Blue Note, Blue Note, BN, Conn, RVG, Blue Note, Collectors Choice

[BeBop]

Don't get me wrong. I love Blue Note. One of my favorite record labels. But sometimes it seems like a cult. Just about anyone ever associated with the label is Lionized (capitalization deliberate) and even their non-Blue Note product demands a premium. It seems to me that even Mosaic owes much of its success to the association.

Strictly a personal thing, but I'm going to make a conscious effort to make sure to have real balance in my jazz life by not forgetting the many other worthy labels, large and small, independent and conglomerate.

...at least until that next batch of Connoisseurs comes out.

All this said, I'm thankful to Blue Note for everything they've done to make great music available - even if OOP from time to time.

[paul secor]

I've always felt that Blue Note was just one of a number of independent labels that documented the music during the 50's and 60's. (I know that Blue Note began in the late 30's and still exists today, but those were arguably the label's peak years for recording and documenting the music.) Blue Note recorded a lot of great music, but so did Riverside, Prestige, Contemporary, and a number of smaller and shorter lived labels. You could also include a label like Impulse in there - even though it was owned by ABC Paramount, it seemed to have a certain amount of autonomy, probably thanks to Bob Theile's guidance and Coltrane's record sales.

I've always felt that part of the reason for the Blue Note mystique came from Michael Cuscuna's p.r. work. I know that during the 60's when I started listening to jazz and buying records, I was at least as interested (probably more so) in what was released on some of those other other labels as I was in what was released on Blue Note.

[ghost of miles]

Excommunicate this man at once!! At the very least, banish him to the Blue Note Europe Bulletin Board, where he may meditate upon his heresies... oops, doesn't exist anymore, does it?

There's definitely a Blue Note fetish, but it doesn't bug me much... I think people who hit a saturation point move on to other labels/musicians as well. I just wish the modern Blue Note was a bit hipper (much as I like Moran, Osby, and some of the others currently being recorded).

[David Ayers]

In the wake of the avant-garde Blue Note really lost prestige. Many of their musicians were viewed as safe and the LPs though design classics were thought of as samey. Why am I saying all of this in the past tense? The CDs probably sell more now than most of the LPs. Nostalgic, safe, a closed world, and people who want see music as an extension of politics (usu. male persons of a certain age) have turned elsewhere. Master would not trick Smeegol. Yes yes master would. Come on Samwise the brave you irritating diddyman, lets toss the last of the Mosaic Blue Notes in that badly simulated volcano and piss off back to the cast camp so I can get this firkin make up off and start a proper career. In the Elven Lands. What was I saying?

[paul secor]

Hey, I did listen to a Hank Mobley LP this morning, so I'm not all bad.

I just don't buy into the "all things Blue Note before everything else" philosophy. I figured my post might buy me a bit of flack, but I can take it.

[BeBop]

Well, haven't drawn too many flames yet. I know this place was something of a haven after the (US) Blue Note Bulletin Board shut down. Heck, that's where I came from. And yes, I miss the old place.

Lest I sound too down on the 'locals', I've stuck around because people here seem to have broader musical interests and tastes than all-Blue Note, all-the-time. So I come for discussions of Nessa records, Konono (check it out!), the Hats, Ned Goold, Frank Hewitt...

So, where does that leave me? I believe the American expression is "preaching to the choir".

[BeBop]

By the way, who's that cat in my avatar? And didn't he record for...uh...Prestige?

[Noj]

A majority percentage of my small collection is BN, and I have worried that I'm missing out on other labels--so at times I've gone out of my way to buy OJCs or Impulse or something other than BN.

[Dave James]

I never took the time, nor will I, to determine what percentage of my collection is from Blue Note. Just looking at the telltale white spines in my storage units though, I'd guess 40-50% of everything I have is a BN imprint. I'd have a hard time arguing that Blue Note isn't head and shoulders above any other label in terms of overal quality and consistency. That's not to denigrate Prestige, Impulse, Pacific Jazz or any other label, but when anything in any line of endeavor stands out to the extent Blue Note does, I say give them their due, AND keep buying their product.

Up over and out.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Dave James

[BeBop]

I never took the time, nor will I, to determine what percentage of my collection is from Blue Note. Just looking at the telltale white spines in my storage units though, I'd guess 40-50% of everything I have is a BN imprint.

Absolutely no offense intended, but I thought my 3%-or-so Blue Note concentration was high.

[BeBop]

I never took the time, nor will I, to determine what percentage of my collection is from Blue Note. Just looking at the telltale white spines in my storage units though, I'd guess 40-50% of everything I have is a BN imprint.

Absolutely no offense intended, but I thought my 3%-or-so Blue Note concentration was high.

P.S. On the other hand, you've made a lot sounder investment than I have. Not much market for those Crown and Il Grandi del Jazz LPs now.

[JSngry]

Blue Note Fetishism is a syndrome with which I'm well familiar, having had a bad case of it from about 1976-1990.

I still love the label, and yes, they did have something different going on. Maybe not always on a grand scale, but you know a BN side when you hear it, no matter what type of jazz it is.

Having said that, I've always, from Day One, had a taste for other labels and other types of jazz, and pursued them with equal or greater vigor. But the Blue Note "thing" is something that is very, very real. It was a beautiful thing, and as the man said, beauty is a rare thing.

Now, having said that, I also gotta say that history is history, and that once you get a good grasp of your history (which, of course, does take some time), it's time to move on.

Truthfully, I think jazz as a whole is fetishized, especially since the number of living people making what is, for me, relevant music of now in the idiom is but a micro-percentage of what it used to be. Great music, my favorite "genre" bar none, perpetual nourishment for the mind, body, and soul, and when it's right, there ain't nothing better, at least not for me, but hey...

Let that which is alive flourish on its own terms, and let the ashes of that which has died spread in the wind, providing bountious natural fertilizer for whomever (and I do mean whomever) & wherever (and I do mean wherever) they might land upon.

Anything else just ain't natural, and if there's one thing the best jazz has always been and always will be, it's natural.

[Guy Berger]

Don't get me wrong. I love Blue Note. One of my favorite record labels. But sometimes it seems like a cult. Just about anyone ever associated with the label is Lionized (capitalization deliberate) and even their non-Blue Note product demands a premium. It seems to me that even Mosaic owes much of its success to the association.

I don't have much to add except that I agree. Certain labels seem to be fetishized at times (BN isn't the only one), whereas there isn't much of a mystique surrounding Prestige or Riverside. That said, there are a lot of great albums on BN.

If we're talking #s, 8 of the last 100 CDs I've purchased were recorded for BN.

ed: Wanted to add that hey, props to Blue Note for maintaining and cultivating the mystique. If it leads more people to listen to jazz, excellent.

Guy

Edited May 11, 2006 by Guy

[BeBop]

Thanks, JSngry. Well said. Except the part about Blue Note being fertilizer.

One thing that "saved" me during my formative years (similarly 1976-90) was that Blue Notes were relatively costly and I was absolutely broke. (Musician, ya know?) So, I've now got - oh, I'd estimate 6,000 LPs on whatever-became-of-Records. And, while their market value may be equal to that of aforementioned fertilizer, I love them for the music they contain.

Everytime Blue Note re-issues another batch, I spot something I wish I'd bought the first time around; I guess this is like the guys in my age group buying the new-model Mustangs and Minis and Chargers.

This morning, I changed my CDUniverse bookmark to direct me to CDBaby. Hey, you checked out the $5 selection yet?

[JSngry]

Thanks, JSngry. Well said. Except the part about Blue Note being fertilizer.

Fertilizer of one type or another is essential for a healthy life. It's nutrition.

[BeBop]

Thanks, JSngry. Well said. Except the part about Blue Note being fertilizer.

Fertilizer of one type or another is essential for a healthy life. It's nutrition.

Yeah, and for me, jazz is the sh*.

[JSngry]

Yeah, but do you eat where you shit?

[Quincy]

It's an easy comfort zone to fall into when in the early stages of getting into jazz. You can bounce around from Morgan as leader, Morgan on the side, meet "new" musicians to love from those sessions, so on & so forth. Plus you have those lovely b&w photo sessions. (Damn, thinking about them makes me hungry for a cigarette and I quit 5 or 6 years ago.)

Here's one that will cause many of you to whack your forehead and scream "what a putz," but when I was in my early 20s I'd see those b&w spines on the Original Jazz Classics and think something was suspicious because the discs were a little bit cheaper. Original Jazz Classics sounded like the K-Tel label to me. I thought that it must be some sort of knock-off inferior compilation label. I avoided it and bought Columbia & Impulse! instead (since the only jazz artists in the universe were Miles & Coltrane.) Finally I ran into a book or magazine article somewhere and figured it was a legit label. Pretty bright college boy I was.

I'm much better nowadays about spreading my dollars & interests around, but I will admit Blue Note can still be a draw. My fairly recent Mosaic purchases had been the H.R.S. & the Capitol boxes, but the last time around the top 2 for consideration were the Parlan & and the Turrentine. Couldn't help myself, and I bought the Turrentine btw. No apologies and I know none were asked for, and doggone it, it's beautiful music.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Quincy

[Guy Berger]

Here's one that will cause many of you to whack your forehead and scream "what a putz," but when I was in my early 20s I'd see those b&w spines on the Original Jazz Classics and think something was suspicious because the discs were a little bit cheaper. Original Jazz Classics sounded like the K-Tel label to me. I thought that it must be some sort of knock-off inferior compilation label.

I had a similar reaction. I think the first OJCs I ever picked up were Monk's Music and Brilliant Corners.

Guy

[Guest akanalog]

well i mean the musicians will tell you back in the day, recording for BN compared to riverside or prestige was a much classier deal.

i am pretty burnt on "hard bop" and don't see myself ever really going back. i can pick my three favorite blakey/morgan/mobley albums for instance, and be pretty set.

but for all the accusations of samey-ness, blue note did put out some progressive stuff at points compared to other labels of the time.

obviously BN fell off pretty hard, but it isn't all hard bop. some moncur, mclean, rivers, shorter, young, cherry, etc stuff that gets deeper. and if you like funk or fusion or blues-ey organ jazz, you got that too.

and in today's market, for all the bitching we do about various things being OOP, blue note does do a better job than people like impulse! (and their mom company verve) in keeping stuff readily available.

i think i fell into the same BN comfort zone in my early jazz buying days, like many of you say, but i don't think that was necessarily a bad thing.

[Ken Dryden]

I think that Blue Note suffered not in comparison to avant-garde, but when visionary and founder Alfred Lion sold the business and the new owners started concentrating too much on jazz funk. Some of the recordings from the 1970s are embarassing. The late Gene Harris once told me "When I saw myself in platform shoes and playing electric keyboards, I realized that I was on the wrong path." (A bit of a paraphrase, as I don't have the tape handy to play).

Lion had a great ear. Who else would take chances on Thelonious Monk and Herbie Nichols (though the latter never caught on with jazz audience during his lifetime)?

Edited May 12, 2006 by Ken Dryden

[BruceH]

Don't get me wrong. I love Blue Note. One of my favorite record labels. But sometimes it seems like a cult. Just about anyone ever associated with the label is Lionized (capitalization deliberate) and even their non-Blue Note product demands a premium.

"Seems"?

Personally, I long ago joined the Riverside cult.

[Ed S]

A lot of the Blue Note enthusiasm was, IMO, resultant from the combination of the popularity and camaraderie of the old BNBB as well as Blue Note's marketing strategy that kept releases in circulation for only short periods of time. On more than one occasion, I found myself springing for the BN Conn or the title that was announced as going OOP before buying the same artist or similar maerial on OJC or some other label.

For me, BN is a great label with great music and was an excellent way to explore hard bop. Now that I've done that - while I still enjoy BN - there are other artists/releases/styles to discover.

[chris olivarez]

The Blue Note catalog still spings some surprises on me but that's becoming fewer and far between. Gonna have to go scavenger hunting for OJC's now that it's becoming a challenge.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

When I started work (and buying LPs) in 1960, normal price of a UK manufactured pop album (as opposed to a classical album) was £1.60. Blue Notes were £2.87, which was pretty near three quarters of my weekly wage. But we all knew that Blue Note stood for quality then; it was like buying a Rolls Royce. But you just couldn't afford the opportunity cost when you could get material from Atlantic, Pacific Jazz, Prestige, Chess, Savoy, etc etc for £1.60. So we'd go into HMV and pick up a couple of LPs to take into the listening booth; one would be a Blue Note, the other wouldn't. And we'd go into ecstasies over the BN and buy the other.

Now that wasn't marketing. BN had no presence over here until 1968, when Liberty set up a Blue Note office in London (not a Liberty office, notice). It was just listening to the stuff and hearing what we heard.

Still, in the end (so far) I have 295 Blue Notes, quite a significant way behind Prestige (369), with Joe Fields' labels coming up pretty fast on the rails. In the end, I think it's because I prefer the lesser quality method of making albums that Chuck mentioned earlier today in the thread on Savant Records: "The "Prestige model" (low bread, minimal studio time, cheap manufacturing and good profits)", to which Joe adheres. And to which one might also add, no paid rehearsal time.

Quality isn't necessarily what one should seek. We're talking about a music that's supposed to be created on the fly; a music that has always been created in less than perfect circumstances; a music that has always stood for great joy and exhuberance, despite everything. I once castigated someone mightily for complaining that Blue Notes were "churned out", meaning that Lion and Woolf had a method they applied which ensured a good quality product. If I met him now, I think I'd say I agreed with him. None of which is meant to imply that I don't enjoy this stuff; greatly.

MG

Edited May 13, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg