Д.Д. Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 From all of the Italian Instabile discs I have heard my favorite is Litania Sibilante. I have never heard the live Festival disc. Good thing about the Festival disc is that it it is not really and IIO (except for a couple of pieces), but different combinations of musicians form the Orchestra - solos (Eugenio Colombo is the man!!), duos, trios, etc., allowing individual musicians to display their talents and concepts better than within IIO framework. Oh, and I remember one more that absolutelys has to be obtained by evrybody on The Rat: Stefano Maltese (reeds) Evan Parker (honorable Italian, reeds) Keith Tippett (equally honorable Italian, piano) Antonio Moncada (percussion) Double Mirror (Splasc(H)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 From all of the Italian Instabile discs I have heard my favorite is Litania Sibilante. I have never heard the live Festival disc. Good thing about the Festival disc is that it it is not really and IIO (except for a couple of pieces), but different combinations of musicians form the Orchestra - solos (Eugenio Colombo is the man!!), duos, trios, etc., allowing individual musicians to display their talents and concepts better than within IIO framework. Oh, and I remember one more that absolutelys has to be obtained by evrybody on The Rat: Stefano Maltese (reeds) Evan Parker (honorable Italian, reeds) Keith Tippett (equally honorable Italian, piano) Antonio Moncada (percussion) Double Mirror (Splasc(H)). That one sounds great, based on the AMG review. It has now been added to "the list." I was surprised to see them use the word "placid" to describe a disc with Evan Parker on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hey, so you are not such a neophyte in Italian music! In any case, check out Mauro Negri, my favorite clarinetist (together with John Carter), who also plays some mean alto. The only "problem" with Italian music is that once you start with it, you need to get more - and there is A LOT of good stuff. It's an absolute shame that even among the conosseurs of improv music Italian musicians are totally unknown. and most of it is quite expensive to obtain over here. I have never heard of Negri. Any album in particular that you recommend? If you like clever funk, go for So Funky!, if you want an excellent duo with a drumer go for Squarci (sells for €6.20 at jazzos). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hey, so you are not such a neophyte in Italian music! In any case, check out Mauro Negri, my favorite clarinetist (together with John Carter), who also plays some mean alto. The only "problem" with Italian music is that once you start with it, you need to get more - and there is A LOT of good stuff. It's an absolute shame that even among the conosseurs of improv music Italian musicians are totally unknown. and most of it is quite expensive to obtain over here. I have never heard of Negri. Any album in particular that you recommend? If you like clever funk, go for So Funky!, if you want an excellent duo with a drumer go for Squarci (sells for €6.20 at jazzos). I just ordered Double Mirror and both Negri discss from Jazzos. Not too expensive, even with shipping included. I'll post my thoughts once they get here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 (edited) Also, the Rashied Ali / Arthur Rhames disc on Ayler that I mentioned earlier, The Dynamic Duo Remember Trane and Bird, is great! Once you get past the seventeen minutes of spoken introduction Rhames and Ali really start to burn. Nice propulsion from Ali and Rhames is on fire! Not the best sound ever (considering it was recorded live 23 years ago) but not bad enough to worry about. Edited June 21, 2004 by John B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Also, the Rashied Ali / Arthur Rhames disc on Ayler that I mentioned earlier, The Dynamic Duo Remember Trane and Bird, is great! Once you get past the seventeen minutes of spoken introduction Rhames and Ali really start to burn. Nice propulsion from Ali and Rhames is on fire! Not the best sound ever (considering it was recorded live 23 years ago) but not bad enough to worry about. Does Rhames really sound very much like Train (a comment I've repeatedly read eleswhere)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 hey Ubu, play your friend Д.Д. that Zerbe Blechband disk next time he visits. Just to show him that Italian jazz is NOT a universe of its own. It's a Central European thing really. Or at least that is what I like to think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 (edited) Also, the Rashied Ali / Arthur Rhames disc on Ayler that I mentioned earlier, The Dynamic Duo Remember Trane and Bird, is great! Once you get past the seventeen minutes of spoken introduction Rhames and Ali really start to burn. Nice propulsion from Ali and Rhames is on fire! Not the best sound ever (considering it was recorded live 23 years ago) but not bad enough to worry about. Does Rhames really sound very much like Train (a comment I've repeatedly read eleswhere)? Yes, he is obviously heavily influenced by Trane on this disc. He also plays some decent piano. Right now I'm listening to the version of "Mr. P. C." from this set and it took me a minute to figure out who I was hearing on piano. He is not bad at all. One Final Note has a good review of this disc on their site. Edited June 21, 2004 by John B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I just ordered Double Mirror and both Negri discss from Jazzos. Not too expensive, even with shipping included. I'll post my thoughts once they get here. You know what, I thik I will order some more Italian jazz as well. Just as a sign of my solidarity with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I just ordered Double Mirror and both Negri discss from Jazzos. Not too expensive, even with shipping included. I'll post my thoughts once they get here. You know what, I thik I will order some more Italian jazz as well. Just as a sign of my solidarity with you. If I keep reading Funny Rat for too long it will be a solidarity in poverty! It has all been worth it, but it might be time for me to stop buying music for a month or two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 (edited) He-he, here is some more for you John (and others of course): European Wrner has been reissuing Atlantic sides recently. Among them Ornette Coleman's "Ornette!" (I think this one was available as strange two-fer on Collectibles only) and "Twins" (this one seems to have been not avialable on CD) and a lot of other stuff (MFQ, Mingus, Coltrane, etc.). All available at budget prices from amazon.fr and amazon.de (this one for example: http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000...5460409-9124811 ). These are in jewel cases (not in digipacks as mid-'90s "swiss" remasters with horrendous sound). I am getting a first batch soon, and will report on the sound quality... Hey, looked through the board and found a thread on these Warner reissues: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5000 ... confuding stuff... in any case, I am getting some of those soon, so I might be able to clarify something... Edited June 21, 2004 by Д.Д. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I've been meaning to pester David for recommendations as to Italian jazz but I thought it best to first visit the AAJ board as (I believe) he (David) had quite a long thread established on Italian Jazz -- which included the involvement of Marco Valente of Jazzos. I could go APE ordering from Jazzos but have thus far restrained any frenzied buying urge. (It helps that the Euro is relatively strong as compared to the Dollar.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I've been meaning to pester David for recommendations as to Italian jazz but I thought it best to first visit the AAJ board as (I believe) he (David) had quite a long thread established on Italian Jazz -- which included the involvement of Marco Valente of Jazzos. I could go APE ordering from Jazzos but have thus far restrained any frenzied buying urge. (It helps that the Euro is relatively strong as compared to the Dollar.) Well, the thread Tony is referring to was severely circumsized after the AAJ board crash, so Marco's recommendations were lost. But it's OK, you can send him an e-mail (Marco runs the jazzos.com website) and he will give you all the recommendations you need and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Some of the Italian jazz thread was lost in the crash? That's a shame as it was invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Some of the Italian jazz thread was lost in the crash? That's a shame as it was invaluable. It's OK, we can easily replace it - I haven't lost any enthusiasm for Italian jazz. As I said, we can always ask Marco, and he will come back with five pages of essential Italian improv recordings for beginners. I rememebr he insistently recommended Giorgio Pacorig "My Mind Is on the Table". I haven't heard it, but I trust Marco's judgement. Tony, you also have We Did It set, as far as I remember? What's your opinion? I feel it has some weak moments (the "rock" medley, and I think TOnoni's drums are a bit too prominent (well, he is a leader), but there are a lot of moments of total brilliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 ... Tony, you also have We Did It set, as far as I remember? What's your opinion? I feel it has some weak moments (the "rock" medley, and I think TOnoni's drums are a bit too prominent (well, he is a leader), but there are a lot of moments of total brilliance. I agree. I find though that for me, We Did It... is most effective while I'm in my car listening and driving as opposed to sitting studiously in front of my sound system. That in itself probably isn't a complement but there you are... It's a bit like Bitches Brew in that way. Maybe if I were the type to get off my arse and dance? As I'm not, hurtling down the highway is my feeble substitute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I'll be interested to hear if that disc with Maltese & Evan Parker is good--I've only heard one of his duos with Marilyn Crispell, which was a bit offputting. He does have very strange intonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 ... European Warner has been reissuing Atlantic sides recently... I'd just bought The Wonderful World of Antonio Carlos Jobim, under the Warner Bros. Masters line and was very disappointed with the sound. Very harsh and hard edged. Not at all pleasant. I hope you'll have better luck with the Atlantic sides. Quite a shock when I then played Rosemary Clooney: Rosie Solves The Swingin' Riddle - one of those Bluebird first editions re-releases: remastering done right. Gorgeous sound. Not the ne plus ultra of remastering, no doubt, but really very nice and pleasing to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 He-he, here is some more for you John (and others of course): European Wrner has been reissuing Atlantic sides recently. Among them Ornette Coleman's "Ornette!" (I think this one was available as strange two-fer on Collectibles only) and "Twins" (this one seems to have been not avialable on CD) and a lot of other stuff (MFQ, Mingus, Coltrane, etc.). All available at budget prices from amazon.fr and amazon.de (this one for example: http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000...5460409-9124811 ). These are in jewel cases (not in digipacks as mid-'90s "swiss" remasters with horrendous sound). I am getting a first batch soon, and will report on the sound quality... Hey, looked through the board and found a thread on these Warner reissues: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5000 ... confuding stuff... in any case, I am getting some of those soon, so I might be able to clarify something... Now don't tell me you DON'T own the fantastic Rhino box collecting all of Ornette's stuff! Absolutely fantastic, bluesy, essential and stunningly beautiful music! This music is so easy to "get" on an emotional level that you really wonder where all the animosities against Ornette came from, back in the day. The "Twins", as well as the other two albums that came out later (after Ornette's actual time with Atlantic was through), are, of course put into chronological order in the box, and thus I don't really know them as "albums". The music, though, is uniformely great. "Ornette", btw, is certainly in a jewel case and newly remastered. I have seen it in stores. Where are those Atlantic reissues from? US? Europe? Those swiss ones were horrible! (I have a few, as the music is great, nevertheless...) But then let me add that the German "Original Warner Masters" are not any tiny bit better (still you NEED to get Kirk's "The inflated tear", even if you don't like him ) ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 And looking at your "Twins" cover, it seems it's one of the German ones. The others (the new jewel case ones) don't have that thing on the left saying "Atlantic Masters"). http://www.warnerclassics.de/index.jsp ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Now don't tell me you DON'T own the fantastic Rhino box collecting all of Ornette's stuff! I don't. Since the box is early '90s remastering, I thought I would get individual albums in better-sounding versions. The only Atalantic Ornette disc I have is This is Our Music (reissued on Sepiatone a couple of years ago; very nice sound... where is Sepiatone btw - they started off strong reissuing Ornette and Alice Coltrane Warner sides two years ago, but don't seem to have done anythng since then) and shitty-sounding Swiss reissue of Free Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 David, I don't know in what form and with how good sound these albums will be reissued, but you should absolutely have the first two, I mean, "This Is Our Music" is good, but the first two albums are FRIGGIN' GREAT! Really! "Ornette on Tenor" is rather cool, too, and then you need the two compilation albums, as well. I had "Free Jazz" on an old Atlantic CD before I got the box (same with the first two quartet albums), but then I have never had audophile ears... ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 (edited) I doubt the digipac Atlantic releases have better sound than the box. Apparantly the recent Warner/Atlantic release of Ornette! has better sound, but I only know that from hearsay. edit: those recent Warner/Atlantic releases are made in the EU; it's a series of some dozen or so titles that come in jewel cases. Besides the Ornette, there's the Marsh/Christlieb Apogee album and the Blue Yusef Lateef, as well as that Fathead and Hank Crawford, just to give you some pointers to what I'm babbling about... Edited June 22, 2004 by couw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I´ve recently bought via e-bay these CDs, which I still haven´t received. Any comments from our Funny Rat free jazz experts? What am I going to find? Ornette Coleman / Dewey Redman / Elvin Jones: New York Now & CECIL TAYLOR / ELVIN JONES / DEWEY REDMAN: Momentum Space Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 And what about this one? Cecil Taylor Unit/Roswell Rudd Sextet: Mixed BTW: sorry if this has been discussed before... I´m still starting to catch up with with this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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