okierambler Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) There's an interesting aspect to how this could play out. IODA has licensed its songs to eMusic for many years. This says to me they were making money at the old rates. Unfortunately, eMusic wasn't making money at the old rates, which were "loss leaders" designed to attract and build a subscriber base. From what I understand, eMusic has actually been "broke" or operating at a loss for about five years. From articles in the legitimate press (Billboard, Wall Street Journal, etc.) and a couple of postings from musicians who get royalties from eMusic sales, I understand eMusic pays the record companies something like $0.32** per download. Since I was paying $0.25 per download, eMusic lost $0.07 every time I downloaded a cut. Since I was on a 200 for $50.00 a month plan, I cost the company $14.00 a month! (200 x $0.32 = $64.00) Multiple that by several thousand "grandfathers" and it adds up to a sizable chuck of change. (With my "demotion" to 100 for $40.00, I actually "make" the company a $6.00 monthly net profit. That's not unreasonable.) From what I understand, eMusic was counting on the loses from "heavy users" being off-set by subscribers who didn't use all their downloads each month. Its called the "health club membership" model where the clubs make their money from people who sign up and pay their monthly dues, but never (or rarely) come in to work out. I suspect that, for eMusic, that model hasn't worked out very well. I have also read that eMusic decided to raise prices for the "grandfathers" last year, long before the Sony deal came up. They really bungled the roll-out, especially since they misrepresented it as being tied to the Sony deal. I think this would be a great case study in "how not to do it" for someone working on their MBA or an advanced marketing degree. ** That's about half what Amazon and iTunes pay. Edited July 13, 2009 by okierambler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Thanks for the post, okierambler. As I'm sure you're aware, I wasn't referring to eMusic's making a profit in my sentence you quoted, but rather IODA. To paraphrase what I said in an earlier posting in this thread, while eMusic may have paid artists half of what iTunes or Amazon pays, it's very possible the artist earned more through eMusic in the long run (because of people downloading tracks because "it's so cheap, why not?", when they wouldn't have purchased these tracks otherwise). For example, look at ECM - they seem happy to offer their titles on eMusic in Europe, when they've been available on iTunes and Amazon for awhile. As for eMusic's operating at a loss, most new online business ventures plan to operate at a loss for the first 5 years, to build a customer base. Twitter can't even figure out how they're going to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okierambler Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Thanks for the clarification, mizee. My point was that after paying its vendors (IODA and other distributors/record companies), eMusic was losing money or just breaking even. That's what the former president (CEO?) who left last year said in several interviews. And you're right, five years of loses is not unusual for any start up business. But, I believe eMusic has been around for about ten years (in one form or another). At some point you have to go into the black or the investors back out. (I've experienced this first hand, its not fun when the banks pull the plug.) I agree, the royalties should add up faster when buying is done at volume. But that has to be balanced out with the retailer's need to make a profit. Maybe having Sony (and, I'm sure, the other "Big Three" in the future) on board will give them the bottom line boost they need through "bulk" sales of mass market music. Hopefully, that will negate the need for more price hikes in the near future. And, if they're making a profit, maybe they can afford to do some serious market research before making "big" changes. Wow! That would really be something! Right now, they're still a bargain - especially if you comparison shop and buy those "album only" cuts from Amazon or LaLa (when the math works in your favor). And, personally, I think eMusic needs to give us "Yanks" a crack at ECM and those other labels now available on the other side of the pond. That new Steve Kuhn Trio with Joe Lovano is a dandy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Storer Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Let me just reiterate that Europe doesn't get ECM--the UK does, but not the continent. At least I think so. I'm in France and my eMusic page says "eMusic Europe": ECM is not available (with the inexplicable exception of Miroslav Vitous's "Universal Syncopations," where the label is given as ECM/Kontor). UK posters here, however, report getting ECM with their eMusic subscription. And North America gets labels we don't get over here, too! I can't remember which ones but I know I've been frustrated by this in the past. Edited July 13, 2009 by Tom Storer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I don't think you and I disagree by much, okierambler. eMusic might still be "a bargain" compared with iTunes or Amazon, but only if you intended to buy those titles anyway. And my decision to quit is definitely informed by the fact that there's not that much more I need to download from them. That could change if they began carrying ECM in the U.S. - then I could see my 50 tracks for $20 (what they wanted to switch me to) buying me 6 - 7 albums a month. But I don't think they'll carry ECM as long as they're distributed by Universal in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edski Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 James Blood Ulmer's "Odyssey" album is now available via iTunes ($8.) and Amazon ($10.). Was this recently re-released on CD? Or is this a positive sign that some previously OOP albums will see the light of day as digital downloads? emusic has the Odyssey band reunion "Back in Time" which I enjoy a lot. Curious about "Free lancing" and "Black Rock" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) They really bungled the roll-out, especially since they misrepresented it as being tied to the Sony deal. I think this would be a great case study in "how not to do it" for someone working on their MBA or an advanced marketing degree. That indeed appears to be the problem. If emusic would have answered my letter with what you wrote in your post, I would have kept my membership. I even spelled it out for them in the letter. I told them that I would keep my membership if they would only confirm to me in writing that they are doing this out of financial necessity, and will remain committed the smaller labels that are valued by customers like myself. They sent me back the stupid form letter that states quite plainly that they are doing this in order to afford Sony and other major labels. So I quit emusic. Edited July 14, 2009 by John L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Storer Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 They sent me back the stupid form letter Rather predictably, I would think. They're probably getting many times more email complaints and queries in the wake of all this than they ever planned for, so I can imagine a few offices full of harassed wage slaves each with a backlog of hundreds of emails to clear out of the pipe. Their eyes glaze over, they glance very briefly and with little interest at the detailed critiques and nuanced requests for information, then they send the form letter and piss off customers looking for individual attention and respect. Meanwhile, management congratulates itself on not varying from the core message decided at some point by a confused committee. Communication is the name of the game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainwrong Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I don't think you and I disagree by much, okierambler. eMusic might still be "a bargain" compared with iTunes or Amazon, but only if you intended to buy those titles anyway. And my decision to quit is definitely informed by the fact that there's not that much more I need to download from them. That could change if they began carrying ECM in the U.S. - then I could see my 50 tracks for $20 (what they wanted to switch me to) buying me 6 - 7 albums a month. But I don't think they'll carry ECM as long as they're distributed by Universal in the US. Yeah, that's me too. I'd add to that eMusic may still be a bargain vs. iTunes/Amazon on some or most things, but the combination of new pricing and album only tracks means I have to do more homework rather than just hitting download. That combination means there are going to be many times when buying elsewhere, or even getting a used copy of the actual CD is going to be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yeah, the "album only" tracks are particularly lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okierambler Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yeah, I'd rather just hit download too. And I'm not defending the boneheaded way eMusic handled all this. I don't use that site because of the people there (all though I'm sure they're perfectly decent folks), but because I get to sample a lot of interesting music at what's still a "fairly" reasonable price. I spent more than 20 years as a professional journalist before changing careers. Facts are important to me. The only reason I jumped into this discussion was to try to clarify some points based on what I'd read in the business press. If eMusic has offended you to the point that you don't want to shop there anymore, that's your choice. Go in peace. If you're planning on staying, then use them wisely. I originally dropped into this forum to see what musical gems other jazz fans were digging up on eMusic. There are still plenty there to be uncovered. I wish we could get back to that. Have y'all heard this????? Misfiled under "Rew Gress," but a fine session never the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 June BOOBY BROOM – BOBBY BROOM PLAYS FOR MONK BOBBY SHEW – SALSA CALIENTE CHRISTIAN ROVER – LIVE IN CONCERT CLAUS RAIBLE – INTRODUCING THE EXCITING CLAUS RAIBLE TRIO DRED SCOTT TRIO – LIVE AT THE ROCKWOOD MUSIC HALL EARTTH, WIND & FIRE - HAT’S THE WAY OF THE WORLD ALIVE IN '75 ERIC DOLPHY WITH BOOKER LITTLE – AT THE FIVE SPO, VOL 2 RM FAST 3 - 3's COMPANY JOE CUBA - BANG! BANG! PUSH, PUSH, PUSH JOEY DeFRANCESCO - FINGER POPPIN' – CELEBRATING THE MUSIC OF HORACE SILVER JOHN COLTRANE – COLTRANE RM LONNIE GASPERINI ORGAN TRIO – NORTH BEACH BLUES MARK HOLLAND'S RHYTHM FORCE - ON THE RHODES THE BONGOLIAN – OUTER BONGOLIA THE JACKSONS – THE ESSENTIAL JACKSONS VA JALAPENO SOUND SYSTEM VOL. 2 PANAMA!2 LATIN SOUNDS, CUMBIA TROPICAL & Amp; CALYPSO FUNK ON THE ISTHMUS 1967-77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 http://www.emusic.com/artist/Iron-Maiden-M...d/12270078.html For Iron Maiden Fans Only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) http://www.emusic.com/album/Fast-3-3-s-Com...d/11474826.html Download ASAP Edited July 14, 2009 by Soulstation1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save0904 Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Don Cherry Live At Cafe Montmatre Vol. 3 2 Tracks ~50min music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy T. Frog Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 The real trick here is to find albums that maximize your credits. Some labels seem to have a one track=one download formula, which sucks when you want to download an album that has 22 tracks. However, I've noticed that Black Saint/Soul Note titles, just as an example, have a more reasonable pricing structure that an album will be a maximum of 12 credits (or whatever), no matter the number of tracks. I won't quit Emusic, mainly because I've got at least 300 albums in my want list, and more are being added all the time. I pity those who have run out of interesting looking albums. Try exploring a different genre, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Well, look what turned up in the jazz new releases! Straight to the unbelievable covers thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Anyone ever have problem with deleting a emusic file? Can't delete a folder with a single song for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) It all seems to gave gone very strange since they put in the new buttons. When I click to download an album I get a white screen. If I check album view nothing shows yet the credits have been subtracted. To get at the music I have to go through my downloads and find my way back to the original album page, rehit the button (which has now changed colour and promises it will cost me no credits), click a window telling me the number of re-downloads is limited and then everything starts whirring! After that it seems quicker - I no longer get the two tracks stalling and needing resuming. Oh, and it won't let me delete anything in the saved items section. They vanish but reappear on refreshing! Clearly lots of bugs in the system. Edited July 27, 2009 by Bev Stapleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save0904 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Shelly Manne Shelly Manne And His Men At The Blackhawk Volume 1-5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Shelly Manne Shelly Manne And His Men At The Blackhawk Volume 1-5 I too downloaded 2-5 after hearing the BBC programme (I already had 1). Marvellous music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 For those interested, Amazon today only (Sunday 8/2) has the download for Coltrane's Interstellar Space for $2.99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 For those interested, Amazon today only (Sunday 8/2) has the download for Coltrane's Interstellar Space for $2.99. I was just about to post the same thing (but wasn't sure where to do it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okierambler Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Pretty good haul: Baptiste Trotignon - "Share" Bud Powell - "A Portrait of Theolonious" Andy Sheppard - "Dancing Man & Woman" Bobby Broom - "Plays Monk" Louis Armstrong - "Plays W.C. Handy" Nina Simone - "Essential" (Volumes 1 & 2) Barb Jungr - "Every Grain of Sand" & "Just Like a Woman (Hymn to Nina)" Shakti with John McLaughlin - "Handful of Beauty" & "Natural Elements" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 JULY GEORGE BENSON – BODY TALK MILES DAVIS – COMPLETE BITCHES BREW SESSIONS MILES DAVIS – THE COMPLETE COLUMBIA STUDIO RECORDINGS OF THE MILES DAVIS QUINTET JANUARY 1965 TO JUNE 1968 (Discs 1-5) DON DIEGO – A NEW BEGINNING (FREE) LENA HORNE - STORMY WEATHER IRON MAIDEN – LIVE AFTER DEATH HORACE SILVER – SILVER’S BLUES SLY & THE FAMILY STONE – LIFE SLY & THE FAMILY STONE – GREATEST HITS (THANK YOU AND HOT TIME IN THE SUMMERTIME) MATT WILSON – THAT’S GONNA LEAVE A MARK (FREE) VA – KILL ROCK STARS SAMPLER 2009 (FREE) VA – ROCK THE BELLS SIX YEARS OF LIVE HIP-HOP (FREE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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