Interesting quote by Michael Cuscuna

[clifford_thornton]

I was trying to stick mostly to early '70s stuff.

That's really where the quote was coming from, as I understand it.

The Caligs are amazing. I second that recommendation!

[RDK]

It is a shame "availability" writes "history".

Ain't it the truth.

[Christiern]

The "screaming pretenders" were, indeed, on the scene in the '60s, and I used to wonder why. I concluded that mediocre musicians had finally found a development in jazz that readily obscured their shortcomings. I still think that was the case and I am not at all surprised to see that Michael Cuscuna can't come up with their names. I certainly couldn't--they were that forgettable.

[ep1str0phy]

You got me on the Brown Caligs, but having really listened to the BMGs and not the About Times I can see where that puts my "appreciation"--so I'll try to correct that.

As far as availability goes--Chuck, you were one of the few guys there, so you're doubtless in a better position to talk to the history than most of us here. The historical picture via documentation will lack, though folks will do their best (even some of the albums that CT and I mentioned will take some digging to find). The input of the "elders", however it comes, is appreciated.

That said--right about the 70's thing, Clifford, but some picture of the AACM as it's been "painted" at large has to deal with the 80's stuff, right? I think it may help flesh out what happened after the "screamers" went away. Props again for mentioning the Rashied Ali Quintet album with Ulmer--that one, of course, doesn't get enough love...

Edited May 15, 2007 by ep1str0phy

[ep1str0phy]

Oh, and re: Brown--I guess it would be wise to qualify the really relevant material there to just Geechee Reflections and Sweet Earth Flying. Those two are arguably two of Marion's most coherent suite/long form recordings, even when some of the other material of that time (such as Vista, also on Impulse) falls flat in many places.

[clifford_thornton]

That said--right about the 70's thing, Clifford, but some picture of the AACM as it's been "painted" at large has to deal with the 80's stuff, right? I think it may help flesh out what happened after the "screamers" went away.

Maybe... I really couldn't say. Might be interesting to get a picture of how the AACM's goals, etc. changed as many of its participants relocated to New York.

There will ALWAYS be screamers, won't there?

[ep1str0phy]

Hopefully we'll always have screamers and not "screamers"--like we'll always have some guys actually playing New Orleans Jazz (probably in New Orleans).

[JSngry]

Hopefully we'll always have screamers and not "screamers"...

Word.

[randyhersom]

Perhaps we have here an attempt to communicate to a real or imagined audience that is reluctant to embrace the avant-garde but just might be interested if convinced of its musicianship. Liner notes are the traditional place for puffery. I ain't buying any used cars from the guy, but I'll give him a little credit for trying. If he's bending the truth a bit to try and get just a couple more people to open their ears and listen, yeah I'll give him some slack.

[Simon Weil]

In the liner notes to the Sam Rivers Mosaic, Michael Cuscuna writes:

...Sam and Bea opened a performance space within their loft which they called Studio Rivbea. The emotional excesses of the sixties had subsided. The influx of creative technically proficient musicians from Chicago, St. Louis and Detroit shoved a lot of the screaming pretenders off the scene. Freedom was no longer equated with anger and lack of musicianship. Studio Rivbea became an incubator for a lot of serious, new developments in experimental jazz and the forerunner of an alternate way of presenting music in New York.

What do you think of this quote? Cuscuna is obviously presenting a very strong slant on history, but is there a grain of truth?

Guy

I would argue that "The influx of creative technically proficient musicians from Chicago, St. Louis and Detroit shoved a lot of the screaming pretenders off the scene" loses some very important factors. It doesn't take into account that probably the leaders of the screamers on the scene (to look at it through Cuscuna's eyes) were Ayler and Coltrane - and that these two people had died. So the quote would have to read ""The influx of creative technically proficient musicians from Chicago, St. Louis and Detroit shoved a lot of the screaming pretenders off the scene following the death of the leaders of that movement, Ayler and Coltrane". Moreover, nobody would (I hope) argue that Ayler and Coltrane were anything less than technically proficient - nor that their conception of Free was to be equated with anger. If you include Ayler and Coltrane, you lose that line about ". Freedom was no longer equated with anger and lack of musicianship."

So, if you go back and amend the quote in this light, you should get:

...Sam and Bea opened a performance space within their loft which they called Studio Rivbea. The emotional excesses of the sixties had subsided. The influx of creative technically proficient musicians from Chicago, St. Louis and Detroit shoved a lot of the screaming pretenders off the scene following the death of the leaders of that movement, Ayler and Coltrane". Studio Rivbea became an incubator for a lot of serious, new developments in experimental jazz and the forerunner of an alternate way of presenting music in New York.

Ayler asserted that "I have lived more than I can express in bop terms" and asked "why should I hold back the feeling of my life, of being raised in the ghetto of America?" To me this seems to bear on the problem of "emotional excesses". Clearly Ayler is saying that he had excessive emotion for expressing in bop, and the way the quote goes "It's a new truth now. And there have no be new ways of expressing the truth." suggests that his innovations are answer to this problem.

The implication of this is that there can be a new way of expressing the truth - that is of playing Jazz - which doesn't require bop techniques particularly. And that, therefore, when that new way goes out of fashion, its practioners may be found wanting.

I think you need to get past the anger.

Simon Weil