***Home Plate***

[slsmcgrew]

First Lou Pinella leaves Seattle because they refuse to make trades and/or add salary to do what it takes to win the World Series. Now, after doing nothing at the trade deadline, Jeff Nelson opens his mouth to gripe and he’s shipped off to the Yankees faster than you can say “The Mariners Management Sucks”.

What, they couldn’t do a trade before the deadline, but once someone speaks up ad calls them on their bullshit, they can pull off a deal where all players have to clear waivers and such. This is some lame shit.

It is my understanding that the M's needed another closer since our good one is still mending. I do agree that the management for the M's sucks.

[Dan Gould]

Just for the record, almost every MLB player has cleared waivers by this point, so trades will continue to occur until August 31.

Not according to Jason Stark's ESPN.com column of last Thursday or Friday. A number of people have cleared waivers, but to say "almost every" player has is not accurate. Not saying that a whole heckuva lot of players *will* clear waivers before September 1 (the deadline for post-season rosters) but they haven't all cleared waivers. Not even close.

[J Larsen]

Dan, waiver wire info is not made public, Stark only has access to a few names that were leaked to him. My comment is based on what Giants GM Brian Sabean said (perhaps inadvertently) in his radio address last week. In any event, it has always been my understanding that nearly everyone clears waivers on or about August 1. Because of the way the waiver rules work, it really makes no sense to claim players off waivers in early August unless you think a team really wants to dump the player in question (in which case they likely would have put the player through waivers earlier) and you are willing to accept their salary, or if you are trying to block a trade to a rival team. The later is a dangerous strategy, as it is a real bridge-burner with the waiving team.

Edit: there's one other circumstance where it makes sense to claim players off waivers in early August, and that's when you have a pre-arranged trade in place for the player in question. If the trade falls through, the waiving team can still put the player through waivers once more. After that, they lose the ability to pull players back. If you couldn't already tell, I'm a bit of a contracts/transactions/stats junkie. We used to have big office arguments about this kind of thing every day when I was working on Wall Street - those guys are really fanatical about this stuff!

Edited August 11, 2003 by J Larsen

[Dan Gould]

Well, my question then would be, why isn't it public knowledge among "insiders" like Stark? I haven't gone to re-read the article, but he basically says that there are "more to come". If its SOP to put everyone through waivers so soon after the deadline, why doesn't he just say that?

[J Larsen]

Fair question, although I must say that Gammons and Stark are probably the two least reliable of the national baseball commentators. Sometimes I think GMs BS those two all the time just for kicks. Not that that really undermines your point. I've always been told that the teams all put their full rosters through at the same time so that their true intentions are as masked as possible. For instance, if you waited until next week to clear a player, it would be pretty clear that you were trading him, as by the time he made it through there would only be a few days to the deadline.

Actually, there would be another reason that many players have yet to clear that would be consistent with both my story and Starks': it could be that the vast majority have been put on waivers, but only some have made it through *so far*. Teams get something like 12 hours to decide whether or not to put a claim on a player when their turn comes up. There could be a few teams on the chain that are just slow with the clerical work.

[Dan Gould]

OK, so if every team took 12 hours to make a decision, that would be like 13 days from "placed on waivers" to 'cleared waivers'?

I acknowledge your greater apparent knowledge, it just seems odd and I would think that if this were happening it would definitely be common knowledge by now.

[J Larsen]

OK, so if every team took 12 hours to make a decision, that would be like 13 days from "placed on waivers" to 'cleared waivers'?

I acknowledge your greater apparent knowledge, it just seems odd and I would think that if this were happening it would definitely be common knowledge by now.

Hey dude, the last thing I want is for people to accept everything I say because of "greater apparent knowledge"; that would make life pretty damn boring! I'm skeptical of almost everything I hear, myself.

Brian Sabean's weekly radio show aside, I've always heard about the early-August waiver wire from fanatical non-insiders (the "amature Moneyball crowd", I guess you could call them). My guess as to why they keep waiver wire transactions under wraps (which even Stark implicity acknowledges they do) is this: the rules are so complicated that few people understand them, so the possibility of a headline in, say, Seattle along the lines of "Boone Waived by Mariners" would make people very upset, even though it's a completely benign transaction. They therefore choose to just keep it quiet. That's NOT a fact or some "insider info" I'm stating, it's just how I rationalize the fact that August waiver-wire info is not made public.

[Dan Gould]

Hey, I said I "acknowledged" your greater apparent knowledge-didn't say I "accept" it!

[Dan Gould]

I think if they fail to win the Series, Torre will retire or be canned, and there will probably be a wholesale change in Steinbrenner's "Baseball People". But I didn't see anything indicating that Torre's already decided.

[Soulstation1]

barry doesn't like to play extra inning games, b.b. feels he isn't get paid for the "extra" part.

do not throw him a pitch down the freakin' middle of the plate in extra innings, he will crush it.

bonds is the mvp this year.

i must see him next week vs. the d-cakes @ the bob.

it's a fri-mon series. you hear me chris?

love him or think he's an ass, he is the best hitter in the game today.

his stats can't be debated.

ss1

go tribe

they are closing in on 60 wins.

the tigers sux big time

Edited August 22, 2003 by Soulstation1

[BERIGAN]

And his dad just died... I was a Bobby Bonds fan when I was a little kid (anybody else remember the celebrated Murcer-for-Bonds Giants-Yankees trade?). Goodbye, Mr. 30-30:

BobbyBonds

My God, just saw this!!! He was at the ball park Weds! What a strong, strong man. One of my biggest thrills was Bobby being traded to the Cards . A real power hitter on my team! He was 34 and looked to have several good years ahead, but got hit in the wrist with a pitch, and was never the same....He played for the Cubs the next year(His last) and I saw him hit a homerun against the Cards that won the game for the Cubs. I was estatic. Really confused the friend of my Dad who had taken me to the game, thought I was a Cards fan!

[Brad]

Bobby Bonds was definitely an amazing player. It would take his incredible son to overshadow him and make you think of someone other than Bobby. Remember seeing with the Yankees when I was a bit younger.

[Tjazz]

Bobby Bonds - 57

How can he die so young?

[J Larsen]

I was at Wed. night's game when Bobby was in attendance and Saturday's game when his passing was announced (I actually went to every SF home game this week, that was one of the main reasons I wanted to come out here). What a sad note to be leaving the city on. RIP, Bobby, and take care, Barry.

[Dan Gould]

Just for the record, almost every MLB player has cleared waivers by this point, so trades will continue to occur until August 31.

Since we were discussing the waiver process, thought I'd post this from Peter Gammons ESPN column:

Charting the waiver wire

Here is this midweek's list of players who were blocked this month when they were placed on waivers:

AL: Brendan Donnelly, Ben Weber, Alfredo Amezaga, Jason Johnson, Kerry Ligtenberg, B.J. Ryan, Bartolo Colon, Tom Gordon, Esteban Loaiza, Wilfredo Ledezma, Carlos Beltran, Raul Ibanez, Runelvys Hernandez, Eddie Guardado, Shannon Stewart , Jeff Nelson, Nick Johnson, Arthur Rhodes, Lance Carter, Travis Harper, Joe Kennedy, Victor Zambrano, Aubrey Huff, Francisco Cordero, Todd Greene, Frank Catalanotto.

NL: Stephen Randolph, Jason Marquis, Kent Mercker, Horacio Ramirez, Jung Bong, Chris Reitsma, Ray Olmedo, Brian Fuentes, Justin Speier, Mike Lowell, Juan Pierre, Octavio Dotel, Brad Lidge, Wilson Alvarez, Danny Kolb, Richie Sexson, Luis Ayala, Javier Vazquez, Orlando Cabrera, Jose Vidro, Vladimir Guerrero, Brandon Duckworth, Joe Beimel, Kip Wells, Jim Brower, Jesse Foppert, Jerome Williams, Tim Worrell, Jose Cruz Jr.

Wilson Alvarez. Wow.

Some that got through that shocked me: Scot Shields, Danys Baez, John Thomson, Kelvim Escobar, Orlando Hudson, Mike Bordick, Luis Vizcaino, Mike DeJean, Livan Hernandez, Tomo Ohka.

[Dan Gould]

GoM, that Yankee win was huge for you guys, but it can't make me forget the thrill of hearing "Let's Go Red Sox" in Yankee Stadium on Saturday after pounding Clemens around the yard!

But that win makes it awful tough for the Sox to catch up with 20 left, especially considering that our schedules are almost exactly the same, except that you get Detroit for three and we get Cleveland for three.

Can you tell what my Avatar is? My favorite Norman Rockwell, and since I switched to it, the Cubbies have taken over first place!

[Dan Gould]

Agreed on the talismanic-sports connection. Several years back, Florida State was playing Florida and losing 31-3 in the fourth quarter before mounting a remarkable comeback to come out with a tie that felt closer to winning than anything imaginable. When the comeback started, my friend's cat had crawled into my lap and after the second TD, I figured I couldn't let the cat leave my lap under any circumstances! The cat wasn't happy, as with each subsequent score we were bouncing around, but by the end of the game, I felt as if I had done my share to help the team win

And its the same way for me with the book that became Field of Dreams. I know I'm being manipulated, but yeah, I choke up when he asks his Dad if he wants to have a catch, like any American male who grew up with baseball and a Father.

[BERIGAN]

Just a little over three weeks left, and every division in the American League is still in play.  Even the Yanks are all but clinging to first--thankfully Wells finally got back on track and they salvaged the last game of their series with the Bosox.  And I'm rooting hard for the Cubs to pull it out in the NL Central.

Brother Berigan, what's yer verdict on the Braves for the playoffs?

Brother Ghost,

I predict 3 and out against whomever we play! The offense has been amazing, but pitching, is weak!!!

look at these stats...

Pitching Statistics

NAME G GS W L Sv Hld IP H ER HR BB SO K/9 P/GS WHIP ERA

Jaret Wright (39 SD) 4 0 0 0 0 1 3.1 3 0 0 0 3 8.10 0.0 0.90 0.00

John Smoltz 58 0 0 2 44 0 61.0 45 6 2 8 67 9.89 0.0 0.87 0.89

Will Cunnane 12 0 1 1 2 2 13.1 7 2 0 4 11 7.43 0.0 0.83 1.35

Kent Mercker (49 Cin) 8 0 0 0 1 1 8.1 9 2 1 4 4 4.32 0.0 1.56 2.16

Ray King 72 0 3 2 0 17 54.1 44 20 3 25 39 6.46 0.0 1.27 3.31

Mike Hampton 27 27 13 7 0 0 171.0 161 71 11 70 97 5.11 99.6 1.35 3.74

Russ Ortiz 31 31 19 6 0 0 195.1 165 83 16 94 133 6.13 106.0 1.33 3.82

Greg Maddux 32 32 14 10 0 0 197.2 204 86 23 32 117 5.33 83.1 1.19 3.92

K. Gryboski 61 0 6 4 0 11 41.2 43 19 3 22 30 6.48 0.0 1.56 4.10

H. Ramirez 25 25 9 4 0 0 157.2 156 73 18 66 88 5.02 98.6 1.41 4.17

Darren Holmes 42 0 1 2 0 11 36.1 38 17 5 10 41 10.16 0.0 1.32 4.21

Trey Hodges 47 1 3 3 0 4 62.0 61 30 9 29 63 9.15 65.0 1.45 4.35

Jung Bong 41 0 6 2 1 2 53.0 53 27 7 30 47 7.98 0.0 1.57 4.58

R. Hernandez 55 0 5 2 0 17 50.2 55 27 10 38 41 7.28 0.0 1.84 4.80

S. Reynolds 26 26 11 8 0 0 151.0 171 90 18 51 87 5.19 91.5 1.47 5.36

Jason Marquis 15 2 0 0 0 0 29.2 33 21 2 16 14 4.25 91.0 1.65 6.37

Joe Dawley 5 0 0 0 0 0 7.0 15 14 3 3 8 10.29 0.0 2.57 18.00

NAME G GS W L Sv Hld IP H ER HR BB SO K/9 P/GS WHIP ERA

Braves 144 144 91 53 48 66 1293.1 1263 588 131 502 890 6.19 95.3 1.36 4.09

Does that look like the staff of a team that can get thru the first round??? Besides Smoltz, Ortiz, and perhaps Hampton, who would most playoff teams even want?

Of course, I am sure if one dug thru the early posts I posted this year, I swore there was no way this team could compete, so perhaps they will just bash their way into the WS, beating the Yankees of course! B)

Edited September 9, 2003 by BERIGAN

[ghost of miles]

Hold on to your hats, Cub fans! Houston lost today, the Cubbies took the first of a twinbill, and they're up 6-0 in the second. If they win they clinch...

[Dan Gould]

Its a very happy day in the Gould household-my Red Sox are already in the big dance, and

CubsWIN

CubsWIN

CubsWIN

Guess my avatar brought them home, huh, GoM?

Now, what are the odds of a Cubs/Red Sox series? B)

[JSngry]

Now, what are the odds of a Cubs/Red Sox series? B)

I'd love to see it, but I'm afraid that it would result in a nuclear holocaust or something that would prevent the Series from being played. A player's strike wouldn't be big enough to stop THAT tide...

SOMETHING would have to happen - you can't have one of those teams actually WINNING. That would upset life as we know it for the next millenium.

And beyond!

[ghost of miles]

Its a very happy day in the Gould household-my Red Sox are already in the big dance, and

CubsWIN

CubsWIN

CubsWIN

Guess my avatar brought them home, huh, GoM?

Now, what are the odds of a Cubs/Red Sox series? B)

All power to the Cubs avatar!

Now--I myself am gonna start doing the ritual raindance to invoke a Cubs-YANKEES series. B) Surely the Cubs are still seeking revenge for 1932...

[BERIGAN]

So Mr. Larsen, ready to admit Dusty isn't THAT bad a manager???? I have had to admit Bobby Cox must do something right as well...well, they can still screw up nicely come the playoffs....

Cubs vs. Braves!!! Crap!!! I started rooting for the Cubbies in 1983 when I first got cable, and rooted for the Braves as well on cable...Cubbies won the east(remember them in the east?) in 1984, and the Padres ruined one of the best potential series ever, the Cubs VS. Tigers!!!! Then the Cubs got rid of ballgirl Marla(was that her name?) and I started to pay more attention to the Braves, even though they lost all the time, til 1991...so, needless to say, mixed emotions! I think since Atlanta has gotten spoiled, and AOL/TimeWarner claims poorness, I think I will be rooting for the Cubbies!

And damn, their 4 starters could just tear up the Braves I think. But it is still a 5 game series, correct??? So a 3 game winning streak is all any team needs. If the Cubs get past the Braves/Giants/Marlins, look out Ghost, they will get the damned Yankees yet!!! Now, if the Red Sox somehow got past the Yanks, damn....who to root for??? Cubs??? Red Sox??? Damn! JSngry is right, it just would be too much...a true sign of the end of mankind's rule on earth....

Edited September 28, 2003 by BERIGAN

[Dan Gould]

Its a very happy day in the Gould household-my Red Sox are already in the big dance, and

CubsWIN

CubsWIN

CubsWIN

Guess my avatar brought them home, huh, GoM?

Now, what are the odds of a Cubs/Red Sox series?  B)

All power to the Cubs avatar!

Now--I myself am gonna start doing the ritual raindance to invoke a Cubs-YANKEES series. B) Surely the Cubs are still seeking revenge for 1932...

Sorry, Ghost, the Cubs have been seeking revenge for a much longer time, all the way back to 1918, the last time the Sox won it all ...

[ghost of miles]

Yes, but the Sox merely spanked them (4-2) while the Yanks swept them in '32 and again in '38.

I'd forgotten about '38, actually, as well as '35, when the Cubs lost to Detroit 4-2. The Cubs made the Series three times that decade. Must've been boon times in ol' Chi-town... and hopefully will be again.