MP3s of Prestige stuff?

[Soul Stream]

I know Itunes doesn't seem to carry the old Prestige titles.... Is there anywhere online to purchase the mp3s of the classic prestige lps?

[jazzbo]

www.emusic.com has quite a lot of what came out on OJC cd.

[Soul Stream]

Thanks Lon : )

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It would be nice if some of the material not issued on CD came out as MP3s. What's the point of having a new format if you can only buy the same stuff that you can buy on the old format?

MG

[jazzbo]

So different people can buy it!

[Niko]

So different people can buy it!

biting the hands that feed them

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Downloading itself isn't so much of a big thing - not even as big a thing as the CD was in the eighties. What makes it take off are two things:

new ways of listening (eg the ipod);

new things to listen to that aren't available in the old format.

So the first is here, but I don't think it's sufficient to make it take over from CDs, except for the relatively small number of people for whom that is the preferred way of listening.

MG

[.:.impossible]

The entire black saint/soul note catalog was not readily available on cd was it?

[paul secor]

The entire black saint/soul note catalog was not readily available on cd was it?

Almost all of the Black Saint/Soul Note catalog is available on CD. (I think there were some titles that weren't reissued, but probably 95% was.) Cadence currently distributes Black Saint and Soul Note. http://db.cadencebuilding.com/search/

[Soul Stream]

Yeah, I'd really like to see companies...especially Blue Note issue stuff that has remained in the vault, kept away from potential fans of the music. I recently emailed Michael Cuscuna about an unissued Freddie Roach session on Blue Note (we talked about it here on the board). The response I got in total was... I have heard it. It's abysmal.MC In the age of the digital download, I'd love to be able to buy that unissued session as a download. No liner notes, no art work, nothing....just the session tape. A recording like that would, it seems, not be commercially available from BN under normal circumstances. But in this day and age, why not put up Tyrone's "Trainwreck" session? I've looked at the Freddie Roach session on paper, and considering the musicians and time period as his last recording session for BN...I get the feeling it's probably a decent session. Just not up to MC's standards. But, I'd love to download it!!! Bad or not, I'd like to hear it!

[jazzbo]

I know but. . . as long as Michael is in command of the catalog, we're not going to see that material. He views himself as the representative of Alfred Lion . . . he wants to maintain the same standards of quality that Lion did. . .I can see both sides of the issue. The next producer at the helm is likely to feel differently. But that next producer is not on the horizon or in the air. And I'm not sure I would want anyone else in charge.

[Dan Gould]

Yeah, I'd really like to see companies...especially Blue Note issue stuff that has remained in the vault, kept away from potential fans of the music. I recently emailed Michael Cuscuna about an unissued Freddie Roach session on Blue Note (we talked about it here on the board). The response I got in total was... I have heard it. It's abysmal.MC In the age of the digital download, I'd love to be able to buy that unissued session as a download. No liner notes, no art work, nothing....just the session tape. A recording like that would, it seems, not be commercially available from BN under normal circumstances. But in this day and age, why not put up Tyrone's "Trainwreck" session? I've looked at the Freddie Roach session on paper, and considering the musicians and time period as his last recording session for BN...I get the feeling it's probably a decent session. Just not up to MC's standards. But, I'd love to download it!!! Bad or not, I'd like to hear it!

The problem is that now you get into the "artist's legacy" issue of whether this serves his memory or not (we know where Chuck stands on this). Not to mention the question of exactly how much demand there would be to justify that cost.

Which isn't to say that I wouldn't welcome a digital release of the Grant Green with Gene Harris on organ session.

[RDK]

Yeah, we're talking two different things here: re-issuing (digitally at least) albums that are oop in one format or another (including old LPs that have never been issued on CD) and recordings that were deemed "unworthy for release" by either the artist or the producer. I'm all for the former; the latter must be considered on a case-by-case basis - and I generally side with MC there.

The other thing, of course, is that whether physical or virtual product, an official release requires payments to the artists. It doesn't matter what format the material is released in, there's a certain point where it simply isn't profitable to do.

[Soul Stream]

I good example for my case is are to live discs. Lou Donaldson's "The Scorpion" and Grant Green's "Live At Club Mozambique". Never released at the time, but issued as a single discs...both from a wealth of sets recorded live, but as they saw the market would only buy a single disc. For some, like myself...these sessions represent Mile's "Plugged Nickel." I understand that those who feel this way a few and it wouldn't make sense to make a physical product out of the full recorded sets. But I would download both of those complete performances in a minute.

[A Lark Ascending]

Downloading itself isn't so much of a big thing - not even as big a thing as the CD was in the eighties. What makes it take off are two things:

new ways of listening (eg the ipod);

new things to listen to that aren't available in the old format.

So the first is here, but I don't think it's sufficient to make it take over from CDs, except for the relatively small number of people for whom that is the preferred way of listening.

MG

What you are missing is a generation that is growing up for whom downloading is second nature. Those of us who grew up with earlier formats might take some persuading to change; but I'd imagine a young student in college just getting a taste for, say, Blue Note will default to downloads.

What I like about downloading is the instant gratification! I can hear a track on Jazz Record Requests and be listening to it in context 20 minutes later. Probably an indication of the bread and circuses decadence of contemporary life but it works for me. It's taken me a couple of years to make the change but I'm happy with it now.

[ejp626]

What I like about downloading is the instant gratification! I can hear a track on Jazz Record Requests and be listening to it in context 20 minutes later. Probably an indication of the bread and circuses decadence of contemporary life but it works for me. It's taken me a couple of years to make the change but I'm happy with it now.

Had the same thing happen last night. I was listening to Late Junction and a very cool world music track came on -- something off of Issa Bagayogo's new CD Mali Koura. Well, I am a real sucker for music out of Mali (and kora music more generally), and I thought to see if eMusic had it. They did, and I even had some credits left so I didn't have wait at all. I'm listening to the rest of the album now, and if I really like it, I will probably get the other CDs by this artist (eMusic has 5 total), though that would mean a booster pack or waiting nearly a month!

[A Lark Ascending]

What I like about downloading is the instant gratification! I can hear a track on Jazz Record Requests and be listening to it in context 20 minutes later. Probably an indication of the bread and circuses decadence of contemporary life but it works for me. It's taken me a couple of years to make the change but I'm happy with it now.

Had the same thing happen last night. I was listening to Late Junction and a very cool world music track came on -- something off of Issa Bagayogo's new CD Mali Koura. Well, I am a real sucker for music out of Mali (and kora music more generally), and I thought to see if eMusic had it. They did, and I even had some credits left so I didn't have wait at all. I'm listening to the rest of the album now, and if I really like it, I will probably get the other CDs by this artist (eMusic has 5 total), though that would mean a booster pack or waiting nearly a month!

Yes, I fall for the booster track option. 'Ah well, £15 for 4-5 albums...I used to pay that for one' is my justification to my id!!!!

I'm not due to reload until the end of the month - but I've just seen the arrival of Apti by Rudresh Mahanthappa's Indo-Pak Coalition. I was trying to locate an online source for that at the weekend...not sure my self-discipline will hold!

[ejp626]

I'm not due to reload until the end of the month - but I've just seen the arrival of Apti by Rudresh Mahanthappa's Indo-Pak Coalition. I was trying to locate an online source for that at the weekend...not sure my self-discipline will hold!

Don't have a lot of discipline, but I've generally been able to keep off the booster packs. Speaking of Apti, I managed to score a used copy cheap off of Amazon (or maybe half.com).

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Downloading itself isn't so much of a big thing - not even as big a thing as the CD was in the eighties. What makes it take off are two things:

new ways of listening (eg the ipod);

new things to listen to that aren't available in the old format.

So the first is here, but I don't think it's sufficient to make it take over from CDs, except for the relatively small number of people for whom that is the preferred way of listening.

MG

What you are missing is a generation that is growing up for whom downloading is second nature. Those of us who grew up with earlier formats might take some persuading to change; but I'd imagine a young student in college just getting a taste for, say, Blue Note will default to downloads.

I'm not missing them - but they're still a relatively small proportion of the people who are buying records in physical form. What proportion of downloads do you think are going to customers in Africa, the Indian sub-continent, China, South America? And even in Europe and America, the under thirties (if thirty isn't too old - I don't know) are still a minority.

MG

[A Lark Ascending]

Ah, but they're growing and we're vanishing.

[ejp626]

What proportion of downloads do you think are going to customers in Africa, the Indian sub-continent, China, South America? And even in Europe and America, the under thirties (if thirty isn't too old - I don't know) are still a minority.

MG

This seems another example of herd mentality taking over. For decades, advertisers have always aimed at the under 30s, particularly males, as they supposedly had the most disposable income. Not sure that was that true then, and it probably isn't true any longer. But most business models are still built around capturing the youth demographic, and these are the ones completely decimated by the changes in on-line behavior (including a completely casual approach to IPR and downloading as a way of life). Try telling some entertainment exec that they could have a perfectly respectable career going after the 30-50 year old crowd, and they'll think you're bonkers.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Ah, but they're growing and we're vanishing.

Sure - but I'm sure you recollect the speed with which CDs took over from LPs. That didn't rely on a new generation coming up, which takes a long time. It relied on people generally - of all age groups - wanting to change over; and a good part of the reason was the appearance on CD of material that wasn't available on LP. And I reckon that, to do the same, with similar rapidity, companies will have to release in download format material - oceans of material - that isn't out on CD (or LP, for that matter).

It looks, from the WSJ article we've both read just now, like the industry is slowly coming round to the view that they need a new way of making money. I think they need to hurry up and get a lot more unavailable stuff out on downloads - not reissue as downloads stuff you can get on CD.

MG

[A Lark Ascending]

Ah, but they're growing and we're vanishing.

Sure - but I'm sure you recollect the speed with which CDs took over from LPs. That didn't rely on a new generation coming up, which takes a long time. It relied on people generally - of all age groups - wanting to change over; and a good part of the reason was the appearance on CD of material that wasn't available on LP. And I reckon that, to do the same, with similar rapidity, companies will have to release in download format material - oceans of material - that isn't out on CD (or LP, for that matter).

It looks, from the WSJ article we've both read just now, like the industry is slowly coming round to the view that they need a new way of making money. I think they need to hurry up and get a lot more unavailable stuff out on downloads - not reissue as downloads stuff you can get on CD.

MG

I think it's just because we have not hit the tipping point yet. Established buyers of recordings are still largely suspicious of downloading (and in some cases don't have the computer skills or think they don't). But I think we're almost at the point when things will change. It'll be down to push and pull factors - in the UK the push will be the disappearance of most non-pop material from what stores are left.

I'm typically cautious with these things - there was no way I was going to be persuaded that SACD was a necessary upgrade. And I was very slow to start downloading and have taken 2 years to get confident that what I'm getting is as good as CD. I think it's a journey many will soon take.

You are right about the need to make what is OOP available. Clearly there will be all sort of legal issues involved there but once those are past it just takes the record companies to think differently. Instead of witholding assets until the demand rises, putting it all out there. There really is no reason for the Blue Note or ECM catalogues not to be permanently available (again, apart from any legal considerations). Then focus on creative ways to PULL people in wanting to hear them. I keep mentioning Chandos but what first convinced me of the viability of downloading was discovering that they had their entire deleted catalogue available.

As for much of the world not having any immediate prospect of access to PCs to download...well, I suspect the same will happen as in the 1980s. The change will be pushed in the west whilst older technologies will be sustained in the rest of the world until the market dries up there (which it probably won't for our lifetime at least!).

I don't think the CD will disappear for some time yet - it takes a bit of effort to download. Someone just wanting a recording of a current popular tune they've heard may well still buy on impulse in the supermarket. I think that market will be catered for. But specialised music that sells over a long timescale? - I'm sure the companies will see the download option as a solution to having it hanging around in warehouses or store shelves. Which, of course, won't stop some smaller labels continuing to follow the CD path out of preference.