Gigs in your town

[Soul Stream]

By the way, SS-

When you said you named your son after Curtis Fuller I remembered my "Boss of the Soul Stream Trombone" CD. Is that where your name came from?

Also, what the hell does that title mean? I've always wondered.

Forgive me if this falls under the "duh" category.

There's so many soul-related questions here.

....matter of fact I was just listening to the Impule-ive Curtis Fuller(boss of the) a couple of days ago...great album of course!

I pulled by board name from a George Braith Blue Note LP..."Soul Stream."

All I know is Curtis Fuller ALWAYS gets bitch-slapped behind J.J. Johnson. Curtis was a lyrical mother fucker and he NEEDS to be recognized by all humanity!!!!

....Tina and CO2 are still around to my knowledge but hardly playing (that's my knowledge which could be wrong)

Randy Zimmerman...I don't know that dude. Sorry Jsngry.

[JSngry]

Randy's a trombone player. College buddy of mine, was a key member of CO2 for a while. partners with Alex Coke for a while. Great guy, great player, but not a limelight seeker. Haven't heard from him in a while, and I'm not a "keep in touch" type, although I should be.

[Jazz]

Things are pretty dry where I am too. My personal opinion is that the recording industry was the beginning of the end for those who love spontaneous and live improvised music. I think it has something to do with the apparent ease of which modern pop music is contrived. I mean, you have stuff like American Idol and situations where people who don't study (either academically or by getting tons of playing/ear experience) get these huge record contracts. I think people have just lost alot of respect for musicians in general because of it.

Of course I haven't researched any of these assertions in any way, it's just an opinion I've developed from what I've observed.

[Jim Alfredson]

I don't know if it's that people have lost respect for musicians or whether it's that they don't expect that much from them because of the banality of so much music that constantly bombards them.

[JSngry]

I think there's a general lack of humilty in America today, and one manifewstation of it is that a lot of people don't feel anything "special" about hearing a quality performance, musical or otherwise. They want something that, at some level, they can feel superior to. Call it the Springerization of America. Rather than being moved or inspired by a well-honed, highly developed talent, they seem to feel threatened by it, and they'd prefer something non-threatening.

That's perfectly normal, and nothing new, but it seems that it takes VERY little to threaten people these days when it comed to entertainment

[davidmanson]

The amount of gigs for musicians have been lower in my area (Tampa Bay) for the past three years. I think that there are two main reasons.

The economy...

(although I see plenty of folks driving new $40-60,000 luxury cars and SUVs)/

The inevitable victory of "Pop" culture and generational politics...

It is sad that young people think of local music performance in terms of DJs, not musicians. Baby Boomer audiences seem willing to pay hefty tickets for pathetic "oldies" concerts, but will not support local musicians. The audiences that grew up listening to jazz... are too old to go out anymore or they are dead.

To continue to make music here, I have had to become involved as a presenter and promoter of musical events. It's a ton of work. Gone are the days when I could expect to get calls for casuals, Broadway shows or private parties. If I don't make it happen, I don't make music.

No matter what genre, I find that audiences want events, not concerts. If you play in a string quartet, you had better plan a pre-concert talk or wine tasting. With new music or jazz, you need to book at last two bands or have some social activity embedded in the concert. That's the way it is now.

I would like to encourage everyone who has a passion for music to consider organizing one musical event per year. Meet with friends and figure out how to plan, promote and execute a concert or festival. I am convinced that this is the only solution to the continuing marginalization of jazz. It's easy to gripe and condemn commercial culture. Take that energy and make a concert happen in your community.

David Manson

EMIT

[Rooster_Ties]

I would like to encourage everyone who has a passion for music to consider organizing one musical event per year. Meet with friends and figure out how to plan, promote and execute a concert or festival. I am convinced that this is the only solution to the continuing marginalization of jazz. It's easy to gripe and condemn commercial culture. Take that energy and make a concert happen in your community.

Wow, what a great idea!!! I'd love to take that ball and run with it in my area, but I wouldn't know even where to start??? But I do personally know a few dozen of the best "younger" or more "creative" musicians in this area (jazz and classical), so I guess that's at least something.

What escapes me is how best to go about promoting stuff, because it seems like nobody in this town (Kansas City) really knows how to promote anything -- or at least such that some people actually turn out. Everything really "happening" locally is known mostly from grass-roots efforts, word-of-mouth, and the like.

I wonder where the people are that are the target audience for real live jazz, and how to get them out the door in the the club/venue where the stuffs happening. How do you create enough 'buzz' about important local music, to get some butts off the couch??

For instance, we have an incredible world-class music conservatory here in Kansas City (at UMKC, with Bobby Watson at the helm), and I'd think that there'd be a potential audience to be had there (with at least some of the students there) - but I rarely see any fliers up there (on campus) advertising significant local jazz shows, or even national act shows (for that matter). Then again, without a "name" artist, I'm not sure that many people would ever come out for anything they didn't already know about first. Quite a puzzle.

And I know a few guys in town who spend $4,000-$6,000 on new stereo equipment (every 5 years), and probably $2,000-$3,000 per year on recordings (including plenty of expensive Japanese imports), and they go to only like 6 or 8 live jazz shows per year, most of which are "bigger names" passing through town. Not necessarily just "huge" names, but even lesser known guys, like a "Greg Tardy", for example.

But I almost NEVER see any of these same guys, at any of the more happenin' things going on, made up of exclusively local cats.

I just don't get it. SACD's be damned, some of that money (that $3,000 per year in high-end music and/or equipment) could be going to the local jazz food-chain, the way I see it.

What does it take?? Personal phone calls to specific people saying "hey, this act really is something worth seeing, you'd better not miss it"???

Edited August 28, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Sundog]

No matter what genre, I find that audiences want events, not concerts.

We played a pretty interesting gig recently which was comprised of three 30 minute sets. Each set was separated by salsa dancing lessons. It worked out great! I've gained a new appreciation for salsa dancing if you know what I mean?

[Soul Stream]

Just came back from my weekly thurs. evening happy hour. Looks like the end of at least that weeklyl gig (maybe both of mine soon).

Like I said earlier, this gig is exclusively bar % plus tips. Usually this is a big musician no-no...but this place is always a good place and the money's always right. It used to come out to $100 a man usually. Then, about a month ago, it went down to about 50 bucks for the drummer and 35 or so for me and the guitarist.....well, tonight was the all time low. I actually had to take money out of the ATM so I could pay the drummer and guitarist. I LOST almost 50 dollars out of my own pocket on the gig. We made 26 dollars from the bar and 10 bucks or so in the tip jar. Horrible. I'm not even sure what to say about all this except, if I see George Bush, I'm going to ask him for my goddamn economy back.

Horrible. I've actually paid to play now. It took 10 years but it's finally happened.

[Jim Alfredson]

Man, that sucks. We played to an almost empty bar tonight (the R&B band) but we made $90 a piece at least.

I like David's idea of an event. A concert and a wine tasting party... now that's an idea!!!

[Soul Stream]

Man, that sucks. We played to an almost empty bar tonight (the R&B band) but we made $90 a piece at least.

Even my restaurant gig on tuesdays which pays a decent guarantee is getting very tough. Business is so bad the owner is in a foul mood all the time now. I can't see him guaranteeing band money much longer. These bar/club owners can take a financial hit on occassion, but after a period of consisent bad business, that $90 a man guarantee won't hold. I hope things turn around for all of us....musicians, restaurant and club owners soon.

I'm going to have to make the call today and cancel my Thursdays.

[Jazz]

I don't know if it's that people have lost respect for musicians or whether it's that they don't expect that much from them because of the banality of so much music that constantly bombards them.

I think that's definitely one good explanation for why people think music is easy. Telling anyone that you are majoring in music is a good way to get a "oh, so you're taking the easy route" response. Grrr.

Horrible. I've actually paid to play now. It took 10 years but it's finally happened.

Man that totally sucks. It takes alot of passion for music to tough that kind of stuff out.

[Dmitry]

It's sad to hear about gigs drying up for you. I'm sure after the Labor Day things'll pick up. They do for many professions.

What's going in on in Europe gig-wise, I wonder.

Just checked out a few of the Frankfurt jazz clubs on-line and they mostly feature local musicians, the only American name I saw was Richie Cole...

[davidmanson]

Thanks for the positive comment about creating your own events. I am in a rush right now, but I'd like to jot down a few remarks. I really believe that this is the only way to preserve jazz, new music or whatever you are into.

Funding

You can consider looking for grant funding. I have an article about that here: http://www.spjc.edu/spg/music/grants.htm

A quicker approach is to get four or more like-minded people together in a meeting and present the idea of a jazz event. You might even create a club. Ask them to consider risking $200 per member toward the costs of a music event. If you have a successful event, they will recover the investment.

Think about the event. Include local musicians in addition to touring musicians. Your local musicians will greatly enhance and promote the event, and bringing in only "outside" artists won't create a long-lasting cultural improvement to your community. By the way - never talk with high profile artists' booking agents. You can't afford to work that way. Find out who is touring and try to reach a band member by e-mail directly.

Find a friendly and inviting venue. Never pay for venue rental. If you look you will find a space for free or you can convince the owner that they will make money on drinks or that increased foot traffic will result from the concert. You have to think with a "herd" mentality when considering audiences. I have presented over 100 concerts during the past 10 years and there seem to be some common elements when considering venues (at least in my area). Here they are:

Avoid universities - for some strange reason general audiences don't like stepping foot on campuses. Of course there are exceptions, but my biggest losses have happened when I have given concerts there, even when the music hall was wonderful.

ALCOHOL must be available. This is strange since jazz crowds don't drink much anymore (this is what club owners tell me). I noticed this when doing concerts at a museum. Whe we set up for wine and beer sales (by recommended donation) our audiences doubled. Once again - there has to be a social aspect associated with concerts now. Apparently music is just not enough (this really saddens me, but that's the way it is).

Avoid off-the-track warehouse and risky venues. Stick to the main strip where people dine and go to bars OR museums and art galleries. This is the "herd" mentality at work. If people aren't comfortable going to a venue, large numbers will avoid your music event just for that reason. Having said that - if there is already some foot traffic to a remote venue (maybe frequented by the "arts"crowd), then you may have success there.

Promotion can take a large amount of work, but it is everything in presenting music.

I have to go now, but I'll return with some ideas about that on Tuesday.

Thanks for reading my disorganized thoughts.

David

[jazz1]

I am a jazz lover and belong to a non-profit organization that set up jazz concerts once every five weeks or so to promote good jazz by local musicians.

Once a year we try to get an artist from a foreign country just to make it more interesting.

We have a large data base of possible patrons and before each concert we phone personally everyone interested and manage to sell a (full house) 200 seats every single time.

All the money after expenses are paid, are shared amongst the musicians themselves.

What we have found is that if we put posters up, or even advertise on the local community radion station people don't even bother to turn up.

One has to actually sell tickets and get the money ahead for it to be a success.

We give the regular patrons priority get a commitment that they will be attending, and do trust them to pay us at the door.

Others have to pay in advance.

We have been going on for 5 years and it is working well.

The only draw back is that the music has to please the majority, thus too avant garde jazz is a no no, if we did it, we may loose our audience.

We have discovered that vocalists are always a big draw card.

Me may have some pretty modern jazz in the first half (50 min) but the main feature (70 min) is always pretty conservative. (relative term)

We also raise money by selling wine by the glass, tea and coffee during the interval, we use that to have a few posters made as well as the tickets, we also try to build a little capital to pay for an airfare once a year or an overseas artist.

It works, all it need is some will and dedication.

If you are a jazz lover why don't you start something like that in your town, the rewards are great. I've made some great musicians friends

[davidmanson]

I like your approach of telephoning people directly and encouraging them to attend your concerts as well as getting most of the funding in advance. Naturally - being a nonprofit organization with a track record helps with collecting the money up front. The telephone call is a great idea. We'll try that next time.

One thing that works well for us is giving away a fair amount of tickets to shop owners (for letting us place posters and flyers) and radio station announcers (for on air "giveaways"). I was resistent to this initially, but found only an increase in revenue after giving away tickets. I think that it helps to get a "buzz" happening about the event.

We have good luck with most of the media, but we make an effort to promote the concert as "unique". Instead of sending "stock" press to them, we put a unique spin on the event. We also send them great black & white photos. A photo in the local paper will add at least 50% to the audience count.

I send advance press out about 6 weeks before the event and then follow up with more detailed information, recordings and press pack. Here is an example of how we are initially promoting our next concert:

PSA

The 9th season of EMIT is starting with a concert on Tuesday, September 30 at the wonderful Palladium Theater. It starts at 8 PM. This concert is the annual EMIT Avant-A-Thon, a benefit for the series. This is concert # 70.

The theme for the concert is "ambient luminescence". Here are the artists on the Avant-A-Thon:

Tuba visionary Tom Heasley: http://kalvos.org/heasley.html Tom creates beautiful layers of sound using his tuba, voice and looping equipment. Do you remember the sound of the obelisk in 2001 A Space Odyssey? That was music by contemporary composer Gyorgy Ligeti. Tom Heasley's music is similar... rich, layered, soothing and permeating.

Moving Current Dance Collective dancer/choreographer Erin Cardinal (http://www.info-lution.com/webs/movingcurrent/directors2.htm) will be performing.

Local trance/drone band PoOg led by Rick Olson, keyboardist for Zappa group Bogus Pomp.

Instrument builder/composer Vonn New (from Loud Zoo) will be sharing her home-made musical instruments.

VJ Lumena Atherton will project computer-generated imagery to add a visual

dimension to the music.

Tickets are $10 general and $8 for students and seniors available at the Palladium. The Palladium Theater is located at 253 Fifth Avenue North near downtown St. Petersburg. Call (727) 822-3590 for further information.

I never send press to just one writer. I always send a duplicate to the arts editor. For the community radio station, I like to burn a :45 or :60 PSA to CD with an announcement of the event with music excerpts.

Of course we send e-mails out to our list.

There is more, but this is a good start.

David Manson

[jazzypaul]

I walk a fine, fine line when I deal with this issue. I have two bands. One avant-garde group that is lucky if it gets 20 gigs a year, and an organ trio that does the Medeski, Martin & Wood/Zony Mash thing. The organ trio sells out gigs wherever we play, bar owners beg us to come back (although they never need to, if we get paid and can drink for free, we'll be back...) and everyone has a good time. I don't see the audience disconnect that you speak of. When we play things like Flashlight, Mothership Connection, Sexual Healing or No Quarter (the pop tunes...) people tune in, and they seem to stay with us through the originals. Granted, we're consciously going after a different audience (we seek out clubs that are friendly to "jam bands") but, things are going well.

This does tie into my thoughts that jazz musicians have forgotten that they need to be first class marketeers as well. I dunno. Best of luck to you all, and here's to hoping that my incredibly good luck doesn't dry out anytime soon.

[Soul Stream]

I guess the more "jazz" you play, the more of a "disconnect" there is. Mothership Connection is great, but you're basically a funk band at that point.

By the way, what's the name of the group. If bar owners are "begging" for you to come back (especially in this economy), then it sounds like a band we should be on the lookout for.

[jazzypaul]

The name of the band is the Three Blind Mice. Our day jobs have done a pretty good job of keeping us tied to the area, but we're slowly working our way out. Not to mention, being tied to Chicago is not a terrible thing.

As for being a funk band, I guess we could be called that, but, on the other hand, with Ken Vandermark doing P-Funk tunes and Jason Moran doing Afrika Baambata tunes, I'd figure all bets are off.

[Soul Stream]

The name of the band is the Three Blind Mice. Our day jobs have done a pretty good job of keeping us tied to the area, but we're slowly working our way out. Not to mention, being tied to Chicago is not a terrible thing.

As for being a funk band, I guess we could be called that, but, on the other hand, with Ken Vandermark doing P-Funk tunes and Jason Moran doing Afrika Baambata tunes, I'd figure all bets are off.

You should never stray too far from Dustygroove!!!! Damn, I envy you being in Chicago. Now THAT seems like a hip music town!

[Jim Alfredson]

I originally posted this as a new topic, but remembered this one. This thread hasn't been written to in over a year, but in my neck of the woods, the gig scene has actually gotten WORSE in the last year.

Here's the post I wrote tonight in a separate topic:

So I'm about to quit the R&B band I've been playing with for almost 7 years. It's been my main bread 'n butter gig and I love all the guys in the band but musically it hasn't been very satisfying for some time. I've wanted to quit many times before but the money has kept me from doing so.

Lately, however, this band -- which usually is booked solid every weekend -- has had less and less gigs. I attribute some of it to poor management, but a lot has to do with a dwindling gig scene. Since the gigs are getting slim (like in November we had three gigs... in January we have two) and musically it isn't fulfilling anymore, why do it?

Anyway, the real question is how is the gig scene in your neck of the woods these days? It's like pulling teeth, here. The trio has been working less and less since the summer as well. It's gotten really bad.

[Jim Alfredson]

For example, the trio is working with a booking agent and he's sent over 30 packages out to prospects, many of whom have expressed interest. But nobody will bite. He told me he's never seen anything like it. Club owners just don't want to commit.

The R&B band I'm about to quit played a gig the other weeknight for $75 a piece. That's fuckin' horrible. Our average is $150 a piece. This was a full gig, with a full sound system that we had to haul and set-up. Ridiculous.

With my wife on disability (she gets about 1/4 of her salary) things are really getting tight. Luckily we have a good paying New Year's gig this year. But after the money is in my hand from that gig, I'm giving them one-month to find another keyboardist.

[Harold_Z]

I think we're entering the dark ages...not to sound like the voice of doom, but the gig scene has been getting continuously worse in my neck of the woods (NYC/North Jersey) since the early 80s. Prior to that - the scene here was vibrant - more gigs than I could handle. By 1989 I had to get a day gig - and I wish I had done it sooner. I'd be making more now and my pension would look better.

The guys I know who are still full time are not doing well and have to give lessons - a constant hustle for students - unless you can teach in the public school system. Had my degree been in education and I could have gotten a job teaching in High School - Yeah !....If I had it to do over I'd take that route.

What gigs there are pay badly. I'm not involved in the rock scene so I really don't know what happening with that, but jazz gigs are few and far between and my instrument (elec bass) is out of favor. The blues scene is undermined by amateurs who will gig for little or no bread. The club date (catering hall scene) pays well, but is undermined by DJs. You have to play and sing and now I'm finding there is a lot of AGE discrimination happening - you have to look the part. What a lot of crap!

The general public was never hip, but now ? JEEESH !

Now and then a good little spurt of gigs comes along - but they are aberrations.

[JSngry]

Piss poor here, too. Two years ago, I was working regularly enough with seven different bands. Now it's down to two, and their work is not regular by any stretch of the imagination. The others threw in the towel. I now work, on the average, as much in a month as I used to in a week.

For the first time since 1979, when I was still a college student, I'm not booked for New Years. Yet. You never know. But I'm not holding out hope.

Undercutting for gigs has gotten to the point where some people are actually willing to lose money to work. I'll do that for the right type of music under the right circumstances, but these are "commercial" (in one form or another) bands I'm talking about. Nahgunna doooooo that. Sorry.

DJs, karaoke, the lack of people who care about being in an environment with live music, undercutting out the wazzoo, a poor disposable income economy in general, these are all factors. And no doubt there's more.

Whole 'nother world we got going on these days...

[uli]

I've gone to jazz clubs for quite a while and have seen some bad times before. But last week I worked at the bar for a gig where nobody showed up. Not one poor soul. And that on a Friday nite.