Songs, words, singers

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Just read this thread about Herbie Hancock ignoring the words.

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...c=38034&hl=

Come on, folks, spill it! What's wrong with songs, singers and the words (in general, I mean, not any specific song like "How much is that doggie in the window?").

MG

[JSngry]

No problem here, but I might be in the minority.

Or not. We'll see!

[Jim Alfredson]

There are too many mediocre and downright BAD singers, especially in jazz, especially now. I love lyrics and singing as much or more than anyone, having been in choirs in high school and college and singing for the better part of my life. Words and music go together like paint and canvas.

But bad singers, especially bad female singers, are as plentiful as bacteria.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Yeah, but I see some people seem to dislike them all, good, bad or indifferent. And I just wonder why...

MG

[Chuck Nessa]

Maybe they just spent a lot of time around singers. There is an allergy.

[Noj]

I rarely heard music without a singer growing up. I used to prize the few instrumental tracks I knew, those weird interludes on rock and rap albums. It was relieving, like "at last, they put a lid on the singer." Then I discovered there's a whole world of instrumental music out there, so I indulged heavily in it. I've largely ignored jazz singers for this reason.

[Free For All]

I like singers just fine and (as a instrumentalist) I believe in being aware of the lyrics to tunes, especially ballads.

I'm not a fan of singers "scatting" (with a few exceptions). The majority has little or no concept of swing, melody, rhythm and ESPECIALLY chord changes.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Free For All

[jazzbo]

In my third decade of listening to jazz music I turned to singers. I'd listened with attention only to Billie, Louis and Tea, Triple Threat and Fats before I began to delve deeper.

I mostly like the ladies. . . Una Mae. . . June. . .Dinah. . .Peggy. . . Haddah. . . .No surprise I guess! But I do like jazz singing. A lot.

[kh1958]

I like singers. I do find that there are only a relatively small number of jazz singers that I like. But since I also like blues, Brazilian, Mexican, South American, and African music, there are lots of great singers in those fields to enjoy.

[Noj]

There's always more to discover in jazz. I'll probably go on a female jazz vocalists binge one of these years.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Maybe they just spent a lot of time around singers. There is an allergy.

Chuck, reading between the line, I sense you're an anti. Care to explain why?

MG

[Ron S]

I'm not a fan of singers "scatting" (with a few exceptions). The majority has little or no concept of swing, melody, rhythm and ESPECIALLY chord changes.

I was kinda disappointed that there's no scatting on this:

EDIT: BTW, you should check out the track samples currently on Amazon--you may be a bit surprised:

http://www.amazon.com/Gallery-Paul-McKee/d...7103&sr=1-4

Edited December 20, 2007 by Ron S

[Free For All]

EDIT: BTW, you should check out the track samples currently on Amazon--you may be a bit surprised:

http://www.amazon.com/Gallery-Paul-McKee/d...7103&sr=1-4

I know. Probably sold more w/the wrong samples.

[Ron S]

EDIT: BTW, you should check out the track samples currently on Amazon--you may be a bit surprised:

http://www.amazon.com/Gallery-Paul-McKee/d...7103&sr=1-4

I know. Probably sold more w/the wrong samples.

At least AMG has the right samples (which, by the way, are INFINITELY better ).

[DukeCity]

Like JimA said, there are just so many mediocre-to-bad singers, that a lot of (instrumental) musicians like me get pretty...uh...cautious. That being said, most of my gigs these days are backing up local singers. The one I work with most is a fine singer and she's one of my best friends. But we laugh about the first time we met. I was playing a gig with an organ trio and she and another singer dropped by the club. The bandleader knew them and invited them to sit in. I was thinking, "Oh great, a couple of damn chick singers! Shit!" and apparently I was wearing those thoughts on my sleeve, because my friend remembers me giving her quite a chilly reception as she came to the bandstand. Well, she sang her ass off, and my worst fears were NOT confirmed, but I still tend to keep those shields up when facing new "chick singers".

[Van Basten II]

I 'm gonna pick the big elephant in the room that nobody wants to see, a little snobbishnesh since singers especially females are generally the rare artists that generally make some waves outside the confidential niche that is jazz, and of course if it's popular it can not be good.

I have a few friends who for whatever reasons dislike singers and since i do see a few gigs involving singers they look at me as a guy who likes singers a little bit the same way that if i were gay.

I do agree that they are so many ordinary singers that are so all over the place that they tend to make us forgetting the good ones.

[Joe G]

There's no shortage of bad guitar, trumpet, sax, drums, et al...

[MoGrubb]

I've read about Herbie's views on singing/singers before. It's not a question/matter of whether the singer's good or not, or whether the lyrics are worth a shit, it's a matter of (natural) focus, the attention is focused on musical tones and rhythm. I like it like that.

Edited December 21, 2007 by MoGrubb

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I've read about Herbie's views on singing/singers before. It's not a question/matter of whether the singer's good or not, or whether the lyrics are worth a shit, it's a matter of (natural) focus, the attention is focused on musical tones and rhythm. I like it like that.

Is it really a natural focus or something that's learned? I can't truly believe some people are born like that.

MG

[MoGrubb]

I've read about Herbie's views on singing/singers before. It's not a question/matter of whether the singer's good or not, or whether the lyrics are worth a shit, it's a matter of (natural) focus, the attention is focused on musical tones and rhythm. I like it like that.

Is it really a natural focus or something that's learned? I can't truly believe some people are born like that.

MG

Why not? Singing has tones, e.g. humming. (IMO) It's more basic than being attracted to language/words. I can listen to a singer and not "hear" a word they say.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I can't truly believe some people are born like that.

Why not?

Well, because we're hard wired for language. We're almost certainly hard wired for music, too, but I can't believe one is more basic than the other. Or that someone who's managed to learn a language is somehow "miswired".

Like WD45, I can listen with great enjoyment to people singing in a language I don't understand and, like him, I'm focusing on the sounds and the feeling in the singer's voice, as well as on the rest of the band. But that isn't ALL the vocal music I can listen to with great enjoyment. That condition seems to me to be the result of a conscious decision - analogous to deciding that, even though your right hand isn't disabled, you won't use it for the rest of your life. I think it would be every bit as hard to ignore the language component of music as to avoid using your right hand more or less instinctively - unless you had tied it behind your back. And, if it can't be ignored, how to avoid assessing some as good, some bad and some indifferent? (I think we're hard wired for criticism, too )

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I 'm gonna pick the big elephant in the room that nobody wants to see, a little snobbishnesh since singers especially females are generally the rare artists that generally make some waves outside the confidential niche that is jazz, and of course if it's popular it can not be good.

I have a few friends who for whatever reasons dislike singers and since i do see a few gigs involving singers they look at me as a guy who likes singers a little bit the same way that if i were gay.

I do agree that they are so many ordinary singers that are so all over the place that they tend to make us forgetting the good ones.

I think this is an elephant. I think many would deny it, however.

MG

[MoGrubb]

I can't truly believe some people are born like that.

Why not?

Well, because we're hard wired for language. We're almost certainly hard wired for music, too, but I can't believe one is more basic than the other. Or that someone who's managed to learn a language is somehow "miswired".

Like WD45, I can listen with great enjoyment to people singing in a language I don't understand and, like him, I'm focusing on the sounds and the feeling in the singer's voice, as well as on the rest of the band. But that isn't ALL the vocal music I can listen to with great enjoyment. That condition seems to me to be the result of a conscious decision - analogous to deciding that, even though your right hand isn't disabled, you won't use it for the rest of your life. I think it would be every bit as hard to ignore the language component of music as to avoid using your right hand more or less instinctively - unless you had tied it behind your back. And, if it can't be ignored, how to avoid assessing some as good, some bad and some indifferent? (I think we're hard wired for criticism, too )

MG

We get feelings from the musical sounds of words before we differentiate words from those same sounds into intellectual meaning. It may or maynot have anything to do with being "wired" differently. Some musical sounds stimulate the intellect (even without accompanying words).

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

We get feelings from the musical sounds of words before we differentiate words from those same sounds into intellectual meaning. It may or maynot have anything to do with being "wired" differently. Some musical sounds stimulate the intellect (even without accompanying words).

So you don't know any more than I do

MG

[MoGrubb]

We get feelings from the musical sounds of words before we differentiate words from those same sounds into intellectual meaning. It may or maynot have anything to do with being "wired" differently. Some musical sounds stimulate the intellect (even without accompanying words).

So you don't know any more than I do

MG

Except, we hear sound before we know what it means.