Funny Rat

[Guest akanalog]

moore sounded like a real douchebag when he wrote that but i imagine it worked well for his audience (the younger kids) and got some people interested in free avante shit who otherwise would not have checked it out.

that second luther thomas is a good one? banana, i mean. i like funky donkey or whatever it is called a lot.

does anyone know what happened to charles bobo shaw? he seems to have disappeared.

i like most everything i have heard him on. he had his own ideas about "fusion".

[ep1str0phy]

Just got a copy of Khan Jamal's Drumdance to the Motherland (I know there was some talk about this one a while ago). It's as spacy and edgy as everyone says (and quite melodic, too).

Don't know about Shaw (although I'm also a fan), but Banana is, apparently, not quite the scorcher that Donkey is.

[clifford_thornton]

Just got a copy of Khan Jamal's Drumdance to the Motherland (I know there was some talk about this one a while ago). It's as spacy and edgy as everyone says (and quite melodic, too).

Don't know about Shaw (although I'm also a fan), but Banana is, apparently, not quite the scorcher that Donkey is.

Yeah, that Jamal is sick...

I was under the impression that Charles Shaw had passed away. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Moore: He wrote that in the mid '90s IIRC, when NONE of that shit was findable with any ease on LP, and the AUM Fidelity/Homestead crowd was just getting outside recognition. It was originally published (hyper-edited) in Grand Royal Magazine, the Beastie Boys' hipster rag, and I guarantee you almost no one in the Grand Royal subscribing audience had ever even heard/thought much about free jazz. Moore is hit-or-miss and comes off somewhat snobby, but hey, at least he was throwing it out there when not many other dudes were.

[ep1str0phy]

I haven't been on the scene long enough to know whether or not the price escalation for stuff like Alabama Feeling and Black Ark preceded or followed the canonizing practices of the free jazz community. I mean, as much as I love Arthur Doyle, I'd have to contend that the gushing superlative of cats like Moore and Rudolph Grey was what got him where is in the 'pantheon,' so to speak.

[clifford_thornton]

I mean, they made probably about 1000 of the Doyle Ak-Ba - it's not THAT rare. Still, one might be hard pressed to come by it pre-eBay. Of course, back then, it would've been $10! Underground records have always been collectible though, whatever the genre.

Doyle was an underground hero back in the early '80s, though I don't think the regular jazz community even knew who he was. Most of 'em still don't; to put it in perspective, the one time I saw Doyle live was opposite the Dream Action Unit (Flaherty/Corsano/Moore).

[Chuck Nessa]

Doyle was an underground hero back in the early '80s, though I don't think the regular jazz community even knew who he was. Most of 'em still don't; to put it in perspective, the one time I saw Doyle live was opposite the Dream Action Unit (Flaherty/Corsano/Moore).

Back in the'80s Doyle was a "nothing". Charles Tyler was giving the records away. That's how I got mine. Doubt if there were more than 500 pressed - more likely 300.

[ep1str0phy]

Note to FR people: Selwyn Lissack is playing DMG on December 12th... too bad I'm in Berkeley. Maybe we'll get that album reissued, sooner or later...

[clifford_thornton]

Doyle was an underground hero back in the early '80s, though I don't think the regular jazz community even knew who he was. Most of 'em still don't; to put it in perspective, the one time I saw Doyle live was opposite the Dream Action Unit (Flaherty/Corsano/Moore).

Back in the'80s Doyle was a "nothing". Charles Tyler was giving the records away. That's how I got mine. Doubt if there were more than 500 pressed - more likely 300.

That few, eh? I thought I'd read "somewhere" that there were 1000 each of the Tylers and the Doyle, though I feel like I've seen the Doyle way more than either of CT's titles.

Must be the circles I run in, which are strange and occupy one corner of the living room...

Edited October 18, 2006 by clifford_thornton

[clifford_thornton]

Note to FR people: Selwyn Lissack is playing DMG on December 12th... too bad I'm in Berkeley. Maybe we'll get that album reissued, sooner or later...

Thought DMG had botched the reissue and it wasn't coming out. I hope this is a change in the air for that unfairly neglected Goody record...

[Д.Д.]

Da Musik / Black Lion is reissuing Cecil Taylor's solo Indent in 24-bit. This is one of Cecil's best solo records, IMO, and DA Musik is doing a good job with remastering (they did Cecil's Silent Tonguges in 2000).

[ep1str0phy]

I'm familiar with those garish looking 1201 reissues--is this the same program? (they did Silent Tongues...). If so, I'm surprised (and glad) to hear that the program is still up and running. As for solo Cecil, I'm fond of Air Above Mountains myself...

[Д.Д.]

Da Musik / Black Lion is reissuing Cecil Taylor's solo Indent in 24-bit. This is one of Cecil's best solo records, IMO, and DA Musik is doing a good job with remastering (they did Cecil's Silent Tonguges in 2000).

I'm familiar with those garish looking 1201 reissues--is this the same program? (they did Silent Tongues...). If so, I'm surprised (and glad) to hear that the program is still up and running. As for solo Cecil, I'm fond of Air Above Mountains myself...

I think 1201 licensed them from DA Musik for US distribution.

"Air..." is good, for sure.

[king ubu]

I think DA Musik is the owner of the Black Lion/Freedom catalogue... I haven't seen any other than 1201 editions of "Silent Tongues", David, I think these are the same ones being sold here.

There's also a cheapo label that's part of DA, too, that one's called Jazz Colours, I think.

Has anyone here had a chance to compare some Black Lion CDs to 1201 CDs? I have only had either or, never had both editions of the same title - I wonder if there's any noticeable differene. (I have two of the Monk in London and some Dexter as Black Lion that I am aware has by now been reissued on 1201 again.)

[Д.Д.]

I think DA Musik is the owner of the Black Lion/Freedom catalogue... I haven't seen any other than 1201 editions of "Silent Tongues", David, I think these are the same ones being sold here.

There's also a cheapo label that's part of DA, too, that one's called Jazz Colours, I think.

Has anyone here had a chance to compare some Black Lion CDs to 1201 CDs? I have only had either or, never had both editions of the same title - I wonder if there's any noticeable differene. (I have two of the Monk in London and some Dexter as Black Lion that I am aware has by now been reissued on 1201 again.)

Same stuff. I have DA Musik / Black Lion eidtion of Silent Tongues: http://www.da-music.de/shop/dispitem.php3?...=0&maxrec=3

Jazz Colors series on DA Musik has a lot of good stuff - I just listened to Bechet/Pee Wee Russell set today - excellent. Don Byas concert recordings are outstanding as well. And the sound is good. I don't have Dexter (not a big fan).

[king ubu]

Yeah, but are the remasterings different or not? I wonder, since Black Lion CDs are often not exactly state of the art, while 1201 CDs say "24 bit remastered".

I'll have to get both Cecils, don't have "Silent Tongue" yet, either.

I played some ratty discs again of late and enjoyed them a lot:

Billy Hart - Enchance (A&M)

Marion Brown Quartet (new ESP reissue)

Marion Brown - Why Not (ESP/Abraxas, italian release)

Hemingway/Graewe/Reijseger - The View from Points West

and the magnificient Jimmy Lyons box, all through, after getting those mails from Ayler records like 10 times or so (I seem to get all their mailings at least twice... same for Atavistic, and I have not signed up with two addresses).

[David Ayers]

What happened to Chaney? Last I recall he was discussing Guerrilla Mosaics and started a thread with a soundclip which was subsequently deleted. What gives?

[ep1str0phy]

Now that Billy Hart needs a reissue (Enchance--not the guy).

Edited October 18, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[king ubu]

Now that Billy Hart needs a reissue (Enchance--not the guy).

It seems to be very good! I was lucky to get it used from a board (bored?) member some time ago, but I feel like I need to play it a few more times though to really find out about it.

No idea about Tony, but I sure hope all's well! I'll drop him a mail!

[ep1str0phy]

Has there been a CD issue? I'm fond of the A&M reissue packaging--little gatefold digipacks, really colorful (hard to read though, and maybe just obfuscation in the way of distracting from the music... pretty consistent material, though, from what I've heard).

Another (tangential) topic: what do you guys think of Septober Energy? I've heard nothing but terrible things and, granted the cast, the album isn't entirely remarkable--a lot of droning, anonymous rock grooves with some caterwauling far into the mix. That being said, there are some great spots here by the likes of Elton Dean, Paul Rutherford, Dudu Pukwana, Mongezi Feza...

Also: got a Taku Sugimoto album recently (Guitar Quartet)--extremely minimalist... I'd be tempted to call it EAI, but it's modern improv in it's own piece--minute-or-so long intervals between brief, splintered harmonics. There's a review on Bagatellen from a while back which nails it--Sugimoto is incorporating the acoustic environs into the music, toying with blocks of silence. I'm nowhere near equipped to give an extensive analysis on this one, but it certainly seems as if the quartet is taking precedent (the AMM extended family being one) to some new places.

[Chuck Nessa]

Am I the only person confused by discussion of an A&M session in this thread?

[Guest the mommy]

i saw enhance on CD a few years ago but wasn't ready for it.

i thought it would be more wild than it is based on the personnel.

those A and M records have some weird packaging. i like it too. but it's tough to follow. but it's nice to hear from the musicians.

i always hear bad things about septober energy so have avoided it. your review isn't glowing...so i am still unsure. one of those albums which is hard to pass up every time i see it.

i didn't like the first two tippett albums-you are here.... and whats the other one? but he was like 21 or something. generally, i really like tippett from around this time period.

i also didn't love tippett's other big-ass group on ogun with the frames album from 1978ish.

i think it is good but i am not mature enough to appreciate it.

but tippett's work on the recent elton dean japo is beautiful.

and i recently got a disc called "mercy dash" with hopper/galivan/dean/tippett which i really like from the early 80s. better than that groups earlier 70s album. what was that one called? sorry i am forgetting everything. ah, cruel but fair. that one is ok.

tippett is really awesome on trevor watts amalgam groups "innovation". really crazy how inside/outside he is on that one. humorous.

epsitro-have you heard tippett's blueprint? that one intrigues me. produced by fripp.

[Chuck Nessa]

So......now ak is mommy. I might have dreams.

[ep1str0phy]

I've seen but not heard Blueprint. I've been fairly unimpressed with the Tippett I've heard--a little to clean, polite--but I love him on the sideman stuff I've heard (Spirits Rejoice and Isipingo somewhere at the top).

As for A&M--just sorta came up. Like a lot of stuff in this thread(?)... the Hart album is topic appropriate at least (Redman, Lake, Pullen etc.).

Edited October 20, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[Chuck Nessa]

As for A&M--just sorta came up. Like a lot of stuff in this thread(?)... the Hart album is topic appropriate at least (Redman, Lake, Pullen etc.).

IMHO, it was a lame attempt to get bucks for decent musicians. No reason to pay for it.

[clifford_thornton]

I'm fond of Blueprint, as well as the Ovary Lodge records (which this essentially is). It's really spare - I mean REALLY spare - but the canvas can get pretty tumultuous at times, even when it seems like very little is going on. Of course, there are some waves of extreme density that, considering the barely-louder-than-the-pressing-noise quality of the quiet passages, makes for really seasick contrasts.

Septober Energy is a solid record, though I don't find myself spinning it that often. Ambitious and noble, with some fine soloists and some great writing, even if it doesn't work all the time - I would say the same thing about Frames. The Tippett small groups are where it's at for me; I can dig equally on Ovary Lodge or the groups he led with Elton Dean, Mark Charig and Nick Evans. "Wa-hey!"