Gospel Music on Hyena Records

[Alexander]

Just got this today. Has anyone else heard it?

I realize that this is going to sound weird coming from me (although I've always listened to religiously inspired music) but this disc is FUCKING AMAZING!!!! Every track is a knock out. This is without question the best single disc gospel compilation money can buy. I especially LOVE "Oh Mary, Don't You Weep" by the Swan Silvertones. There were also very few overlaps with stuff I already have in my collection (the Mahalia Jackson and Soul Stirrers tracks) and since it seems to be all post-WWII material (the one flaw is the lack of liner notes and dates for the recordings) there is NO overlap with the "Goodbye Babylon" box set. Really incredible stuff. HIGHLY recommended for anyone who enjoys black music. Or music in general. Or breathing.

[Adam]

Wow, better than The Gospel Sound of Spirit Feel or those Jubilation! discs from Rhino?

[John L]

Interesting. Did Dorn really purchase the copyright to all of this stuff, which would appear to be from multiple labels?

[Jim Alfredson]

The obligatory CDUniverse link:

Various Artists - Gospel Music

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It's a very good compilation, as compilations go. If you only want a little bit of Gospel, this is the one to get.

I think I'd have been inclined to include some Pilgrim Travelers and the Supreme Angels cut isn't as good as some of their live stuff. No choir material; perhaps Dorn is saving the choirs for a subsequent release. I think there's nothing from Peacock/Songbird in the album - probably Universal wouldn't license anything. Close inspection indicates the material has all come from the present owners of Vee-Jay, Nashboro/Creed (who acquired Mahalia's Apollo material) and Hob/Gotham; one cut is from Savoy.

I've got about two thirds or three quarters of it already, so I shan't be buying it.

MG

[John L]

It's a very good compilation, as compilations go. If you only want a little bit of Gospel, this is the one to get.

I think I'd have been inclined to include some Pilgrim Travelers and the Supreme Angels cut isn't as good as some of their live stuff. No choir material; perhaps Dorn is saving the choirs for a subsequent release. I think there's nothing from Peacock/Songbird in the album - probably Universal wouldn't license anything. Close inspection indicates the material has all come from the present owners of Vee-Jay, Nashboro/Creed (who acquired Mahalia's Apollo material) and Hob/Gotham; one cut is from Savoy.

I've got about two thirds or three quarters of it already, so I shan't be buying it.

MG

There are also some cuts from Specialty (now Concord)

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It's a very good compilation, as compilations go. If you only want a little bit of Gospel, this is the one to get.

I think I'd have been inclined to include some Pilgrim Travelers and the Supreme Angels cut isn't as good as some of their live stuff. No choir material; perhaps Dorn is saving the choirs for a subsequent release. I think there's nothing from Peacock/Songbird in the album - probably Universal wouldn't license anything. Close inspection indicates the material has all come from the present owners of Vee-Jay, Nashboro/Creed (who acquired Mahalia's Apollo material) and Hob/Gotham; one cut is from Savoy.

I've got about two thirds or three quarters of it already, so I shan't be buying it.

MG

There are also some cuts from Specialty (now Concord)

Yes, I overlooked them.

MG

[JSngry]

No Peacock material whatsoever?

Then, great as this side may be, it's incomplete.

[Adam]

But Jim, it doesn't claim to be complete.

How can any one CD of anything be complete?

That said, do you have any recommendatiosn for Peacock gospel music?

The lack of notes is a real problem though.

[JSngry]

Yeah, I know. It's just that if something wants/hopes to be some sort of "ultimate"...

As for recs, I really don't think that Universal has done anything even remotely "good" with their holdings. A few very sparse compilations are all that I know of. There was a time when I could recommend hitting a few truckstops on the Interstate to find this stuff, but truckstops ain't what they used to be...

There is, however, this site: http://www.dovesong.com/MP3/MP3_BlackGospel.asp

But y'all didn't hear it from me, ok?

[Alexander]

So has anyone besides me actually LISTENED to this set (yeah, I'm talking to you Clem)? The music is amazing. It doesn't claim to be definintive in any way. It is simply what it is: A fantastic single disc compliation of some wonderful sounds. I certainly am not considering it the "last word" on Gospel music. I'm also not saying, "Well, I've got the Hyena disc...I'm done!" I've got the "Goodbye Babylon" set. I've got several discs of the Soul Stirrers. I've got Mahalia... Is there more I don't have? Good lord, yes. Am I interested in feedback (like Jim's) that might point me to some good stuff? Hell yes. But for fuck's sake, Clem, do ya have to be such a wet blanket? No one's asking for your permission or approval. Trust me. I just wanted to pass on some info on a good disc I picked up.

Can I get a witness?

[JSngry]

Am I interested in feedback (like Jim's) that might point me to some good stuff? Hell yes.

Again - http://www.dovesong.com/MP3/MP3_BlackGospel.asp

Have fun!

[Adam]

I went to Amoeba tonight to look at what there might be. There were several inexpensive Peacock compilations, each with only 10 songs on each. I didn't bite those tonight. But I did buy this Hyena disc. Haven't listened to it yet.

But there sure are a lot of Document discs to go through.

I have several of the Soecialty discs, but lord there is a lot to learn.

When you have a chance Clem, please throw us the titles of 3 or 4 discs that might be good to check out. They can each be one group, as opposed to comps.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

uh, dude... i've been listening to this stuff for just shy of twenty years; the only name on their that doesn't hit me right off is Slim & the Supreme Angels. when i have time i WILL guide you to broader & deeper waters. as stated, my point is not to discourage exploration here but it's hard to see the need for a shoddily done broad (broad--ish anyway) compilation... check the Roots & Rhythm website for a decent start re: what's more/less available, then head south. (in Athens, Ga. for example there's still a gospel & soul(ish) radio statiom 880 am, tho' it's better anthropology than hot music per se.)

xxc

I do like the Supreme Angels - the material they did at Nashboro was very good indeed, though their mostly live album was the best of the lot. Like you, I've been listening to gospel music for decades and have about 300 albums. The field is as wide as jazz but under-explored. I have little pre-war stuff; am just getting into Document records; in the past few weeks have bought both of their Rev J C Burnett CDs and the first 4 vols of Rev J M Gates complete recordings.

Prime recommendations for people who want to look a little deeper:

Best of the Pilgrim Travelers - Specialty

The Soul Stirrers - Shine on me - Specialty (pre-Sam Cooke material)

Best of Dorothy Love Coates & the Original Gospel Harmonettes - Specialty

(Bet this stuff is the first to go when Concord get fed up with maintaining the huge Fantasy catalogue.)

Rev James Moore - Live in Detroit - Malaco

The Georgia Mass Choir - They that wait - Savoy

Rev James Cleveland & the Angelic Choir - Peace be still - Savoy

And for Detroit fans, as well as Moore, there's Donald Vails' Choraleers - a good bit of material on Savoy.

MG

[John L]

I went to Amoeba tonight to look at what there might be. There were several inexpensive Peacock compilations, each with only 10 songs on each. I didn't bite those tonight. But I did buy this Hyena disc. Haven't listened to it yet.

But there sure are a lot of Document discs to go through.

I have several of the Soecialty discs, but lord there is a lot to learn.

When you have a chance Clem, please throw us the titles of 3 or 4 discs that might be good to check out. They can each be one group, as opposed to comps.

As far as CDs are concerned, the Peacock gospel catalog is almost entirely dead in the water. (But certaintly make sure and buy the budget "Best of" discs on MCA of the Sensational Nightingales and the Blind Boys of Mississippi) The Savoy catalog is not in much better shape. There is the source that Jim S. mentioned, as well as this source, although here we are talking rather expensive and poorly remastered CDRs: http://www.pewburner.com/

In addition to the Specialty discs (and who knows how much longer Concord will make them available), Collectables has done a good job with the Vee Jay catalog. On Vee Jay, especially make sure and pick up the Swan Silvertones, Blind Boys of Mississippi, the Staple Singers, the Harmonizing Four, the Caravans, and the first two-fer of the Highway QCs. Savoy has put out a great disc on the Davis Sisters, as has Heritage (no duplication). Acrobat records did a great service in releasing some of the greatest gospel records ever make last year on a double CD: The Spirit of Memphis: Happy in the Service of the Lord (the King recordings).

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

Edited March 28, 2006 by John L

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I wouldn't say Savoy's catalogue is dead in the water. A huge amount of the material is still available. After over 60 years, Savoy is still THE major Gospel label.

http://www.malaco.com/Catalog/Gospel/list.php

MG

[John L]

I wouldn't say Savoy's catalogue is dead in the water. A huge amount of the material is still available. After over 60 years, Savoy is still THE major Gospel label.

http://www.malaco.com/Catalog/Gospel/list.php

MG

I said that, as far as CDs are concerned, the Peacock catalogue was almost dead in the water and the Savoy catalog is not in much better shape. I would say that your link is a testimony to that. Almost everything available from the golden age is cassette tape only.

Actually, I do stand corrected, however. The Japanese have released a good share of golden age gospel Savoy recordings on CD. On the other hand, other than a few nice "Best of" collections for the Davis Sisters and Roberta Martin Singers, Malaco has done next to nothing for getting the Savoy catalog on CD.

Edited March 28, 2006 by John L

[AllenLowe]

there's lots of good comps - any Document, as has been mentioned - particularly, and his is important, the Document Guitar Evangelist CD with Utah Smith who, in my opinion, invented rock and roll (see my maybe-to-be-published history of rock and roll about this strain); Blind Mamie Forehand; The original Blind Boys of Mississippi; find anything with Bosie Sturdivant, who recorded for the Library of Congress in the 1930s; pick up the Document early quartet records (from ca. 1921 onwards; also the Dinwiddie stuff from the turn of the century); and don't forget the recording which Dick Spotswood discovered, one of the earliest black recordings, Poor Mourner, ca. 1897: Cousins and DeMoss with banjo accompaniment which represents, as Spottswood has ssaid, "gospel written for the minstrel stage," an important hybrid -

Edited March 28, 2006 by AllenLowe

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I wouldn't say Savoy's catalogue is dead in the water. A huge amount of the material is still available. After over 60 years, Savoy is still THE major Gospel label.

http://www.malaco.com/Catalog/Gospel/list.php

MG

I said that, as far as CDs are concerned, the Peacock catalogue was almost dead in the water and the Savoy catalog is not in much better shape. I would say that your link is a testimony to that. Almost everything available from the golden age is cassette tape only.

Actually, I do stand corrected, however. The Japanese have released a good share of golden age gospel Savoy recordings on CD. On the other hand, other than a few nice "Best of" collections for the Davis Sisters and Roberta Martin Singers, Malaco has done next to nothing for getting the Savoy catalog on CD.

That's just looking at one style of Gospel music. On choirs, Savoy (and Malaco) are wonderful. For example, Savoy traces the whole development of the modern choir movement from its early beginnings with Rev James Cleveland and the Angelic Choir in the early 1960s right up to modern choirs like the wonderful Georgia Mass Choir. And a lot of that material is available and on CD.

Malaco/Savoy is not a company that exists to preserve a heritage, like Document; the company is in the business of making records NOW for its own niche market, which it used to describe as middle-aged African Americans in the South, whose needs weren't being addressed by any other company. In the 1990s, the company usually accounted for about a third of all the albums on the Gospel charts. At present, they seem to have about a third of the cuts on the most played Gospel radio chart. With the company's focus so clearly on today's musical needs, the fact that such a large proportion of that heritage is still available (albeit on K7) can only be regarded as a plus.

MG

[John L]

Understood. Malaco (Savoy) will release only what it thinks it can make a good profit on. Universal (Peacock) has the same attitude. I would have no problem with that as long as these companies would give up the copyrights the material that they don't want to release so that collector lables could release it for them. As far as I am concerned, they are holding a good part of the American musical heritage hostage. It is not fair to the listening public and (especially) the artists who deserve to be better known.

Look at the list of music that I posted for the Pewburner CDRs. Almost all of it is not in print. That is simply a crime.

Edited March 28, 2006 by John L

[JSngry]

Pewburner is on my shit list. A friend ordered some stuff from them, and when he tried to make backup copies, he found out that it was copy-protected. That takes a lot of gall, copy-protecting a bootleg!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Understood. Malaco (Savoy) will release only what it thinks it can make a good profit on. Universal (Peacock) has the same attitude. I would have no problem with that as long as these companies would give up the copyrights the material that they don't want to release so that collector lables could release it for them. As far as I am concerned, they are holding a good part of the American musical heritage hostage. It is not fair to the listening public and (especially) the artists who deserve to be better known.

Look at the list of music that I posted for the Pewburner CDRs. Almost all of it is not in print. That is simply a crime.

I understand what you're saying but, in terms of looking after the heritage of its recordings, there's no company I know of except Delmark and ECM that doesn't or hasn't deleted some of its material. That doesn't mean that, at some point or other, the company won't reissue it. They'd be somewhat more likely to, I feel, if people were to tell them they'd rather like to buy the stuff than if they were to remain silent.

For my part, I still haven't finished getting all the James Cleveland, Bishop Jeff Banks, Dr Charles G Hayes and Donald Vails Choraleers CDs I want yet (but there are 85 OJCs on my "to buy before Concord slash them" list).

MG

[Adam]

uh, dude... i've been listening to this stuff for just shy of twenty years; the only name on their that doesn't hit me right off is Slim & the Supreme Angels. when i have time i WILL guide you to broader & deeper waters. as stated, my point is not to discourage exploration here but it's hard to see the need for a shoddily done broad (broad--ish anyway) compilation... check the Roots & Rhythm website for a decent start re: what's more/less available, then head south. (in Athens, Ga. for example there's still a gospel & soul(ish) radio statiom 880 am, tho' it's better anthropology than hot music per se.)

xxc

I do like the Supreme Angels - the material they did at Nashboro was very good indeed, though their mostly live album was the best of the lot. Like you, I've been listening to gospel music for decades and have about 300 albums. The field is as wide as jazz but under-explored. I have little pre-war stuff; am just getting into Document records; in the past few weeks have bought both of their Rev J C Burnett CDs and the first 4 vols of Rev J M Gates complete recordings.

Prime recommendations for people who want to look a little deeper:

Best of the Pilgrim Travelers - Specialty

The Soul Stirrers - Shine on me - Specialty (pre-Sam Cooke material)

Best of Dorothy Love Coates & the Original Gospel Harmonettes - Specialty

(Bet this stuff is the first to go when Concord get fed up with maintaining the huge Fantasy catalogue.)

Rev James Moore - Live in Detroit - Malaco

The Georgia Mass Choir - They that wait - Savoy

Rev James Cleveland & the Angelic Choir - Peace be still - Savoy

And for Detroit fans, as well as Moore, there's Donald Vails' Choraleers - a good bit of material on Savoy.

MG

Thank you Mag Goldberg, Allen Lowe, Jim, John L for the suggestions.

I do already have all three of those Specialty discs that you list above, along with :

Greatest Gospel Gems (Specialty)

Swan Silvertones - Love Lifted Me/My Rock (Specialty)

The original Blind Boys of Alabama - Oh Lord, Stand By Me/Marching Up to Zion (Specialty)

Sam Cook with the Soul Stirrers (Specialty)

Mahalia Jackson - Recorded Live in Europe (Columbia); The Apollo Sessions (Pair Records Portraits)

The Great Gospel Women (Shanachie)

Jubilation - vol. 1 & 2 (Rhino)

Marion Williams - Through Many Dangers (Shanachie)

The Best of the Five Blind Boys of Mississippi - Millennnium Collection (MCA)

The Blind Boys of Alabama - Spirit of the Century (Real World)

Sweet Honey in the Rock - Still on the Journey (Earthbeat!)

The Gospel Sound (Columbia)

The Abyssinian Baptist Gospel Choir - Shakin' the Rafters (Columbia)

Sanctified Jug Bands (1928-1930) - (Document)

American Primitive Vol. 1 - Raw Pre-War Gospel (Revenant)

So as you can see, lots of comps, along with Specialty material, and nothing from Peacock or Malaco or Savoy. I'm looking forward to these new discoveries.

[Adam]

Oh, here are the first half of Joel Dorn's liner notes, to explain things:

"I love liner notes. Love to read 'em, love to write 'em. Sadly, fewer and fewer albums these days have liner notes. What you get now are a couple of pictures, maybe a lyric or two and the credits. But any album I have anything to do with is gonna have liner notes. Except this one.

"If there's one thing this album doesn't need, it's any words of explanation. This music comes from the epicenter of the core of what Black American Music is all about. When you listen to Gospel Music, I guarantee that without even knowing it's doing it, your brain will write its own liner notes. That's how perful this music is.

"The only thing this album needs is your ears and your heart.

"Keep a Light in the Window,

Joel Dorn, Fall 2005"

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Oh, here are the first half of Joel Dorn's liner notes, to explain things:

"I love liner notes. Love to read 'em, love to write 'em. Sadly, fewer and fewer albums these days have liner notes. What you get now are a couple of pictures, maybe a lyric or two and the credits. But any album I have anything to do with is gonna have liner notes. Except this one.

"If there's one thing this album doesn't need, it's any words of explanation. This music comes from the epicenter of the core of what Black American Music is all about. When you listen to Gospel Music, I guarantee that without even knowing it's doing it, your brain will write its own liner notes. That's how perful this music is.

"The only thing this album needs is your ears and your heart.

"Keep a Light in the Window,

Joel Dorn, Fall 2005"

Good sleeve note.

MG