Soul Stream Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 I never thought spending 10 bucks on any RVG would do me wrong, but I've finally found a Blue Note I can't stand. Not that it's "bad" so to speak, just a big looooonnng snoooozefest. Wake me when it's over. -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vibes Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Blasphemy! This is my favorite of the Hancock BN's. I hope you'll listen to it some more and learn to enjoy it. The music strikes me as very contemplative, very introverted. I enjoy that quality in music. Anyway, happy listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 I'm a big Hancock fan, but, to be honest, I've never cared for this session a lot, either. For me, it could use some more rehearsal, and some assistance with the arrangements. For example, imagine what Gil Evans would have done with that personnel and instrumentation. Compare it with any of the other Hancock BN sessions. Those have few people on them, but so much was accomplished. Even the hornless "Inventions and Dimensions" album is far better; that one is, of course, great in its own right, not just by comparison. I think "The Prisoner" is way better, though, that what Herbie was soon to do. I hate the WB albums (just boring dross) and that fusion stuff he got into ("Headhunters" etc.). But I realize that he had to earn a living, and jazz was by then a ticket to poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Not my favorite Herbie BN, but a "snoozefest"? Sorry, can't even begin to go there with that. But different strokes, doncha' know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 The syrups baked in, doncha know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 I believe Gil Evans DID have a hand in "The Prisoner" ....or at least advising Herbie on this one and the preceding "Speak Like A Child." I thought that Herbie had just learned about Evans' arranging methods from playing in his band for a while, notably writing the inner voices "horizontally" (to where the melodic "sense" of each part comes foremost) instead of "vertically" (where every stacked voicing makes harmonic "sense"). I'm unaware of any direct input by Gil on these albums, but no doubt I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Not my favorite either, but I like it a lot more than you do, Soul Stream. My favorite part is where Herbie jumps up and yells, "I am not a number; I am a FREE MAN!!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Yeah, that's one of the quotes I remembered. I just didn't interpret it to mean that Gil had directly participated in the actual writing of these charts, but had rather been an influence through example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 "Prisoner" is probably Herbie's worst BN session. It's still worth keeping in my opinion but the music meanders way too much without enough direction. Good personnel. Still worth keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted November 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 The reason I posted this is because this might be the only BN session I've ever put in, listened to, and immediately disliked. Not in the sense that this music is upsetting me, like a Cecil Taylor reaction, but a sincere "this music is doing NOTHING for me." Is this a slam against Herbie, one of the greatest jazz musicians who every lived? Certainly not. But I do think, unlike some, that even the greats fall flat....real flat sometimes. That's part of their greatness. I'm sure many do like this album, and this is all qualified with a "IMHO." However, I'll be taking it back to the store. I've NEVER done that with a BN. Because I always thought that, even if I didn't like the music now, someday I might. But I just don't see that happening ever with "The Prisoner." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 I don't think you'll miss it, really. I once had the LP, and hardly ever played it, and I have the RVG CD, which I'll probably never play again. And I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to music. I, also, want to stress that this isn't an attack on Hancock. He sure is one of the very best, and many are the albums with gems by him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 The syrups baked in, doncha know? Man, how'd they come up with those things. They're like the crack of breakfast sandwiches! MMMMMMMMMM!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 Okay, I l i k e this one. It's not the greatest thing since blueberry pancake breakfast sandwhiches (I'll take your word for it guys) BUT it sure sounds great. I mean that literally. It has such a great SOUND. I like Blue Notes from the sixties that break the formula, you know what I mean, not just another organ gig, not just another Lee Morgan date, and this is one of them. Beautiful sounds. . . I think I'll have to dig it up and put it on for Sunday Morning listening while I start the last hilip K. Dick book I'll ever et to read for the first time (most likely; I finally sprung for "Gather Yourselves Together"). It's not the best Hancock but it's quite good if you ask me. Thank goodness we all like different stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 quite good at least, I'd say! I like it a lot! The line up of this date and yes, Lon, the sound, is quite unique. Then, the whole vibe is not as commercial as on the (wonderful, in my opinion) Fat Albert Rotunda. And Johnny Coles, Garnett Brown and Joe Henderson are a great frontline, too! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 High expectations since he had so many gems: Takin' Off My Point of View Inventions and Dimensions Empyrean Isles Maiden Voyage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 What store is it that lets you return perfectly fine, non-defective cds just because you didn't like what you heard? That's a very liberal return policy. I mean, I'm really sure I don't like Dylan's "Desire". Or maybe it's just that song "Joey". Oh shit, does that one stink to high heaven...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) I would advise hanging on to THE PRISONER for a while and listening over time. I wondered what all the fuss was about initially, but this is the kind of music that gets into your subconscious. I think it's a fantastic album, if not quite at the same level of MAIDEN VOYAGE or EMPYREAN ISLES (what IS)? Long ago I also felt it was Herbie's worst BN, but now I rank it very highly, and I'd say that honor for "worst" would go to MY POINT OF VIEW (not a bad album by any means, but just has the least to distinguish itself among Herbie's incredibly stellar output for BN). DIMENSIONS and SPEAK LIKE A CHILD go right near THE PRISONER too. FWIW - I love the Warner Bros. stuff Herbie did, although I agree that I'm not as hot on HEAD HUNTERS as much of the rest of the world seems to be. During the Warner years he struck a very difficult to maintain balance between jazz, rock, and funk. If you haven't heard that stuff, check it out. Edited November 2, 2003 by DrJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 It's not one I listen to often, but I've had the lp since it's release. Buster Williams and Toodie Heath got my attention on this one. THEY sound pretty good here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted November 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 What store is it that lets you return perfectly fine, non-defective cds just because you didn't like what you heard? That's a very liberal return policy. I mean, I'm really sure I don't like Dylan's "Desire". Or maybe it's just that song "Joey". Oh shit, does that one stink to high heaven...? There's a store here in town, "Waterloo Records" that lets you return any CD for any reason, even if you just don't like the music on it, as long as you have the receipt. For up to a week (or maybe 10 days) after you've bought it. Great store with a great return policy. They also let you listen to any CD in the store before you buy (maybe I should have done that!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 That's sweeeeeet! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 What store is it that lets you return perfectly fine, non-defective cds just because you didn't like what you heard? That's a very liberal return policy. I mean, I'm really sure I don't like Dylan's "Desire". Or maybe it's just that song "Joey". Oh shit, does that one stink to high heaven...? There's a store here in town, "Waterloo Records" that lets you return any CD for any reason, even if you just don't like the music on it, as long as you have the receipt. For up to a week (or maybe 10 days) after you've bought it. Great store with a great return policy. They also let you listen to any CD in the store before you buy (maybe I should have done that!) That will last until a new owner takes over. There's a store in Ann Arbor that used to do that then the sister sold it to her brother and he cracked down. Can't really blame them, but I barely go there anymore. They raised prices on everything and lowered their buyback prices. It's still a good store, but I just don't make the trip anymore. I think Bol would know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted November 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 What store is it that lets you return perfectly fine, non-defective cds just because you didn't like what you heard? That's a very liberal return policy. I mean, I'm really sure I don't like Dylan's "Desire". Or maybe it's just that song "Joey". Oh shit, does that one stink to high heaven...? There's a store here in town, "Waterloo Records" that lets you return any CD for any reason, even if you just don't like the music on it, as long as you have the receipt. For up to a week (or maybe 10 days) after you've bought it. Great store with a great return policy. They also let you listen to any CD in the store before you buy (maybe I should have done that!) That will last until a new owner takes over. There's a store in Ann Arbor that used to do that then the sister sold it to her brother and he cracked down. Can't really blame them, but I barely go there anymore. They raised prices on everything and lowered their buyback prices. It's still a good store, but I just don't make the trip anymore. I think Bol would know what I'm talking about. Waterloo Records is a real cornerstone of the music scene here. For a town that claims to be "The Music Capitol of The World," Waterloo's been around a long, long time. And for good reason. It's more than just a record store in a way, it's a philosophy. There are no sections such as jazz, rock, soul, ect...just everything alphabetically ordered. Constant in-stores and local artist support abound. Tower Records is basically on the ropes because of Waterloo, and has been since Tower opened several years ago. I don't see Waterloo going away anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 (edited) I think Waterloo is a pretty blah record store actually, or at least for my needs Tower is a better store: better location, better selection, very helpful jazz buyer. I've never spent the time and dollars at Waterloo that I have at Tower. Partly because Waterloo has that truly annoying procedure---that they seem to pride themselves on---of not having sections in their new cds, just listing nearly everything alphabetically by artist. Not fun for me to shop that way! And I'm usually disappointed at what I don't find there. Cornerstone of the music scene? Maybe. . . probably not though in my opinion. I've been in the music scene here, marginally, for a time and Waterloo didn't make any difference as far as I could see, but hey, maybe. Tower has instores too. Tower opened TWELVE years ago. Tower the chain is on the ropes, not becasue of Waterloo. Also, I have seen Tower take back any cd pretty much for any reason. Company policy may not be explicitly such, but actual store practice is. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Take The Prisoner back and get something else! If you already know it is not something you like, so be it. Get somethin' greezy! B) Edited November 2, 2003 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 I mean, I'm really sure I don't like Dylan's "Desire". Or maybe it's just that song "Joey". Oh shit, does that one stink to high heaven...? Lester Bangs sure didn't like it. I think it may have had a lot to do with the real Joey Gallo being a violent, murderous, psychotic scumbag. Then Dylan comes along and mythologizes him as this misunderstood, basically good, loner/rebel figure. Seems to have rubbed Lester the wrong way... As for The Prisoner, it sure has one of the worst BN album covers in the entire RVG series so far. Has anyone done a thread about worst (American) RVG covers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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