsewhere. But, I agree, they've killed the magic. Its like going to your favorite CD store and finding that the friendly clerk (and walking jazz encyclopedia) has left and "the new guy" is some pompous jerk who follows you around to make sure you aren't shoplifting or something.

at one of my two favorite used cd shops they just got a new guy who actually knows his jazz... you can already see it from prices which have gotten much more reasonable in both directions

[Hoppy T. Frog]

This may be why Emusic added Sony: They had no choice.

http://iodalliance.com/press.php?press_release_id=74#74

Sony Music Entertainment and IODA Partner to Create Leading Digital Distribution and Services Network for Independent Rights Holders

Partnership to Leverage Combined Global Online Retail Distribution Network And Complementary Technologies

New York, New York — July 1, 2009 — Sony Music Entertainment (SME) today announced that it has entered into a global partnership with IODA to create a new leading distribution and services network for independent rights holders. As part of the partnership, Sony Music has made a strategic investment in IODA, a leader in digital distribution, marketing, and technology solutions for the independent music industry. Additional terms of the deal were not disclosed.

This agreement underscores Sony Music's commitment to expanding its service capabilities to the independent label community. With its independent distribution subsidiary RED, Sony Music currently provides award winning sales and marketing services to independent labels and artists. IODA now brings its proven digital distribution platform for the independent sector into the Sony Music network. With distinct areas of expertise and market focus, RED and IODA will build on their complementary technologies and increase the scope of sales and promotional opportunities that each currently offers its existing and growing customer base worldwide. Both companies will also leverage the global marketing and financial strength of Sony Music to continue expanding their businesses and providing best in class service.

"Sony Music is committed to offering independent labels and distributors the most compelling package of distribution services in the industry," said Thomas Hesse, President, Global Digital Business, U.S. Sales and Corporate Strategy, Sony Music Entertainment. "IODA has proven it has the expertise and ability to lead the independent market with groundbreaking digital solutions. We look forward to collaborating with Kevin and his team on this strategic partnership to develop new and innovative ways to help our respective clients grow their businesses."

In just six years, IODA has emerged as a leader in digital distribution for the independent music and video community. With a catalog of almost two million tracks from thousands of labels from over 50 countries, IODA represents a diverse catalog of music spanning all styles, including rock, electronic, hip-hop, metal, punk, indie, world, latin, jazz and classical. IODA's robust systems for managing the technical complexities of digital distribution and marketing continue to set the standard for the way independent rights holders do business in the digital age.

"Sony really impressed us with their respect for, and understanding of the needs of the independent community," said Kevin Arnold, Founder and CEO of IODA. "We remain, as we always have, fully dedicated to helping independent content owners succeed in the digital world. This alliance will greatly enhance IODA's ability to continue delivering effective solutions for Independents."

[mjzee]

Yes, that makes sense. A lot of eMusic's offerings come from IODA. I'm sure they made them an offer they couldn't refuse. And I'll bet that on some level, Sony sees eMusic as a counterbalance to iTunes' near-dominance of the download industry - Sony needs to nurture the competition. They just want to make money at it too.

[mjzee]

There's an interesting aspect to how this could play out. IODA has licensed its songs to eMusic for many years. This says to me they were making money at the old rates. Sony examined IODA's books before it made its investment. The new eMusic rates affect all of IODA's music, including non-Sony titles. Sony will therefore be able to see whether they make more or less money under the new eMusic price structure. In other words, Sony may have a stake in ultimately having eMusic lower their new high prices.

[okierambler]

There's an interesting aspect to how this could play out. IODA has licensed its songs to eMusic for many years. This says to me they were making money at the old rates.

Unfortunately, eMusic wasn't making money at the old rates, which were "loss leaders" designed to attract and build a subscriber base. From what I understand, eMusic has actually been "broke" or operating at a loss for about five years.

From articles in the legitimate press (Billboard, Wall Street Journal, etc.) and a couple of postings from musicians who get royalties from eMusic sales, I understand eMusic pays the record companies something like $0.32** per download. Since I was paying $0.25 per download, eMusic lost $0.07 every time I downloaded a cut. Since I was on a 200 for $50.00 a month plan, I cost the company $14.00 a month! (200 x $0.32 = $64.00) Multiple that by several thousand "grandfathers" and it adds up to a sizable chuck of change.

(With my "demotion" to 100 for $40.00, I actually "make" the company a $6.00 monthly net profit. That's not unreasonable.)

From what I understand, eMusic was counting on the loses from "heavy users" being off-set by subscribers who didn't use all their downloads each month. Its called the "health club membership" model where the clubs make their money from people who sign up and pay their monthly dues, but never (or rarely) come in to work out. I suspect that, for eMusic, that model hasn't worked out very well.

I have also read that eMusic decided to raise prices for the "grandfathers" last year, long before the Sony deal came up. They really bungled the roll-out, especially since they misrepresented it as being tied to the Sony deal. I think this would be a great case study in "how not to do it" for someone working on their MBA or an advanced marketing degree.

** That's about half what Amazon and iTunes pay.

Edited July 13, 2009 by okierambler

[mjzee]

Thanks for the post, okierambler. As I'm sure you're aware, I wasn't referring to eMusic's making a profit in my sentence you quoted, but rather IODA. To paraphrase what I said in an earlier posting in this thread, while eMusic may have paid artists half of what iTunes or Amazon pays, it's very possible the artist earned more through eMusic in the long run (because of people downloading tracks because "it's so cheap, why not?", when they wouldn't have purchased these tracks otherwise). For example, look at ECM - they seem happy to offer their titles on eMusic in Europe, when they've been available on iTunes and Amazon for awhile.

As for eMusic's operating at a loss, most new online business ventures plan to operate at a loss for the first 5 years, to build a customer base. Twitter can't even figure out how they're going to make money.

[okierambler]

Thanks for the clarification, mizee. My point was that after paying its vendors (IODA and other distributors/record companies), eMusic was losing money or just breaking even. That's what the former president (CEO?) who left last year said in several interviews. And you're right, five years of loses is not unusual for any start up business. But, I believe eMusic has been around for about ten years (in one form or another). At some point you have to go into the black or the investors back out. (I've experienced this first hand, its not fun when the banks pull the plug.)

I agree, the royalties should add up faster when buying is done at volume. But that has to be balanced out with the retailer's need to make a profit. Maybe having Sony (and, I'm sure, the other "Big Three" in the future) on board will give them the bottom line boost they need through "bulk" sales of mass market music. Hopefully, that will negate the need for more price hikes in the near future. And, if they're making a profit, maybe they can afford to do some serious market research before making "big" changes. Wow! That would really be something!

Right now, they're still a bargain - especially if you comparison shop and buy those "album only" cuts from Amazon or LaLa (when the math works in your favor).

And, personally, I think eMusic needs to give us "Yanks" a crack at ECM and those other labels now available on the other side of the pond. That new Steve Kuhn Trio with Joe Lovano is a dandy!

[Tom Storer]

Let me just reiterate that Europe doesn't get ECM--the UK does, but not the continent.

At least I think so. I'm in France and my eMusic page says "eMusic Europe": ECM is not available (with the inexplicable exception of Miroslav Vitous's "Universal Syncopations," where the label is given as ECM/Kontor). UK posters here, however, report getting ECM with their eMusic subscription.

And North America gets labels we don't get over here, too! I can't remember which ones but I know I've been frustrated by this in the past.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Tom Storer

[mjzee]

I don't think you and I disagree by much, okierambler. eMusic might still be "a bargain" compared with iTunes or Amazon, but only if you intended to buy those titles anyway. And my decision to quit is definitely informed by the fact that there's not that much more I need to download from them. That could change if they began carrying ECM in the U.S. - then I could see my 50 tracks for $20 (what they wanted to switch me to) buying me 6 - 7 albums a month. But I don't think they'll carry ECM as long as they're distributed by Universal in the US.

[edski]

James Blood Ulmer's "Odyssey" album is now available via iTunes ($8.) and Amazon ($10.). Was this recently re-released on CD? Or is this a positive sign that some previously OOP albums will see the light of day as digital downloads?

emusic has the Odyssey band reunion "Back in Time" which I enjoy a lot. Curious about "Free lancing" and "Black Rock" too.

[John L]

They really bungled the roll-out, especially since they misrepresented it as being tied to the Sony deal. I think this would be a great case study in "how not to do it" for someone working on their MBA or an advanced marketing degree.

That indeed appears to be the problem. If emusic would have answered my letter with what you wrote in your post, I would have kept my membership. I even spelled it out for them in the letter. I told them that I would keep my membership if they would only confirm to me in writing that they are doing this out of financial necessity, and will remain committed the smaller labels that are valued by customers like myself. They sent me back the stupid form letter that states quite plainly that they are doing this in order to afford Sony and other major labels. So I quit emusic.

Edited July 14, 2009 by John L

[Tom Storer]

They sent me back the stupid form letter

Rather predictably, I would think. They're probably getting many times more email complaints and queries in the wake of all this than they ever planned for, so I can imagine a few offices full of harassed wage slaves each with a backlog of hundreds of emails to clear out of the pipe. Their eyes glaze over, they glance very briefly and with little interest at the detailed critiques and nuanced requests for information, then they send the form letter and piss off customers looking for individual attention and respect. Meanwhile, management congratulates itself on not varying from the core message decided at some point by a confused committee. Communication is the name of the game!

[captainwrong]

I don't think you and I disagree by much, okierambler. eMusic might still be "a bargain" compared with iTunes or Amazon, but only if you intended to buy those titles anyway. And my decision to quit is definitely informed by the fact that there's not that much more I need to download from them. That could change if they began carrying ECM in the U.S. - then I could see my 50 tracks for $20 (what they wanted to switch me to) buying me 6 - 7 albums a month. But I don't think they'll carry ECM as long as they're distributed by Universal in the US.

Yeah, that's me too. I'd add to that eMusic may still be a bargain vs. iTunes/Amazon on some or most things, but the combination of new pricing and album only tracks means I have to do more homework rather than just hitting download. That combination means there are going to be many times when buying elsewhere, or even getting a used copy of the actual CD is going to be cheaper.