Adam's Apple - Wayne Shorter

[A Lark Ascending]

This one has probably been discussed a thousand times before but I've recently heard it for the first time and am hugely impressed (sorry, but I broke the embargo and bought the copy controlled Euro version - seems to play in my machines!).

I already knew the title track and 'Footprints' from the old BN Shorter compilation. What has really drawn me in are three tracks on the CD. '502 Blues' and 'Teru' are absolutely exquisite ballads - oblique and smeared yet very, very affecting. I keep going back to 'Teru' in particular.

But the track which has intrigued me most is 'El Gaucho' - I love the way the main 'head' is built...that strange pause between each line where the piano almost but not quite upsets the flow. Then the way the soloing rides over that strange structure.

Apologies if this is old news to the many BN experts on the board but this music is quite revelatory to me. As those of you who have read my posts know, I 'hear' jazz from a very different direction than most people on this board (European jazz, UK jazz, going back to the sources; rather than the usual core jazz repetoire working outwards). I've always loved Shorter on the mid-to-late 60s Miles recordings but found the solo Blue Notes of the mid-60s a little less involving. They've always seemed less adventurous, more traditionally based (in the hard bop sense). But this one has really made me want to go back to 'Speak No Evil', 'Soothsayer' and Ju-Ju' and listen more carefully.

Who knows, I might even make sense of 'All Seeing Eye' (which, I'll admit, is a long way from traditional hard bop!).

[jazzbo]

Well it's nice that you are discovering some of this stuff! I've cooled in my ardor for Shorter's work. . . over the last decade I've slowly been less moved by his more abstract serpentine approach (and the work of other players who have been influenced/transformed by it) and respond more to a more swinging and emotional type of playing. Adam's Apple is a very good one of his Blue Notes; the Rowles tune is a favorite, and the really driving rhythm section on this puts a lot of music out there and spurs Wayne on. Perhaps this and Night Dreamer are my favorites of the Blue Notes. Rather nice to discover it now, as this RVG version sounds fantastic in comparison to other digital editions to my ears.

[A Lark Ascending]

over the last decade I've slowly been less moved by his more abstract serpentine approach (and the work of other players who have been influenced/transformed by it) and respond more to a more swinging and emotional type of playing.

That's interesting.

It's the abstract, serpentine approach that attracts me.

Whereas with the 'more swinging and emotional' approach I find I have to almost suspend my disbelief...make an effort to get into the mindset of the time and try and hear it as it might have sounded then.

I suppose years of hearing the 'swinging' approach watered down by countless UK 'mainstream' (swing or hardbop) imitators has built up a crust of resistance within me.

I'm rather enjoying breaking through that personal prejudice (luckily many of the Blue Note and OJC recordings that document at least some of that type of music can be got for the price of a couple of pints in the various UK sales on the go at present).

[jazzbo]

It boils down to personal preferences I guess. I don't feel the "heart" in Shorter's music that I feel in for example Pres' and Birds' and Duke's and Strays' and many another's music, and I begin to need to feel that heartbeat. Shorter's music more and more seems one of the mind to me, and it is great stuff, but it doesn't fulfill some listening needs, and I usually reach for others, and into the Brazilian and blues genres these days for that fulfillment. I'm not knocking his music at all, but it holds less and less interest for me.

All that. . .may change!

[Late]

This was my first Shorter album, purchased on compact disc about 17 years ago, except that the disc wasn't actually compact, and it was glossy and black, and had all these grooves struck into it.

Sometimes what I'm most struck by about Shorter's playing is how relatively fast (from his first recordings) his approach moved away from Coltrane's. I know the two were acquaintances, if not friends, in the late 50's, and I believe they shared some practice time together. You'd never hear Coltrane, for example, play high(er) notes the way Shorter does on the ballads for Adam's Apple. Very few tenor players, in my listening experience, have that type of delicacy, while still being a "delicacy" that I hear being pretty far removed from, say, a Stan Getz. In Getz's case, one can often hear breath in his tone, whereas in Shorter's there's less of an airy quality, and more saxophone sound. That takes a lot of embouchre control, and just the right balance of air pressure against the reed. At any rate, I agree — those ballads are something to marvel at, and reveal a style of playing that is inimitably Wayne Shorter.

Perversely perhaps (because it wasn't on the original session), my favorite track has always been "The Collector" (that is, after I purchased the actual compact disc). This track became, I believe, "Teo's Bag" when it was recorded with Miles, but there it lacks a lot of the intensity that this version has. I wish that Shorter had come back into the studio around this time to make an album (or complete an album) that continued the path that this track started. To my ears, this track is darker than the rest of Adam's Apple, and I think that's when Shorter gets most interesting — a la The All Seeing Eye, I suppose.

If you have Andrew Hill's Lift Every Voice, check out Carlos Garnett's soloing there. To me, some of his phrases on this record are unmistakably under the influence of Shorter. And it was only 1969! Whether or not Garnett was one of the first to be attracted to Shorter's style, there were many, many to follow.

Edited October 12, 2003 by Late

[A Lark Ascending]

It boils down to personal preferences I guess.

Quite. Heavily influenced by where we're coming from and what we're currently listening to.

I have to say that despite Shorter's elusive, rather oblique style I actually find him highly emotional. Those ballads, for example, seem full of warmth, to these ears anyway.

It reminds me of a couple of aunties of mine (both, sadly deceased). One was always there for you but did not express her emotion openly...yet you always felt it; the other was one of those overbearing, smother-you-with-kisses types - equally honest but rather frightening to a young kid. Shorter strikes me as out of the former mould.

I think I might have found a somewhat disturbing psychological reason for my preference!

Having said all that I picked up 'Leeway' in one of those sales yesterday. Found myself just wallowing in the disc this afternoon, especially 'The Lion and the Wolf.' I've never really got past 'The Sidewinder' with Morgan but this disc just seemed wide open and engaging. So maybe there's a place for auntie no.2 in my life as well!

Late,

Just to show how muddled up my ears must be when I was listening to AA this morning one saxophonist who did come to mind was Getz. Maybe I'm thinking of the Getz of the 70s - the one who recorded Live at the Montmartre including a couple of Shorter tunes!

As a total non-player myself your comments about the different ways Shorter and Getz approach their sound are very interesting.

Edited October 12, 2003 by Bev Stapleton

[Noj]

I also just bought this one for the first time Friday night (nice sale at Virgin--RVGs for $9.99). ADAM'S APPLE is an incredibly good album, and these ears aren't suprised. I can't get enough Wayne Shorter, I've also bought NIGHT DREAMER, JUJU, SPEAK NO EVIL, THE ALL-SEEING EYE, and FOOTPRINTS LIVE all fairly recently. They have been getting loads of playtime.

At this point I like THE ALL-SEEING EYE the least, though I have no plans to sell it anytime soon.

[jazzbo]

I'll admit the ballads have some emotion to them, but overall this is music that does not move my heart these days.

I used to be immensely fond of Shorter's work, and I still am fond of it but my listening needs and wants seem to have changed. Just as you are now discovering some of Wayne's and Lee's Blue Note sides, I've known these for years, and they have lost the allure of discovery for me, and other items have that allure to me now!

So as you say, different perspectives as well as tastes color our choices.

[BruceH]

Jazzbo, what do you think of Shorter's Vee-Jay work? This is the stuff I come back to again and again and again with increased appreciation. To my ears it has the swinging and melodic qualities that I usually treasure.

[JSngry]

ADAM'S APPLE - the most purely melodic Shorter BN in my opinion. No "licks", just pure melody, straight from wherever melody comes from (head? heart? both? neither? If I knew, I could always be and/or go there...). It's more than "just" "cerebreal" or whatever, there's a pretty mystical thing going on here. Not necessarily "spiritual" (but not necessarily NOT spiritual either), but just the mysticism of melody, of hearing, feeling, and playing such sustainedly melodic music. There's definitely some "zonage" going on here.

Emotion is indeed subjective, for this one moves me deeply. But that's just me. ODYSSEY OF ISKA moves me even more, and how many people like THAT one? So, like, whatever. I'll take it where I find it.

[davef]

Had it years ago, sold it back, got it back about a year ago, then picked up the RVG... the album has impressed me more as time has gone on. I also really like El Gaucho.

[mikeweil]

Apologies if this is old news to the many BN experts on the board but this music is quite revelatory to me.

That's how I felt in the 1980's when most of his Blue Notes appeared on CD for the first time, it was my first chance to hear this music, as Shorter's music was practically unavailable in Germany, except for Super Nova, Odyssey of Iska, and Moto Grosso Feio - I had LPs of these. But his earlier Blue Notes were all out of print, surprisingly, as UA in Germany had a generous selection of Blue Notes in print. All young jazz musicians and collectors here seemed to grab every Shorter LP as soon as it showed up on a flee market or in second hand shops. The All Seeing Eye was all I could find in 15 years!

I marvelled at the versatility and high level of composition AND improvisation on Adam's Apple. El Gaucho with its "additional" two bars in the form fools me every time I listen to it!

I guess it was JUST BECAUSE he knew Coltrane's style and ideas so well - they reportedly practiced together - he HAD to do it a different way. You don't want to imitate a great concept if you're a great player yourself. Perhaps he didn't like the pitfalls along Coltrane's musical way. JSngry is right, it is very melodic, thematic variations all over the place, especially in the El Gaucho solo, very close to the theme. I wish some players would take that to their heart instead of running scales and changes!

Edited October 12, 2003 by mikeweil

[jazzbo]

I like the VeeJay stuff fine, I actually prefer it to the Blue Notes to be honest.

I think this stuff is music of high order. . . but I don't "need" it as much at all any more compared to how I used to want to listen to it in the past.

[Morganized]

I have to agree with Bev and Late on this one. This is probably my favorite Shorter CD. I recently purchased the RVG just to see if there was any way to improve on this classic.( Sound may be slightly improved but not really a significant improvement IMHO) I also agree with Sangry. To my ears this one has an almost mystic quality to it. I can't add a lot to what has already been said, but if you are counting votes count me in on the side that can't get enough of this one!

[DrJ]

ADAMS APPLE is a really great one, for sure. "El Gaucho" and the Jimmy Rowles cover just slay me every time. Would like to have seen Joe Chambers work with Shorter more during that era, he brings a different feel to the session - given the intensity (almost rock-like at times) he brings, Shorter and Herbie almost seem to take their own intensity down a notch or two to keep the balance, and it's an interesting dynamic as a result, different sounding than any of Wayne's other BNs. He maybe doesn't work out quite as well on "Footprints;" Chambers is fine there but when you place that reading against the epochal one on MILES SMILES, you realize that the plasticity Tony Williams brought to the pulse was the deal clincher.

Man, I love all those Shorter Blue Notes - Jim, you're not alone, ODYSSEY OF ISKA is a real stunner and way overdue for a decent CD remastering. And then I also love NIGHT DREAMER at the other end of his tenure, which while ostensibly a little more conventional and still in the Coltrane influence bag is still great jazz.

[JSngry]

Just curious, Tony - do you listen to much opera? And even if you don't, do you hear the operatic qualities of ISKA? I guess to be more accurate, I'd have to describe it as a series of arias, or perhaps a song cycle, but given the programmatic nature of the music, and the way the whole ensembles frames Wayne's "singing" (and DAMN does he sing on this album) with music totally in sync w/the themes of each piece, the whole thing somehow just strikes me as operatic in essence.

[.:.impossible]

This was the first of Shorter's music outside of Miles' quintet that I ever heard. My brother gave me a copy for my birthday years ago. In college, I met an alto player named Benny Hill who lived in the projects about ten blocks from where I lived in Wilmington, NC. He would come over and we'd drink and shoot the shit and listen to music. He was always bringing up Kenny Garrett (Triology) and Dexter Gordon. Of course he was a Bird fan too.

I would show him what I was listening to at the time and he'd always say something like, "You like all them underdogs. That's cool." I asked if he was a fan of Wayne Shorter. He knew Footprints (fakebook) so I played this disc for him, Adam's Apple, and he left me six Dexter Gordon CDs in exchange for it.

He has since moved out of his mom's place on Princess and is studying for his masters in music somewhere in the midwest.

I just patched that hole in my collection again with the RVG. Brought back some good memories. 502 Blues is such a great tune! This album I have a soft spot for.