Atlantic Records founder Ahmet Ertegun dies

[paul secor]

I don't believe for a second that Ertegun and Wexler didn't know what what was going on with that contract. They had long time experience in the music business, and I'm sure that they knew full well what they were doing. Stax should have known that they needed competent lawyers when they were dealing with sharks.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I don't believe for a second that Ertegun and Wexler didn't know what what was going on with that contract. They had long time experience in the music business, and I'm sure that they knew full well what they were doing. Stax should have known that they needed competent lawyers when they were dealing with sharks.

Well, Wex says he didn't read the small print. He knew that Sam & Dave, who appeared on Stax, were actually Atlantic artists; and he offered Jim Stewart Aretha on the same basis. I think this is consistent with a view that there were only certain Stax recordings that Atlantic owned; the Sam & Dave's as well as those of Atlantic artists like Wilson Pickett, whose recordings were produced by Stax for Atlantic. Wex says:

"In no uncertain terms, the ownership was in the original contract drawn up by Atlantic's lawyer, Paul Marshall. ... I couldn't act unilaterally, because by then I was an employee, no longer a partner."

At the time the contract was drawn up, Wexler had only been involved with Atlantic 6 years and, in fairness, his contribution was not to the business end; it was as a record producer.

Of course Jim Stewart should have known - the man was a banker by profession. What kind of banker doesn't look at the small print of a contract? So, if you were trying to slip some small print into a contract, would you try it on with a banker?

MG

[PHILLYQ]

Here's an appreciation by a sportswriter who covered the Cosmos at the time:

For all the worldwide acclaim that the music business brought Ahmet Ertegun, I suspect he got bigger kicks reading his name in the sports pages.

As one of the founders of the New York Cosmos soccer team that for three years, 1977-79, was the ultimate one-hit wonder, Ertegun often was meddlesome, Steinbrenner-ish, making him an easy target for a kid who covered his team.

But Ertegun, who died last week at 83, not only didn't dismiss me, he graciously indulged me; he even claimed that I taught him how to take a punch. And while he'd make our jobs difficult by escorting superstars - Mick Jagger, to drop one name - into the post-game locker room, he made sure to introduce them to this kid reporter. Ertegun was a sport.

Years later, on two occasions, I ran into Ahmet in a restaurant. Both times he was in the company of big shots. And both times he insisted that I join them. And then he and I swapped Cosmos' stories, probably boring his big shot buddies silly. Nah, together we could work a small room.

It's by Phil Mushnick of the NY Post. Link:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12182006/sport...nick.htm?page=2

[paul secor]

I don't believe for a second that Ertegun and Wexler didn't know what what was going on with that contract. They had long time experience in the music business, and I'm sure that they knew full well what they were doing. Stax should have known that they needed competent lawyers when they were dealing with sharks.

Well, Wex says he didn't read the small print. He knew that Sam & Dave, who appeared on Stax, were actually Atlantic artists; and he offered Jim Stewart Aretha on the same basis. I think this is consistent with a view that there were only certain Stax recordings that Atlantic owned; the Sam & Dave's as well as those of Atlantic artists like Wilson Pickett, whose recordings were produced by Stax for Atlantic. Wex says:

"In no uncertain terms, the ownership was in the original contract drawn up by Atlantic's lawyer, Paul Marshall. ... I couldn't act unilaterally, because by then I was an employee, no longer a partner."

At the time the contract was drawn up, Wexler had only been involved with Atlantic 6 years and, in fairness, his contribution was not to the business end; it was as a record producer.

Of course Jim Stewart should have known - the man was a banker by profession. What kind of banker doesn't look at the small print of a contract? So, if you were trying to slip some small print into a contract, would you try it on with a banker?

MG

Wexler can say what he says. I don't buy it, but if you do, that's fine. For all of his love for the music, and his gifts as a producer, Jerry Wexler was still a very ambitious man. I definitely don't believe that Ahmet Ertegun was ignorant of what was in the contract. You don't last in the music biz for as long as he did, and gain the power that he had, by being naive.

Jim Stewart and Estelle Axton, on the other hand, were naive and got chewed up by the sharks. That's the scumbag business side of the music business.

Edited December 20, 2006 by paul secor

[Chalupa]

I don't believe for a second that Ertegun and Wexler didn't know what what was going on with that contract. They had long time experience in the music business, and I'm sure that they knew full well what they were doing. Stax should have known that they needed competent lawyers when they were dealing with sharks.

Well, Wex says he didn't read the small print. He knew that Sam & Dave, who appeared on Stax, were actually Atlantic artists; and he offered Jim Stewart Aretha on the same basis. I think this is consistent with a view that there were only certain Stax recordings that Atlantic owned; the Sam & Dave's as well as those of Atlantic artists like Wilson Pickett, whose recordings were produced by Stax for Atlantic. Wex says:

"In no uncertain terms, the ownership was in the original contract drawn up by Atlantic's lawyer, Paul Marshall. ... I couldn't act unilaterally, because by then I was an employee, no longer a partner."

At the time the contract was drawn up, Wexler had only been involved with Atlantic 6 years and, in fairness, his contribution was not to the business end; it was as a record producer.

Of course Jim Stewart should have known - the man was a banker by profession. What kind of banker doesn't look at the small print of a contract? So, if you were trying to slip some small print into a contract, would you try it on with a banker?

MG

Wexler can say what he says. I don't buy it, but if you do, that's fine. For all of his love for the music, and his gifts as a producer, Jerry Wexler was still a very ambitious man. I definitely don't believe that Ahmet Ertegun was ignorant of what was in the contract. You don't last in the music biz for as long as he did, and gain the power that he had, by being naive.

Jim Stewart and Estelle Axton, on the other hand, were naive and got chewed up by the sharks. That's the scumbag business side of the music business.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."

-Hunter S. Thompson

[Soulstation1]

anyone see the PBS special on Ertegun last night?

[paul secor]

anyone see the PBS special on Ertegun last night?

Passed - Didn't want to see/hear what Mick Jagger, Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Kid Rock, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, Bette Midler, and the rest of his latter day cronies had to say.

Now that the cynic in me missed it - does any one here feel it was worth watching?

[garthsj]

anyone see the PBS special on Ertegun last night?

Passed - Didn't want to see/hear what Mick Jagger, Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Kid Rock, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, Bette Midler, and the rest of his latter day cronies had to say.

Now that the cynic in me missed it - does any one here feel it was worth watching?

I was forced to grade papers last night, so I put the show on as background, but despite the fact that the jazz side of Atlantic was hardly mentioned (it was after all Nesuhi's domain), the show as quite appealing, and worth watching, especially when considering that the option was watching Glen Beck's attempt to refute the global warming scare!).

..... The big show on TV last night was the second part of the Marlon Brando documentary on TCM .. Now, that was definitely worth watching!

[Soulstation1]

i saw the last half of the brando special

[danasgoodstuff]

There were some lovely clips of /ruth Brown, Joe Turner, Ray Charles and the Clovers (parts of 3 dif songs!). Good stuff on his differences with vis a vis J. Wexler. The royalty dispute with Ruth was covered, his role as an apologist for the Turk's slaughter of the armenians was not.

[Quincy]

The story of him going to Harlem as a 7th grader was priceless. I'll butcher it & leave out important details, but he asks a taxi driver to take him to Harlem (as in "Harlem," no club mentioned) as he imagined music was everywhere, that people were singing, dancing & playing in the streets. The taxi driver suggests "The Plantation" and takes him there. Because of Ahmet's jazz knowledge people assume he's older than he is (he's just in the 7th grade, or about 12 or 13 years old.) The manager instructs a showgirl to share his booth and he's served drinks. After the show he ends up at a party and James P. Johnson is playing piano. Sidney Bechet is there too, and sees him drinking scotch & soda that had been handed to him (and Ahmet's just in the 7th grade!) and says "You're too young to be drinking that! Here, smoke this!"

The Mick & Ahmet segments mostly involved exchanging stories (such as the one above) and Mick obviously had high respect & much love for the man. I'd think even those who don't like Mick may end up disliking him less here.

The show crashed logarithmically in the home stretch with Phil Collins, Bette and Kid Rock. But for the first 2/3rds there were many good moments.

[Niko]

The show crashed logarithmically in the home stretch

too bad i missed this

[Shrdlu]

I just saw the movie about Ray Charles a few days ago, and the guy playing Ahmet did a fine job, I thought. He was onscreen quite a lot.

As an ex mathematician, I don't get the crack about the logarithms, by the way.

[Quincy]

As an ex mathematician, I don't get the crack about the logarithms, by the way.

Well, as one who hasn't been in a math class in too many years and wasn't that good begin with, I guess I meant the slope of deterioration of the entertainment value was seemingly not linear but more complex in it intensity, as it went from Phil Collins to Bette Midler to Kid Rock. Oh the pain & the agony! So that's my excuse for failing to provide the proper mathematical comparison.

[brownie]

The Book Section of this Sunday's New York Times reviews a new book on Ahmet Ertegun.

The Last Sultan

Another New York Times article on the same book.