Barry Bonds quest for HR record

[Tim McG]

Nah.

Forget it.

Delude away, my misguided friend.

[BruceW]

I have been away for awhile.

I attempted to read every single post on the Bonds issue. No such luck, and certainlly not necessary.

I only offer this for everyone to consider or start an argument over:

If Bonds hits #756 at the age of 43 and it is because of steroids....

then how the hell did Aaron hit 755? and

How the hell did Ruth hist 714 way back when "it couldn't be done?"

just some thoughts for all the analysts

[Dan Gould]

I have been away for awhile.

I attempted to read every single post on the Bonds issue. No such luck, and certainlly not necessary.

I only offer this for everyone to consider or start an argument over:

If Bonds hits #756 at the age of 43 and it is because of steroids....

then how the hell did Aaron hit 755? and

How the hell did Ruth hist 714 way back when "it couldn't be done?"

just some thoughts for all the analysts

Hank Aaron was a consistent, steady home run hitter throughout his career:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml

You may note that he never hit more than 47 in his career, but also never hit fewer than 24 per year until his final three seasons.

Ruth was the home run king and until the steroid age, was alone in the number of 55+ home run seasons in history. He was a uniquely talented baseball player, not only very strong but also playing in a ballpark designed for his lefthanded swing. To say that it "couldn't be done" is simply foolish. Ruth was the first slugger and fittingly wore the home run crown until Hank caught him.

As has been noted many times, until the end of the 1998 season, Barry Bonds was a solid but far from spectacular home run hitter (iirc, I think he hit a home run every 18 at bats or so). After that season, when his steroid use began, his home run hitting skyrocketed, to the rate of hitting a home run more than every ninth at bat.

The fact that this home run splurge coincided with his steroid use and also coincided with what is supposed to be the athletic decline of virtually every power hitter in baseball history, is surely indicative that he isn't exactly "The Natural".

Last point is this: No one claims that Bonds hit all of his home runs because of steroids. Without them, he was headed toward a highly respectable lifetime total of probably 500 or maybe 550. But that wasn't going to be enough for a man with his gargantuan ego. No, he hated the fact that McGuire and Sosa were getting all the attention when all things considered, he was the better all-around player. This was the reason Barry started using, the steroids are why Bonds hit about 200 more homers than he otherwise would have.

Its really very simple.

[BruceW]

I have been away for awhile.

I attempted to read every single post on the Bonds issue. No such luck, and certainlly not necessary.

I only offer this for everyone to consider or start an argument over:

If Bonds hits #756 at the age of 43 and it is because of steroids....

then how the hell did Aaron hit 755? and

How the hell did Ruth hist 714 way back when "it couldn't be done?"

just some thoughts for all the analysts

Hank Aaron was a consistent, steady home run hitter throughout his career:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml

You may note that he never hit more than 47 in his career, but also never hit fewer than 24 per year until his final three seasons.

Ruth was the home run king and until the steroid age, was alone in the number of 55+ home run seasons in history. He was a uniquely talented baseball player, not only very strong but also playing in a ballpark designed for his lefthanded swing. To say that it "couldn't be done" is simply foolish. Ruth was the first slugger and fittingly wore the home run crown until Hank caught him.

As has been noted many times, until the end of the 1998 season, Barry Bonds was a solid but far from spectacular home run hitter (iirc, I think he hit a home run every 18 at bats or so). After that season, when his steroid use began, his home run hitting skyrocketed, to the rate of hitting a home run more than every ninth at bat.

The fact that this home run splurge coincided with his steroid use and also coincided with what is supposed to be the athletic decline of virtually every power hitter in baseball history, is surely indicative that he isn't exactly "The Natural".

Last point is this: No one claims that Bonds hit all of his home runs because of steroids. Without them, he was headed toward a highly respectable lifetime total of probably 500 or maybe 550. But that wasn't going to be enough for a man with his gargantuan ego. No, he hated the fact that McGuire and Sosa were getting all the attention when all things considered, he was the better all-around player. This was the reason Barry started using, the steroids are why Bonds hit about 200 more homers than he otherwise would have.

Its really very simple.

Sounds like you got it all "figured out." Ruth is clean, Aaron is clean, Bonds is dirty. At any rate, I threw that out for all you guys to analyse not to disect what I said as gospel. Lets make that clear. Thanks.

BUT, having said that, why are there always very clean "good guy" explanations for Ruth and Aaron. I am not saying they took anything, but training was different between Ruth and Aaron and Aaron and Bonds. Look how many years between Ruth and Aaron; and Aaron and Bonds, and training regimens. If I recall, as of yet Bonds has not been convicted of anything yet. So why was it so impossible for someone 40 + years later to break Aaron's record?? Even Bonds record is going to be broken and are you going to accuse the person who breaks his?? All this is food for thought, nothing else. I personally don't declare whether he was on steriods or not.

Many say Yankee stadium was made for Ruth, short porch in left; well so is the stadium in San Francisco very very accomodating for lefty Bonds.

One thing I do stand by is this; you got to hit the ball first; and because there are so many on steriods why aren't they all hitting record breaking homeruns?

Have more fun guys

[trane_fanatic]

You may want to try something called a Google search. I am not going to post hateful remarks on here.

Ah, perhaps I should try "Barry Bonds is a damn nigger" and see if that comes up with any hits.

I'll say it flat out:

I don't know of any racist comments about Barry Bonds anywhere, though I will admit that I have not gone and done any searches on the Klan's BBS.

What I do know is that certain people, lining up these facts:

Bonds isn't much liked by a lot of people

Bonds "set" the season and career home run records

Bonds is black

and have come to the conclusion that criticism of Bonds is, in some undetermined proportion, driven by racial animus.

I say bull shit. Whether the race card is played with a broad stroke or the phrase "shades of", its simple an effort to deflect the legitimate criticism and factual basis for a belief that he cheated.

I have neither the time nor energy to get pulled into your extreme anti-Bonds obsession, so sermonize and rant all you want. I really doubt that you are omniscient and know all the facts. If he is guilty, then the judicial system and nature will have their day with him. So friggin' what if he did use steroids? How does that affect your well-being and why the supreme level of anger? And don't you dare insinuate that I am playing the race card. You don't know me at all to start launching personal attacks. You have your view and I'll have mine, capiche? Let's leave it at that.

Edited September 28, 2007 by trane_fanatic

[Dan Gould]

I have been away for awhile.

I attempted to read every single post on the Bonds issue. No such luck, and certainlly not necessary.

I only offer this for everyone to consider or start an argument over:

If Bonds hits #756 at the age of 43 and it is because of steroids....

then how the hell did Aaron hit 755? and

How the hell did Ruth hist 714 way back when "it couldn't be done?"

just some thoughts for all the analysts

Hank Aaron was a consistent, steady home run hitter throughout his career:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml

You may note that he never hit more than 47 in his career, but also never hit fewer than 24 per year until his final three seasons.

Ruth was the home run king and until the steroid age, was alone in the number of 55+ home run seasons in history. He was a uniquely talented baseball player, not only very strong but also playing in a ballpark designed for his lefthanded swing. To say that it "couldn't be done" is simply foolish. Ruth was the first slugger and fittingly wore the home run crown until Hank caught him.

As has been noted many times, until the end of the 1998 season, Barry Bonds was a solid but far from spectacular home run hitter (iirc, I think he hit a home run every 18 at bats or so). After that season, when his steroid use began, his home run hitting skyrocketed, to the rate of hitting a home run more than every ninth at bat.

The fact that this home run splurge coincided with his steroid use and also coincided with what is supposed to be the athletic decline of virtually every power hitter in baseball history, is surely indicative that he isn't exactly "The Natural".

Last point is this: No one claims that Bonds hit all of his home runs because of steroids. Without them, he was headed toward a highly respectable lifetime total of probably 500 or maybe 550. But that wasn't going to be enough for a man with his gargantuan ego. No, he hated the fact that McGuire and Sosa were getting all the attention when all things considered, he was the better all-around player. This was the reason Barry started using, the steroids are why Bonds hit about 200 more homers than he otherwise would have.

Its really very simple.

Sounds like you got it all "figured out." Ruth is clean, Aaron is clean, Bonds is dirty. At any rate, I threw that out for all you guys to analyse not to disect what I said as gospel. Lets make that clear. Thanks.

BUT, having said that, why are there always very clean "good guy" explanations for Ruth and Aaron. I am not saying they took anything, but training was different between Ruth and Aaron and Aaron and Bonds. Look how many years between Ruth and Aaron; and Aaron and Bonds, and training regimens. If I recall, as of yet Bonds has not been convicted of anything yet. So why was it so impossible for someone 40 + years later to break Aaron's record?? Even Bonds record is going to be broken and are you going to accuse the person who breaks his?? All this is food for thought, nothing else. I personally don't declare whether he was on steriods or not.

Many say Yankee stadium was made for Ruth, short porch in left; well so is the stadium in San Francisco very very accomodating for lefty Bonds.

One thing I do stand by is this; you got to hit the ball first; and because there are so many on steriods why aren't they all hitting record breaking homeruns?

Have more fun guys

If he stays healthy and chooses to play long enough, A-Rod will put our long national nightmare behind us. And no one will accuse him of using steroids because there is no evidence of it. A-Rod will not have displayed a remarkable increase in home run hitting skill at an age when athletic performance declines for every other power hitter in history. He is close as you can get to the anti-Bonds in that regard.

And that "you got to hit the ball first" BS. Everyone understands that when you reach the majors and stay, you have the ability to hit the ball when it is thrown by the best pitchers. This has always been about muscle mass attained by illegal means and its effect on the distance a batted ball flies.

Goodie can bloviate all he wants. Everyone else understands why stronger players swing faster and transfer more power to the ball, resulting in more home runs.

[Dan Gould]

You may want to try something called a Google search. I am not going to post hateful remarks on here.

Ah, perhaps I should try "Barry Bonds is a damn nigger" and see if that comes up with any hits.

I'll say it flat out:

I don't know of any racist comments about Barry Bonds anywhere, though I will admit that I have not gone and done any searches on the Klan's BBS.

What I do know is that certain people, lining up these facts:

Bonds isn't much liked by a lot of people

Bonds "set" the season and career home run records

Bonds is black

and have come to the conclusion that criticism of Bonds is, in some undetermined proportion, driven by racial animus.

I say bull shit. Whether the race card is played with a broad stroke or the phrase "shades of", its simple an effort to deflect the legitimate criticism and factual basis for a belief that he cheated.

I have neither the time nor energy to get pulled into your extreme anti-Bonds obsession, so sermonize and rant all you want. I really doubt that you are omniscient and know all the facts. If he is guilty, then the judicial system and nature will have their day with him. So friggin' what if he did use steroids? How does that affect your well-being and why the supreme level of anger? And don't you dare insinuate that I am playing the race card. You don't know me at all to start launching personal attacks. You have your view and I'll have mine, capiche? Let's leave it at that.

So, because I believe that Bonds cheated to achieve the record, I have a "supreme level of anger"? And somehow my belief affects "my wellbeing"?

Try to understand something:

Any hatred that has come out in this thread is directed at the nonsensical delusions spouted by Goodspeak. I don't suffer fools gladly, so when fools post things that have no basis in reality, things that are disputed by every other member who has posted in this thread, yeah, a little anger rises to the surface.

[Tim McG]

You may want to try something called a Google search. I am not going to post hateful remarks on here.

Ah, perhaps I should try "Barry Bonds is a damn nigger" and see if that comes up with any hits.

I'll say it flat out:

I don't know of any racist comments about Barry Bonds anywhere, though I will admit that I have not gone and done any searches on the Klan's BBS.

What I do know is that certain people, lining up these facts:

Bonds isn't much liked by a lot of people

Bonds "set" the season and career home run records

Bonds is black

and have come to the conclusion that criticism of Bonds is, in some undetermined proportion, driven by racial animus.

I say bull shit. Whether the race card is played with a broad stroke or the phrase "shades of", its simple an effort to deflect the legitimate criticism and factual basis for a belief that he cheated.

I have neither the time nor energy to get pulled into your extreme anti-Bonds obsession, so sermonize and rant all you want. I really doubt that you are omniscient and know all the facts. If he is guilty, then the judicial system and nature will have their day with him. So friggin' what if he did use steroids? How does that affect your well-being and why the supreme level of anger? And don't you dare insinuate that I am playing the race card. You don't know me at all to start launching personal attacks. You have your view and I'll have mine, capiche? Let's leave it at that.

So, because I believe that Bonds cheated to achieve the record, I have a "supreme level of anger"? And somehow my belief affects "my wellbeing"?

Try to understand something:

Any hatred that has come out in this thread is directed at the nonsensical delusions spouted by Goodspeak. I don't suffer fools gladly, so when fools post things that have no basis in reality, things that are disputed by every other member who has posted in this thread, yeah, a little anger rises to the surface.

Oh bullshit, Dan.

Believe it? Hell, you've already convicted him and without a shred of court admissible evidence. Your anger comes from the fact I called you on it and you don't like that. Admit it. And the only thing you got in return is spit and vinegar....then you blame me? Wow.

Tell me, Dan....do I control you somehow? Are you my puppet on a string?

Take responsibility for your own spew, Dan....nobody forced you to run off at the mouth with obscenity laced tirade after over-the-top vulgarism. YOU made that choice. I didn't force you to do anything that wasn't already a part of your belligerence toward any poster here with the guts to blow your arguments clean out of the water....then stand up to your vitriol.

Don't fob that "well, he made me do it" shit off onto me, Danny.

You said it and you own it.

Amazing arrogance.

Edited September 30, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

Oh and thhbbbtttt

[Dan Gould]

You may want to try something called a Google search. I am not going to post hateful remarks on here.

Ah, perhaps I should try "Barry Bonds is a damn nigger" and see if that comes up with any hits.

I'll say it flat out:

I don't know of any racist comments about Barry Bonds anywhere, though I will admit that I have not gone and done any searches on the Klan's BBS.

What I do know is that certain people, lining up these facts:

Bonds isn't much liked by a lot of people

Bonds "set" the season and career home run records

Bonds is black

and have come to the conclusion that criticism of Bonds is, in some undetermined proportion, driven by racial animus.

I say bull shit. Whether the race card is played with a broad stroke or the phrase "shades of", its simple an effort to deflect the legitimate criticism and factual basis for a belief that he cheated.

I have neither the time nor energy to get pulled into your extreme anti-Bonds obsession, so sermonize and rant all you want. I really doubt that you are omniscient and know all the facts. If he is guilty, then the judicial system and nature will have their day with him. So friggin' what if he did use steroids? How does that affect your well-being and why the supreme level of anger? And don't you dare insinuate that I am playing the race card. You don't know me at all to start launching personal attacks. You have your view and I'll have mine, capiche? Let's leave it at that.

So, because I believe that Bonds cheated to achieve the record, I have a "supreme level of anger"? And somehow my belief affects "my wellbeing"?

Try to understand something:

Any hatred that has come out in this thread is directed at the nonsensical delusions spouted by Goodspeak. I don't suffer fools gladly, so when fools post things that have no basis in reality, things that are disputed by every other member who has posted in this thread, yeah, a little anger rises to the surface.

Oh bullshit, Dan.

Believe it? Hell, you've already convicted him and without a shred of court admissible evidence. Your anger comes from the fact I called you on it and you don't like that. Admit it. And the only thing you got in return is spit and vinegar....then you blame me? Wow.

Tell me, Dan....do I control you somehow? Are you my puppet on a string?

Take responsibility for your own spew, Dan....nobody forced you to run off at the mouth with obscenity laced tirade after over-the-top vulgarism. YOU made that choice. I didn't force you to do anything that wasn't already a part of your belligerence toward any poster here with the guts to blow your arguments clean out of the water....then stand up to your vitriol.

Don't fob that "well, he made me do it" shit off onto me, Danny.

You said it and you own it.

Amazing arrogance.

You remain a laughable, contemptible fool.

If you believe that there isn't "a shred of court admissible evidence" then it is apparent that you are truly ignorant of, as they say, the facts and the law.

[Tim McG]

Uh-huh.

You mean to tell me you have absoluely no control over your own behavior....?

So I manipulate you, is that it?

Give it a rest, Dan.

I am not your anger manager and I am sure as hell not responsible for your abusive posts, OK?

[Jazzmoose]

You mean to tell me you have absoluely no control over your own behavior....?

Damn, GoodSpeak, it took you long enough to figure it out!

[Tim McG]

You mean to tell me you have absoluely no control over your own behavior....?

Damn, GoodSpeak, it took you long enough to figure it out!

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt....and the space to make it right.

Seriously, I still hold out hope that Dan will, one day, actually catch the big giant clue I'm sending him.

We can only hope.

Edited October 1, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Chalupa]

Now that Marion Jones has confessed maybe Barry will man up and do the right thing too????

Nah.

Edited October 12, 2007 by J.H. Deeley

[Chalupa]

ESPN.com: Baseball

Friday, October 12, 2007

Sources: Mitchell's report to reveal many names

By Buster Olney

ESPN The Magazine

Sources familiar with the latest developments in the George Mitchell steroids investigation said Friday that the report will name many players, including some big names and some names that have not surfaced to date.

In a conference call Friday with all 30 teams, Tom Carlucci of the San Francisco-based law firm Foley & Lardner advised them on the status of Mitchell's probe into the use of performance-enhancing drugs in Major League Baseball.

One source said, "This is going to be enormous ... it's going to be a huge story when these names come out."

The former U.S. Senate Majority Leader's report is expected to be released between Oct. 31 and the end of the year.

MLB vice president Rob Manfred said that Carlucci has no idea what information is in the report.

"No one except Senator Mitchell's people know for sure whether there's going to be names named and how many names are involved and who those names are," Manfred said Friday.

Albany County District Attorney David Soares, whose own investigation aimed to shut down a major supply line of illegal prescription drugs and "was never about cleaning up sports," has met with representatives from the Mitchell Commission.

The New York Times reported last month that the names of 10 more baseball players turned up on a list of clients at the Florida pharmacy at the center of Soares' investigation into illegal steroid sales.

Heather Orth, a spokeswoman for Soares, said Thursday she was not sure exactly what information had been turned over to Major League Baseball but said the DA's office has not given the league a list of players.

[Tim McG]

Now that Marion Jones has confessed maybe Barry will man up and do the right thing too????

Nah.

Right.

As if.

[Jazzmoose]

KILL THIS FUCKING THREAD OR I WILL START FILLING IT FULL OF POSTS ABOUT EATING SANDWICHES WITH UNFORTUNATE JAZZ MUSICIANS I CORNER ON THE PHONE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chalupa]

KILL THIS FUCKING THREAD OR I WILL START FILLING IT FULL OF POSTS ABOUT EATING SANDWICHES WITH UNFORTUNATE JAZZ MUSICIANS I CORNER ON THE PHONE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean like this?

Posts: 10310 | From: tx, usa | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

Joe Christmas

Member

Member # 119

posted April 10, 2001 07:47 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right on Aric. That must have been exciting for all three of you. What did he say?

Wait, I can hear the conversation now...

_________________________________________

MATT and ARIC sharing the same phone line: Dude! Hellyeah! We got his number!

(RING)

ARIC: Okay now, shhhh.

(RING)

ELDERLY WOMAN: Donaldson residence.

ARIC: Yes, uhm, is Lou there?

ELDERLY WOMAN: With whom am I speaking?

ARIC: Oh. Jeez. It's.....Hank?

ELDERLY WOMAN: Hold on please.

(silence as she puts the phone down)

MATT: Hank?? HELLYEAH!!! You're the man, Aric.

ARIC: I know. Shut up, Matt. He might hear us.

MATT: Sorry.

LOU: ahem. Mmmhello?

ARIC: Lou?

LOU: Yes?

MATT and ARIC in unison: HELLYEAH!!!!!!!!!!!

LOU: Who is this?

ARIC: Well Lou, my name is Aric and I love Blue Note and you're the man and I have your number and I thought I'd call and tell you how great that you are.

MATT: Hellyeah.

LOU: Who's that there?

MATT: I'm Matt. I'm in the other room.

LOU: Oh. Well, thank you young man. What can I do for you?

ARIC: Remember in 1954 when you came charging in with that kickass line after Horace did that vamp and then ya'll returned to the head and you just wailed?

LOU: I think so. Yes.

ARIC: That rocked.

MATT: Hellyeah!!!!!!!!!!

ARIC: Hellyeah.

LOU: Well, thank you Aric. So you a jazz fan, huh?

ARIC: Sheeit. Oh my god you just don't know, Lou. I am so ****ed up right now and you're on the phone and this is the coolest thing in Holy **** I'm ****ing talking to Lou ***ing Donaldson **** ******* ***!!!!!

LOU: Okay.

MATT: You're the bomb Mr. Donaldson.

LOU: Usually my fans write or say hello to me in person.

ARIC: Can we come see you?

LOU: No.

ARIC: I understand. You're probably busy as all hell, huh sir?

LOU: Yes.

ARIC: So that cover for HERE 'TIS is phat. Could you tell me what it is that you're giving that guy on the cover? Is it a buck or somethin'?

LOU: No. It's a sammich.

MATT: A sandwich?

LOU: Yes.

ARIC: He said sammich!! How dope is that? Hellyeah. I play organ and I know some of your tunes from your funky period.

LOU: Well thank you. Say, I need to split. My oven roast is ready. The hot rolls too.

ARIC: Gravy Train.

LOU: Gravy Train.

MATT: Hellyeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARIC: Can we call you again, Lou?

LOU: Anytime. This was a nice conversation.

ARIC: Right on. You rock.

MATT: Yeah.

LOU: Ok now. Thanks for the cheer. God bless you.

ARIC: Bye Lou.

MATT: Bye Mr. Donaldson.

LOU: Goodbye now.

(click)

MATT and ARIC in unison: Holy ****ing **** ******* ************* **** ***!!!!

ARIC: That was soooooo phat.

MATT: Today was a good day.

ARIC: Yeah.

______________________

[Tim McG]

Well GEEZ, JH Deeley...what the hell were you thinking anyway?

Dead issue.

Move ON, fer cryin' out loud.

[Tim McG]

KILL THIS FUCKING THREAD OR I WILL START FILLING IT FULL OF POSTS ABOUT EATING SANDWICHES WITH UNFORTUNATE JAZZ MUSICIANS I CORNER ON THE PHONE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you, Jazzmoose.

[Jazzmoose]

Thanks JH; I was drawing a blank on who the musician was...

[catesta]

ARIC: He said sammich!! How dope is that? Hellyeah. I play organ and I know some of your tunes from your funky period.

______________________

Those were the good old days.

[Van Basten II]

KILL THIS FUCKING THREAD OR I WILL START FILLING IT FULL OF POSTS ABOUT EATING SANDWICHES WITH UNFORTUNATE JAZZ MUSICIANS I CORNER ON THE PHONE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean like this?

Posts: 10310 | From: tx, usa | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

Joe Christmas

Member

Member # 119

posted April 10, 2001 07:47 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right on Aric. That must have been exciting for all three of you. What did he say?

Wait, I can hear the conversation now...

_________________________________________

MATT and ARIC sharing the same phone line: Dude! Hellyeah! We got his number!

(RING)

ARIC: Okay now, shhhh.

(RING)

ELDERLY WOMAN: Donaldson residence.

ARIC: Yes, uhm, is Lou there?

ELDERLY WOMAN: With whom am I speaking?

ARIC: Oh. Jeez. It's.....Hank?

ELDERLY WOMAN: Hold on please.

(silence as she puts the phone down)

MATT: Hank?? HELLYEAH!!! You're the man, Aric.

......

______________________

Is there a tape of that thing, we should be able to download it

[Chalupa]

Bonds says he'll boycott Hall if record-setting ball has asterisk

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?i...e=ESPNHeadlines

[BERIGAN]

Bonds says he'll boycott Hall if record-setting ball has asterisk

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?i...e=ESPNHeadlines

Man, that's just a win-win proposition!!!