litchfield jazz festival aug 4th,5th,6th

[mike casinghino]

the litchfield jazz festival will take place on aug 4th,5th,& 6th. artists will include:

cyrus chestnut

lee konitz

eddie palmieri

bill charlap/renee rosnes duo

john scofield

james moody

litchfieldjazzfest

[AllenLowe]

It's a nice fest - however, I was the one who suggested they do it, many years ago, and put the idea into the head of the current director - who than took the idea and refused to acknowledge me or to permit me to participate -

[Dan Gould]

It's a nice fest - however, I was the one who suggested they do it, many years ago, and put the idea into the head of the current director - who than took the idea and refused to acknowledge me or to permit me to participate -

Jeez Allen, did you expect the program to include an acknowledgement, "Based on an Original Idea by Allen Lowe"???

[AllenLowe]

it's a little more complicated than that - when I was living in New Haven I did some work for Litchfield Performing Arts, whose director was very interested in jazz - I discussed with the director the idea of putting together a festival - we spoke about it for some time; I was running a large festival myself at the time. She told me it wouldn't work - and than basially put together the festival as I suggested it (combining concerts, educational workshops, etc; she basically pumped me for ideas and logistics) - as a working musician myself I was interested in participating, and she had also dangled, very specifically, the promise of my involvement - basically I gave her the idea and told how it should be set up - she used my ideas and than would not even return my calls once it began - I don't know if the issue was ego or jealousy or credit, but you can imagine that I was (and continue to be) a bit miffed. The other thing that happened was that she began to hire some musicians from the Hartford area who resented me for critcizing them (they had basically strangled the Hartford jazz scene by hogging bookings, keeping non-friends out, and thus killing off the whole thing; when I pointed this out once at a public jazz symposium I became persona non-grata). One in particular (intials M.P) continuously bad-mouthed me as a second-rate musician (this after I had recorded with some rather heavy people) and I'm sure this helped justify, in the director's mind, my exclusion -

Edited May 19, 2006 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

gonna bump, as I hold a grudge -

[Chuck Nessa]

Stupid to "bump" after 2 hours.

[AllenLowe]

did I violate the bump etiquette?

[Dan Gould]

did I violate the bump etiquette?

Given that in the course of two hours any thread is unlikely to fall off of the first page of the "view new posts" page, yes, you did.

Its frankly like a child in a high chair who throws his food down because he wants some attention.

[sheldonm]

the litchfield jazz festival will take place on aug 4th,5th,& 6th. artists will include:

cyrus chestnut

lee konitz

eddie palmieri

bill charlap/renee rosnes duo

john scofield

james moody

litchfieldjazzfest

.......and Dionne Warwick, one of the great jazz singers of our times!

m~

[JSngry]

Dionne's not a jazz singer, to be sure, but her musical director/husband at one time was drummer Bill English, and her classic interpretations of Bachrach/David songs were not totally uniformed by a jazz sensibility.

Still, point well-taken.

[AllenLowe]

Dan, you're really out of line in your comments - I bumped that thread because you responded to me in a way which made me seem petty and which made my comments seem insubstantial - and your comment stood for some time by itself because I was at work - so what I did was restore this thread to a position where people might understand better why I might be miffed at the Litchfield festival - any "bump etiquette" is pure BS -

[AllenLowe]

so go bump yourself -

[JSngry]

A good bump is nothing to sneeze at...

[mike casinghino]

if allen lowe actually did come up with the idea for the litchfield jazz festival,why not take credit for it?what is the need to make nasty comments to mr. lowe?

[AllenLowe]

thanks Mike - it was really a question of courtesy and consideration - I lived in Connecticut for 20 years, ran one of the largest jazz festivals on the East Coast for a time, employed a lot of musicians and, as anyone who knew me will attest, was always helpful to other musicians in finding work - I never attempted, basically, to take all the work or tried to keep anyone out. (I also quadrupled the pay scale for locally-based musicians at the festival that I directed). Unfortunately, as more than one jazz player will attest, musicians tend to get a little petty when fighting for a small piece of a shrinking pie. I was happy to counsel the Litchfield people, but it stuck in my craw when they not only took my advice and idea but than hired some musicians who clearly advised them to exclude me. It's a kind of politics that is unbecoming to the field of jazz and I don't care how good a bass player Mario Pavone is but the guy needs to get some ethics - (oh no - I mentioned a name; what an unfortunate slip) -

[Kevin Bresnahan]

So just how is someone supposed "to give you credit"? Do they market the thing as the Litchfield Jazz Festival, idea by Allan Lowe? The Allan Lowe Litchfield Jazz Festival?

Allan, you come across pretty strong here on the forums a lot of the time. If you are the same way in person, your own agressive nature may have turned off that organizer. It might be that simple.

Also, by your own admission, you made some enemies in the CT jazz scene. Since the organizer is likely to have to rely on the entire jazz community in the area to get this festival off the ground, she had weigh using you and alienating a lot of the local jazz educators or cut you out and avoid that problem. Put yourself in her shoes.

FWIW, I won't be going back. I went last year and 1) it's east of nowhere and 2) if you're not under the tent, you cook in the sun. Worse, they don't allow umbrellas. Fair-skinned folk like me who aviod the sun at all costs can't survive for hours on end sitting in the broiling sun.

[Dan Gould]

Dan, you're really out of line in your comments - I bumped that thread because you responded to me in a way which made me seem petty and which made my comments seem insubstantial - and your comment stood for some time by itself because I was at work - so what I did was restore this thread to a position where people might understand better why I might be miffed at the Litchfield festival - any "bump etiquette" is pure BS -

First of all, I am not even the guy who pointed out that bumping after two hours isn't right. And your comments were petty and insubstantial because you offered no details whatsoever.

You "restored the thread" when you posted your detailed comments explaining all of the background to why you are permanently "miffed" at the organizer. Two hours later you decided to "bump". Why? Were you pissed off that in just two hours fewer people had seen your last comment than might have read my flip statement??

What does "bumping" do?

It puts the thread at the top of the "active posts" list. Was it NOT near the top after just two hours???????

Bumping says "LOOK AT ME". Its BOORISH and that is what CHUCK said first. Bumps ought to be used only by:

A) People who are looking to bring up interesting threads from the past which might spark new and interesting commentary from people who missed it the first time or are new. This has in fact happened when truly boorish people like DEEP or Aric have gotten boards in an uproar over their latest transgression, people have "bumped" old threads to try to get the board back on the subject at hand: jazz.

B) People who are offering CDs for sale, when they still have items to sell or have added items.

Those are the only times, IMO, that "bumping" is needed or appreciated. Screaming "LOOK AT ME" and then throwing a fit when someone says you're being boorish is not appreciated.

All of this might have been avoided if you had simply given the full background to why you hate the Litchfield Jazz Fest in your first post.

Edited May 21, 2006 by Dan Gould

[JSngry]

I've been in Allen's shoes a few times over the years - doing something (sometimes doing a lot) to help somebody out, having it work, and then getting shut out completely of the subsequent success for no other reason than they see the opportunity to "build a career" for themselves and now that they've gotten to the point where they can (and might well not have gotten w/o your help), hey, later. "I did it all by myself!" Yeah, sure you did...

It hurts, and you never forget. Fortunately, I've been able to get enough going on my own that I have gotten credit for that I look at those past experiences as so much "hey, you got me, fuck you, asshole, I'm moving on". But, yeah, you never completely forget. Or forgive. Even though you should. In the wrong place at the wrong time under the wrong circumstances, that shit can still turn me evil. And that ain't good.

All I'm saying is that y'all oughta cut Allen a little bit of slack, at least up to this point. And that Allen oughta let go of it now before it gets bigger than it needs to be. Because it can get a lot bigger than it needs to be. I know from experience.

[AllenLowe]

will take under advisement, Jim, but I'm not worried about this blowing up, just going on the record - and thanks, Kevin, for those kind words of support - basically I'm aggressive when I disagree with someone (like you), but conciliatory and a good guy if I agree - I ran a jazz festival for 3 years that drew approximately 100,000 people per year, hired all musicians, coordinated all city departments - yes, I must be very hard to get along with. Just talk to the people I've worked with over the years or whom I hired than, like Max Roach, James Moody, Tony Williams, Tito Puente, Ray Barretto, Freddie Hubbard - I must have been quite abrasive to have not only taken care of those guys but to have restored a reasonable pay scale for the local acts we hired (the previous promoter was paying the local bands $50 per night, flat rate - and that was for the whole group). The Hartford thing was a bunch of small minded musicians who basically strangled that city's jazz scene by grabbing all gigs and keeping everyone else out - this was common knowledge in that city and basically led to the audiences fleeing the local clubs there in the 1980s. I got more musicians working in New Haven than anyone else at that time; and I don't believe in blackballing people who disagree with you or taking credit for ideas that are not your own -

[AllenLowe]

"Since the organizer is likely to have to rely on the entire jazz community in the area to get this festival off the ground, she had weigh using you and alienating a lot of the local jazz educators or cut you out and avoid that problem. Put yourself in her shoes."

Huh? Local jazz educators? I taught courses and ran seminars in that area for nearly 20 years; what educators are we talking about, the high school band leaders who asked me to give guest lectures, the Rutgers Institute of Jazz Studies, for whom I gave several talks, or the Yale Jazz band director who asked me to guest with the Yale band? Or the Connecticut Humanties Council, who funded my seminars and various other projects?

Or Jackie McLean, who offered me a job teaching in the middle 1980s?

Edited May 21, 2006 by AllenLowe