tkeith Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Belle had better stats but his supporting cast looks like a Fantasy Team now. He had Carlos Baerga (.314, 90 RBI), Jim Thome (.314, 73 RBI), Kenny Lofton (.310), some guy named Ramirez who batted 7th I believe (.308, 107 RBI), and Eddy Murray (.323, 82 RBI). The Sox had Tim Naehring, Jose Canseco and Troy O'Leary just over .300 but O'Leary and Canseco didn't crack 400 at bats, Mike Greenwell and John Valentin were also very close to .300. Still, that Cleveland lineup was historic, and that's with Sandy Alomar (maybe the best 2nd baseman ever) playing only 66 games. So, while I can see your argument that writers didn't want to vote for the "bad guy", I think an argument could be made that Vaughn was more important to the Sox lineup than Belle was to the Indians. Mind you I'm not saying its a no brainer. Fair enough. I'll just offer what I remember about Vaughan. I remember a guy who K'd better than 150 times (160, I think), didn't hit for as much power with guys on base and/or in late inning pressure situations. I also remember that he couldn't field his position (back then, Albert could) particularly well. Mo was a nice guy and a good community guy, but whenever things didn't go his way, it was "the team's out to get me." I don't mind Belle not winning so much as I do Mo getting the nod. He just wasn't that spectacular, in spite of his inflated stats (and as I said earlier, I actually liked Mo -- reminded me of Boomer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Gotta weigh in on Vaughan v. Belle. Obviously I'm biased, and I've argued this before, but I don't think it's even close. 50 HR/52 doubles for Belle--don't think it matters that much who's in the lineup. And those guys had something to prove all season, so there was no coasting. An extremely confident bunch yes, but back in '95 the Tribe was only 47 years into their still current dry spell. A typical Tribe lineup back then was 1. Lofton cf .310, 2. Vizquel ss .266, 3. Baerga 2b .314, 4. Belle lf .317, 5. Murray dh .323, 6. Thome 3b .314, 7. Ramirez rf .308, 8. Sorrento 1b .235, 9. Alomar c .300. Alomar was the All-Star catcher Sandy Jr, not the All-Star 2b. That year, you could make a decent argument that Baerga was a more valuable second baseman than R Alomar (based obviously entirely on his bat). Robbie's time in Cleveland came later--in one of his seasons with the Tribe one could reasonably argue that he and Manny "split MVP votes" so that neither won despite having monster seasons. And I remember Manny getting picked off of first in the World Series against the Braves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom in RI Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Man, I hate it when I confuse my Alomars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen archer Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Sox are 3 games back ( thanks yankees), Tampa only has 8 games at home the rest of the way while the Sox play a majority at home. I think the Red Sox finish first, wouldn't it be something if the Rays don't make the playoffs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Sox are 3 games back ( thanks yankees), Tampa only has 8 games at home the rest of the way while the Sox play a majority at home. I think the Red Sox finish first, wouldn't it be something if the Rays don't make the playoffs ? I was reading the NY Post baseball blog which was all about how the Yankees best chance isn't to catch the Sox, its for the Rays to fall apart. They do have a tough road trip coming up - Toronto, Boston, NY, I believe. And after Boston visits Tampa, the Twins come in. So those are tough games. I think we do have a shot, but only if what the Rays are trying to accomplish really gets into their heads and they (dare I say it) choke. At least they are due for a bad stretch and maybe some bad luck, too. Tonight's game against the Yanks should be a blow-out, with Rasner facing Kazmir. But Kaz has been pedestrian for about 70 innings now, with an ERA over 4 and 12 home runs allowed. We do have the rotation lined up right for Tampa next week, I just hope that Beckett off the DL followed by Byrd and Wake doesn't run into trouble against Texas this weekend. One thing I want to avoid though is to have those last three games at Fenway be critical. If we can clinch the wild card before that, great. But I'd hate to somehow have a three way battle for the wild card/division with the Yankees having good reason to at least play spoiler. Hopefully they complete the sweep tonight, then fall on their faces in Seattle and LA. Seattle they miss King Felix but I can't imagine they'll play with a lot of energy after leaving Tampa at midnight to fly all the way across the country and land in Seattle with a game that evening. One last thing to consider - the Rays finish with Detroit and Baltimore. So even if they drop, there will be an opportunity to recover. But I'd love to play Chicago with home field advantage rather than LA as the wild card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 I just hope that Beckett off the DL followed by Byrd and Wake doesn't run into trouble against Texas this weekend. We scored one run last night against the Mariners. Granted, we won, but ONE RUN!!!! I don't think you have too much to worry about, Dan. Remember: it was in Boston that the Rangers season officially tanked. I'm sure there are some guys on the Rangers who would like to exact some revenge, but as last night proved, the bats are dead and there's no sign of life. Why should there be? Yeah, the last two games have featured some solid pitching, but it's against the Mariners fercryinoutloud! These same Mariners, who handed what remains of the Rangers' dignity to them on a paper plate Tuesday night when they tore apart the Rangers bullpen and turned a 6-4 deficit into a 12-6 laugher. Like I said, Dan: no worries at all. Heck, I may even try to get out to Friday's game, since high-school football is in full swing around here and, football being a major religion around here, there ought to be plenty of cheap seats available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen archer Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Texas scares me ,the Sox have never played well down there . Is it still hot down there ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Texas scares me ,the Sox have never played well down there . Is it still hot down there ? Well, thanks to Hurricane Gustav the temp the last couple of days has been in the 80's. Supposed to be low-mid 90's this weekend, cooling down at night. Hopefully no humidity, too. Perfect September baseball weather, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 In case use guys thought I was making up how bad attendance was for Braves vs. Marlins games....from beat writer David O'Brien.... Asked a couple of guys about the pitiful crowds they saw at Dolphin Stadium this week. WILL OHMAN: “Coffin Stadium. It had all the atmosphere of a playoff game … in the Arizona Fall League.” When I mentioned to him that I attended a couple of Fall League games last year, including a night game with a fairly enthusiastic crowd, Ohman said, “OK, then it had all the atmosphere of a rookie-ball, extended-spring game.” CHIPPER JONES: “I don’t want this to reflect poorly on the Marlins in any way, but I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed to be playing [in that atmosphere]…. They have a very good team that’s fun to watch. Some guys doing some special things. And nobody’s there to see it. South Florida’s missing a treat.” Rookie BRENT LILLIBRIDGE said the 600 or so that attended Wednesday’s series finale against the Marlins was probably smaller than crowds he played in front of all season at Richmond, where attendance was down in the Braves’ last year at that old relic of a ballpark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkeith Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Rookie BRENT LILLIBRIDGE said the 600 or so that attended Wednesday’s series finale against the Marlins was probably smaller than crowds he played in front of all season at Richmond, where attendance was down in the Braves’ last year at that old relic of a ballpark In defense of south Florida, nothing happens in a vacuum. 11K tickets were sold to that game, a day game, in a very hot climate at an outdoor stadium. A game featuring one of the worst teams in baseball this season. And, there is the matter that all of Florida is contending with tropical storm season. While they may have had nice weather that day, a lot of people had to prepare for the impending storms. It's abysmal, but there are also militating factors. I don't ever recall calls for contracting Pittsburgh (the "c" word was used earlier in this thread in regards to the Marlins), though I attended some late-season games at 3-River Statdium where the attendance was probably not more than 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 And Hank and Hal Steinbrenner were at the game last night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Cubs lose 5 in a row, but Brewers lose 4 in a row. I give up (almost). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 And Hank and Hal Steinbrenner were at the game last night! Is that not them? I'm going to the Rangers/Red Sox game tonight. Hopefully I'll get some decent pictures to post up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 i'm still trying to make a d-backs game this season.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) And Hank and Hal Steinbrenner were at the game last night! That's terrible. These guys have no clue. Last I looked, the Yankees had a winning record. They're giving paper-bag headgear a bad name! Edited September 5, 2008 by papsrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkeith Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 And Hank and Hal Steinbrenner were at the game last night! That's terrible. These guys have no clue. Last I looked, the Yankees had a winning record. They're giving paper-bag headgear a bad name! The bags are because they're afraid to walk around displaying their Sox caps in the Bronx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 The Rays lose on a walk-off grand slam but you can kiss that opportunity to close the gap because that worthless piece of fucking shit Wakefield gave up SEVEN FUCKING RUNS WITH TWO OUTS. How much do you wanna bet that Byrd will get his ass handed to him tomorrow? That fucking shit doesn't cut it against a half-way decent offensive team. And how much do you wanna bet that this one will end up about 20 - 5? Into the bullpen in the second inning, and the Rangers won't mind some fucking payback for a couple of weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Perhaps an illustration of the high variability of performance by knuckleballers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Perhaps an illustration of the high variability of performance by knuckleballers? This is just a tad beyond that normal variability: He had made three hundred and sixty nine starts since sucking shit this badly. Five outs in twelve pitches then 37 more without sniffing an out, and pissing away a critical game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Damn! Why couldn't the Rangers have done this last night when we were there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkeith Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Of course, he *is* facing a brutal offense in a ridiculous hitter's park, in conditions that will likely lead to a knuckleball doing *nothing*. But then, I'd never want to suggest Dan is prone to overreact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Wow, I'll bet the Rangers really could blow a ..... Never mind, Bay just struck out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkeith Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Wow, I'll bet the Rangers really could blow a ..... Never mind, Bay just struck out. That's okay, Al; they just came through for you today. Out of curiosity, can anybody explain what the hell is going on with Baltimore? I understand yesterday was rained out, but today, on my fantasy live scoring page, it just says "cancelled." But you think ESPN or MLB.com would have the story? No! Baltimore Sun? Uh-uh. WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Well, they never had a lead to begin with..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 How much do you wanna bet that Byrd will get his ass handed to him tomorrow? That fucking shit doesn't cut it against a half-way decent offensive team. Damn, I wish I'd taken that bet. I don't know where the "half-way decent offensive team" was today, but it sure wasn't the team not scoring against Byrd and the Red Sox today. Still, nice to know I'm not the only one whose predictions aren't always on the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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