Soulstation1 Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 i'm going with oscar, even though i'd like to see oscar's face get f*cked up. oscar has soemthing to prove and if he loses, he loses some $$$$$$. oscar by 8/9 ss1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Sugar Shane knocks the crap out of pretty boy.It may not be a knockout but pretty boy probably wishes that it would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Yeah, Oscar's persona kinda bugs me, but sorry folks, Mosley is going down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 I placed a very uneducated vote for Oscar. I just remember Mosley getting wacked a couple of times by another fellah. He probably isn't the same fighter he was. Oscar is as bad, ooops, I mean as good as he ever was. I just suspect he hasn't gone downhill as much as Mosley has, but then again I don't know that much about boxing anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacman Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Mosley in a decision. i don't think De La Hoya is hungry enough. should be a good fight tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted September 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 anyone see the fight last night? did oscar really get robbed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjazz Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 oscar has soemthing to prove and if he loses, he loses some $$$$$$. oscar by 8/9 ss1 Money???? Oscar gets at least 17 million and he offers to give up 500K, if he loses. That's 16.5 million plus a percentage of the cable viewership. Easy money. At least 3 times as much as the other guy. This is CELEBRATY BOXING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 I did see the fight, and I did think De La Hoya got robbed, big time. Mosley certainly did not fight badly, particularly in the second half, but he didn't win a majority of rounds, he never seriously hurt De La Hoya, and for god's sake he's the CHALLENGER, he should have to soundly beat the champ to take the belt! The BEST that could be argued by the opposition was that he scratched out a draw, but even that is highly suspect. Lederman and all the commentators had De La Hoya by a sizeable margin, and the crowd was clearly stunned with the decision. Geez, even Mosley's own corner was in a panic, telling him he was losing (and you could tell it wasn't just a ploy, his dad looked about ready to have a stroke) and urging him on to a desperation offensive in the last couple rounds to go for a knock-down and try to bail himself out! This whole debacle reminds me of why I had sworn off watching pro boxing some time ago, and I'm sorry I backslided. Some serious fixing was going on here, folks...it stinks pretty badly. I don't feel "sorry" for De La Hoya himself, who made a mint anyway and was probably involved in the shenanigans, but I do feel like I was duped and like it won't happen again - no mas, I'm done with pro boxing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 The ESPN guys who were at ringside thought that the decision was correct. Personally I don't care. Boxing has been consistently the most corrupt "sport" and I really don't think much has changed. It will be interesting however to see if Oscar follows through with his threatend legal action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 I think his threat is totally ridiculous, an overreaction in the moment of losing a decision. Corruption has nothing to do with it-different eyes see different things. One set of eyes may see superior defense, another may see "harder" punches. But as I understand it, Mosley won because he won something like the last four rounds on every card. Well, then the only claim De La Hoya can make is if those last four rounds weren't competitive or were De La Hoya's rounds on everyone else's cards. But they weren't. Oscar is embarassing himself, IMO. Its time to either go back on his promise and continue to fight, or go make another record. But it all reminds me of Alexis Arguello and Aaron Pryor. Arguello was one of the great fighters of his era, but try as he did, he could never figure out how to beat Pryor. They had some brutal wars but Pryor always won, and at some point you have to stand up and tip your hat to the better man. And I think that De La Hoya knows that Mosley is the better man, because he said he doesn't want a third fight, even though it would be huge, certainly. He said "he's beaten me twice". Well, if you really believe you won the second time and you were robbed, then you can surely "beat" him given a third chance. otherwise, you just pull a Marvin Hagler and walk away from boxing forever, out of sheer disgust over what you thought was a travesty. But don't pretend that some "investigation" is needed. The parameters of this decision are so far within the norms of boxing judges, De La Hoya is only hurting himself by pursuing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Dan when I refer to boxing as corrupt I'm not just referring to this fight but to boxing as a whole. Since I didn't see this fight it would hard for me say this paticular fight was rigged. The fight industry as a whole in it's history and especially in it's history in our lifetimes has been riddled with corruption maybe not in this fight but boxing and corruption are not strangers to one another but I'm not going to say the fix is on in every fight that simply isn't true but boxing,corrupt fight politics and criminal behavior have crossed paths more than once. At one time I was a boxing enthusiast but the chicanery that has been used by the overload of boxing associations turned me off personally. The time I was really interested in boxing was the time Alexis Arguello reigned supreme. Alexis took titles from Ruben Olivarez(no relation as far as I know),Alfredo Escealara and James Watt in either their home towns or home countries or both now THATs impressive. I agree with you though that in his fights with Pryor that Aaron was the better man but after those wars neither was the same afterwards.Another reason I really don't care for boxing anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Some interesting comments made in this thread. Dan points out that different eyes see different things in a fight. This is very true. I recall during my years in Thailand watching fights on TV when visiting Latino fighters would come into town to fight local Thai fighters. These fighters were little guys: flyweights, straweights, maybe bantams. I'm generalizing here, but the Latino fighters would come in trying to left hook their way in, while the Thai fighters would move (and take punches) and try to counterpunch. It was frustrating for me, because in my eyes the Latinos deserved to win, but the decisions invariably went to the Thai fighters. I got angry and assumed these were hometown decisions. Then I started watching Muay Thai boxers. Again, the aggressors would get my vote while the more defensive fighter would invariably win the decision. I slowly came to realize that what I viewed as a fighter gaining points was not shared by the locals. They viewed defence and some manner of grace as more worthy of points. They simply saw the fights through different sets of eyes. Another comment: Hagler did quit owing to the disgust over losing to Sugar Ray, but in my opinion, Sugar Ray did beat him and deserved to win. Yes, Hagler threw the harder shots, but Sugar Ray outboxed him. I think Hagler knew that as well. I no longer watch boxing owing to bum decisions and I cannot take the brutality anymore, but I've got good memories of older fights, such as the Arguello-Pryor wars. Arguello came so close, but Pryor was too big and strong as a real Junior Welterweight. Arguello landed that famous right hand and Pryor just soaked them up. Amazing fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 (edited) I want to CLEARLY disentangle myself from De La Hoya's protest - that is NOT something I am advocating. I think however it happened, he lost, and he should just eat it and move on. As I indicated above, I'm not much of a De La Hoya fan to begin with, but he deserved the victory. If anyone actually saw the interview with him after the fight, those who don't like him might like him more...he was AMAZINGLY gracious toward Mosley and calm and composed. He wasn't ranting and raving saying he wanted to protest, just stated that it was something he would consider. Can't say I blame him, but I think he'll drop it after the heat dies down. However, I am saying that is was clear to anyone who understands boxing in the least that Mosely did not win this fight. Again, at BEST, you MIGHT be able to argue a draw. But even assuming he won the last 4 rounds (which he did not, although I felt he took 2 or 3 of the last 4), that is not enough to win a 12 round fight, particularly because he didn't run away with those rounds he did win by ANY stretch of the imagination. De La Hoya outpunched (and outlanded those punches) Mosley for at least the first 8 rounds, often by a 3 to 1 or more margin...this is not my opinion, the figures from the punch counters spoke for themselves. What happened in the last 4 would have had to be disastrous to lose, and Mosely did not look very convincing even in those rounds I gave him. Any sport that has judging involved that is largely hidden from the public eye is subject to major corruption. Boxing has had its scandals, figure skating and gymnastics have had theirs...these aren't alleged, mind you, they have been proven, with the parties involved fessing up after the fact. So I'm sorry, but this crap happens over and over again in boxing, and it was clearly at work again in this fight. Anyone that would defend boxing's reputation is either really brave or really foolish, because that is known as going out on an EXTREMELY creaky and thin limb. Dan, I have to ask - did you actually watch the fight? If not, I would suggest you withold comment until after seeing it, this was not De La Hoya being whiny, he was a class act the whole way and both outboxed AND outpunched Mosley for the majority of the 12 rounds. I think you'll understand the flap more after you see the fight, if you haven't. If you have, well, I guess we see things a LOT differently when it comes to boxing! Edited September 16, 2003 by DrJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 (edited) Is it too late to vote? Edited September 17, 2003 by catesta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacman Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 wooohooo i guessed right, too bad i didn't bet. but, i figured if the fix was in, the decision would have gone to Del La Hoya. that would have neccesitated(sp?) fight 3, and generated even more cash. i agree the fight game is very corrupt, but i was raised around boxers, (dad, uncles) so i still watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Tony, I did not see the fight, I was going by my understanding of the non-official scorers judgements of the fight-as noted above, ESPN commentators agreed with the decision, so your judgement isn't exactly universal. As for De La Hoya's comments, the ones I saw and reacted to were the ones after the game when he spoke of how boxing couldn't "take" decisions like this, as if he would finance an investigation not to get the decision overturned but to preserve boxing's "integrity". That's like trying to preserve a whore's virginity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Any sport that has to be decided by judges is bullshit. I'll pass on boxing and figure skating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzdog Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Is is too late to vote? aparently not!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 So if I read the thread correctly, I can actually get this one right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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