Beatles Remasters coming! 09/09/09

[jazzbo]

Lots of nostalgia included in my revisiting the Beatles by exploring the new reissues.

In part I've done so because it's a 'big deal' and there's lots of discussion here, there and everywhere that is interesting to read and participate in a little.

I've also been drawn into the music for it's own sake. Remembering it, remembering the feel that Ringo brings to it, the ambiguous feel of John's music and words, the fun and loose way Paul played the bass.

Added a nice dimension to the last four weeks. And I know it will continue to bring enjoyment.

Personally, I move farther and farther away from valuing one form of music or group of artists more than others. Jazz of any sort is not better than rock of any sort or folk of any sort or classical of any sort. There's gold everywhere.

[sjarrell]

I always liked the Herbie Hancock quote to that effect, but I can't remember the exact wording. No one form of music is any higher than the others- something like that. Not doing it any justice, am I?

Edited October 4, 2009 by sjarrell

[Jim R]

Lots of nostalgia included in my revisiting the Beatles by exploring the new reissues.

In part I've done so because it's a 'big deal' and there's lots of discussion here, there and everywhere that is interesting to read and participate in a little.

I've also been drawn into the music for it's own sake. Remembering it, remembering the feel that Ringo brings to it, the ambiguous feel of John's music and words, the fun and loose way Paul played the bass.

Added a nice dimension to the last four weeks. And I know it will continue to bring enjoyment.

Personally, I move farther and farther away from valuing one form of music or group of artists more than others. Jazz of any sort is not better than rock of any sort or folk of any sort or classical of any sort. There's gold everywhere.

I haven't been able to justify making a purchase on either of the boxed sets, but I align myself with every other aspect of Lon's post.

[kinuta]

Completely agree Lon. My listening used to be almost 100% jazz but has moved to a mixture of different music ranging from blues to country, old pop to Japanese Enka.

[Alexander]

The Beatles are definitely NOT a matter of nostalgia for me. Nostalgia only works when you haven't heard the music in question for some time. For example, at work we've been listening to Madonna's new "Greatest Hits" compilation. THAT'S music I haven't listened to since its initial release. So when I was greeting people today (as "Papa Don't Preach" played in the background) I would say to each customer, "Good afternoon. Welcome to 1986!" (Always got a big laugh, btw).

If I hadn't heard the Beatles since I was a kid or in high school, then listening to it would "bring me back" to the days when I was listening to it. But I've been listening to them continuously since I was a baby. Never stopped. Never took even a few years off (a few months a most). Thus, my memories of the "last time I heard this" are constantly displaced by NEW memories. Yes, when I listen to "Polythene Pam" I can remember how I used to think of a certain girl I liked when I was a Junior High School whenever I heard that song, but I've heard it so many times SINCE then that it's not the FIRST thing I think of.

When I was in high school, two of my favs were Crosby, Stills and Nash (especially the first album) and Led Zeppelin. For several years after college, I didn't listen to those groups at all. I considered them "childish things" to be set aside now that I was a "man." Years later, I listened to them again, and it DID bring back powerful memories of high school (especially hearing "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes"). But the Beatles? Nope...

[Jim R]

When I was in high school, two of my favs were Crosby, Stills and Nash (especially the first album) and Led Zeppelin. For several years after college, I didn't listen to those groups at all. I considered them "childish things" to be set aside now that I was a "man." Years later, I listened to them again, and it DID bring back powerful memories of high school (especially hearing "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes").

It's interesting that these were favorites of yours (and your friends?) when you were in high school, considering you were in high school from what... 1985-88? I mean, most high school kids are into what's current at the time, or at least fairly current, but "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" would have been practically from your parents' generation, no? That song came out even before I was in high school ('70-'74). Anyway, I'm not knocking it, I just find it a little surprising.

[A Lark Ascending]

I'm with Matthew and Lon here.

I'd probably go a step further and say my interest in the Beatles is almost totally nostalgia. Whilst acknowledging all the discussion about their greatness as popular musicians, influence etc, the biggest buzz I get from listening is how it takes me back.

I suspect most people here who are enjoying revisting the Beatles are doing so hand-in-hand with investigating newer musics in their varying guises.

No need for the 'I've moved on' one-upmanship. There are other directions beside forwards and backwards and you can do both simultaneously.

[Norm]

When I was in high school, two of my favs were Crosby, Stills and Nash (especially the first album) and Led Zeppelin. For several years after college, I didn't listen to those groups at all. I considered them "childish things" to be set aside now that I was a "man." Years later, I listened to them again, and it DID bring back powerful memories of high school (especially hearing "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes").

It's interesting that these were favorites of yours (and your friends?) when you were in high school, considering you were in high school from what... 1985-88? I mean, most high school kids are into what's current at the time, or at least fairly current,

In my high school years (87-91), Led Zeppelin was also the big exception to that rule as well. It wasn't just the stoners who liked them, it seemed like all the older (i.e. seniors) kids loved them. They seemed as popular or moreso than any current band.... the frequency with which "Ramble On," "Stairwary to Heaven," "Going to California," "Fool in the Rain" could be heard in high school parking lot or quoted in the senior quote section of the yearbook you would think it was 1977 or something. In a very ironic twist, the "non-conformist" side of me wrote them off precisely because of their popularity and dug deeper into bands like Love & Rockets, Robyn Hitchcock & the Egyptians, and other quasi-underground stuff coming over from the U.K. at the time. It wasn't until 5 or 6 years later that I shed those unfortunate stereotypes and starting listening with my ears instead of through the prism of self-definition and really appreciated Zeppelin for what they were on a whole deeper level. No real point here, just that for those of who weren't around to experience the 60s and 70s firsthand, the path to discovering bands like the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix and Creedence Clearwater Revival could be kind of a rocky one full of twists and turns.

I can't comment on jazz, as I'm a total neo-phyte, but when it comes to rock I'm of the strong opinion that the very best stuff was produced between 1966 and 73 or so. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed several bands from the 90s up the present (and still do), but all of my very favorite stuff dates back to 40 years ago, and obviously its not due to nostalgia because I wasn't alive then.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Norm

[Alexander]

When I was in high school, two of my favs were Crosby, Stills and Nash (especially the first album) and Led Zeppelin. For several years after college, I didn't listen to those groups at all. I considered them "childish things" to be set aside now that I was a "man." Years later, I listened to them again, and it DID bring back powerful memories of high school (especially hearing "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes").

It's interesting that these were favorites of yours (and your friends?) when you were in high school, considering you were in high school from what... 1985-88? I mean, most high school kids are into what's current at the time, or at least fairly current, but "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" would have been practically from your parents' generation, no? That song came out even before I was in high school ('70-'74). Anyway, I'm not knocking it, I just find it a little surprising.

Yeah, my high school years were 1985-1989. I started out like any other kid, listening to top 40 radio and taping the songs I liked when they were played. I liked Prince, Huey Lewis and the News, Phil Collins era Genesis, Madonna (owned the "True Blue" album). Then I met my friend Henry. He was a little older than me (a little less than a year older, but a whole year ahead of me in school) but his parents were SIGNIFICANTLY older than mine (my parents were in their early 20s when I was born...his were in their 40s). As a result, he had never listened to the Beatles, Stones, the Who, Dylan...all the things I heard from my parents growing up. Right around the time we met, he had just discovered the music of the '60s and was interested by the fact that I had some knowledge of it (and, more importantly, that my parents owned the LPs so he could listen to them at my house). Because he was just discovering it, I wound up REDISCOVERING the same music.

By the 1987-88 school year (and - not coincidentally - the first CD release of the Beatles catalog), a '60s revival was in full swing. Henry and I were fully immersed in the music of the late '60s and early '70s. The "non-conformists" shunned the "current" music (I wouldn't rediscover Prince until I got to college) and embraced the music of our parents. If Henry and I weren't full-blown pseudo-hippies, we were close. We both grew our hair out and Henry sported a truly impressive set of side-burns. We sported tie-dye t-shirts and jeans jackets (I, who only the year before, had regularly worn a tie to school every day!). Neither of us ever took drugs, btw. We never got that deep into it.

The funny thing was that the kids who DID take drugs (the ones who hung out in the smoking area - yes, my high school had one for the students who were over 16) were ALSO into groups like Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath (they also tended to go for Metallica and Megadeth over Poison and Motley Crue. Ronnie James Dio and Ozzy were like gods to these kids. I remember one kid who were a Yngwie Malmsteen jacket every day). But these kids scorned the "hippy" kids as posers. The big difference (to me) was that these kids (the smoking area types) were solidly working class, while the pseudo-hippies (like me and Henry) were all fairly middle-class.

The point is that, yes, the music that I most associate with high school is CSN, Zeppelin, the Who, Hendrix, The Stones, Dylan, the Beatles, Pink Floyd, etc. This is the music I was discovering (and REdiscovering) during the sophomore and junior years of high school, which are arguably the best and most memorable of those years (my senior year wasn't bad, by any stretch of the imagination, it was just different). Particularly my junior year. I had my first real heartache that year. Sigh. I STILL think of that girl (who I still know, btw) whenever I hear "Bluebird" by Buffalo Springfield...

[Dave James]

I guess performing a kind of aural psychoanalysis with respect to why one is attracted to the music of one's youth may have some benefit, but for me, I like listening to the Beatles or others from that era is simply because I like to listen to it. For me, it's no more complicated than that. It was good music then; it's good music now. There's no reason to drill any deeper. Then again, I was the one in my college lit course who insisted that Moby Dick was a story about a whale and that anyone who thought differently was unnecessarlly complicating their life.

Up over and out.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Dave James

[Brad]

Completely agree with Lon. Does the fact that it's been characterized as nostalgia make it any less enjoyable? No. In the past few months, besides listening to jazz, I've listened to a lot of Cream, early Stones, CSN and, thanks to XM Radio Classic Vinyl station, the Airplane, Buffalo Springfield, etc. It's what makes you content inside and who cares how it's labeled.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Brad

[JSngry]

Don Ellis on Columbia, promo copies of Arista/Freedom releases, Blue Note & Pacific Jazz cutouts, the ongoing discovery of jazz in general, & waiting for BS&T to get good again after New Blood (never happened...) that's my teenage nostalgia.

The Beatles, that's more like a permanent brainfuck at age 8.

Of course I've moved on, just as Japan has moved on from Hiroshima...

[Brad]

Don Ellis on Columbia, promo copies of Arista/Freedom releases, Blue Note & Pacific Jazz cutouts, the ongoing discovery of jazz in general, & waiting for BS&T to get good again after New Blood (never happened...) that's my teenage nostalgia.

The Beatles, that's more like a permanent brainfuck at age 8.

Of course I've moved on, just as Japan has moved on from Hiroshima...

Whatever that means.

[A Lark Ascending]

Don Ellis on Columbia, promo copies of Arista/Freedom releases, Blue Note & Pacific Jazz cutouts, the ongoing discovery of jazz in general, & waiting for BS&T to get good again after New Blood (never happened...) that's my teenage nostalgia.

The Beatles, that's more like a permanent brainfuck at age 8.

Of course I've moved on, just as Japan has moved on from Hiroshima...

Whatever that means.

I could do with a translation too.

[Chalupa]

Don Ellis on Columbia, promo copies of Arista/Freedom releases, Blue Note & Pacific Jazz cutouts, the ongoing discovery of jazz in general, & waiting for BS&T to get good again after New Blood (never happened...) that's my teenage nostalgia.

The Beatles, that's more like a permanent brainfuck at age 8.

Of course I've moved on, just as Japan has moved on from Hiroshima...

Whatever that means.

I could do with a translation too.

I think he's trying to say that the Beatles have, for better or worse, left an indelible mark on his psyche that has altered his perception of darn near everything since he was 8.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Of course I've moved on, just as Japan has moved on from Hiroshima...

Whatever that means.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Man with the Golden Arm

[Brad]

Don Ellis on Columbia, promo copies of Arista/Freedom releases, Blue Note & Pacific Jazz cutouts, the ongoing discovery of jazz in general, & waiting for BS&T to get good again after New Blood (never happened...) that's my teenage nostalgia.

The Beatles, that's more like a permanent brainfuck at age 8.

Of course I've moved on, just as Japan has moved on from Hiroshima...

Whatever that means.

I could do with a translation too.

I think he's trying to say that the Beatles have, for better or worse, left an indelible mark on his psyche that has altered his perception of darn near everything since he was 8.

Could be right although in the same vein have the Japanese moved on?

[Teasing the Korean]

No need for the 'I've moved on' one-upmanship. There are other directions beside forwards and backwards and you can do both simultaneously.

I can't speak for Chuck, but when I said that "I've moved on," I was stating it as simply a fact, and added that "I'm not knocking the Beatles." Different music has spoken to me at different times in my life. I simply don't feel an obligation to continue to listening to something that no longer speaks to me. That's all.

[A Lark Ascending]

I suspect we've all moved on, TTK, and I doubt if anyone feels an 'obligation' to listen to this music (or any other, for that matter).

It's just that some of us (I expect most of us!) enjoy that glance backward every now and then. No harm in that on an individual basis. It only becomes a problem if an entire culture throws all of its attention into nostalgia.

I'm not sure I agree with your earlier point that music you were too young to live through could not be experienced as nostalgia. There's an entire heritage industry based around nostalgia for things we never experienced - reconstructions of colonial forts, costume dramas etc. I suspect one of the big attractions of jazz of the past is a retreat into a world where we know the outcomes and can identify with certain musics or musicians in the full knowledge that we're going to be making pretty safe judgements.

Of course we explain it to ourselves that we make that choice on artistic grounds. I think we're buying into a lifestyle choice no different than those who choose an old house (much better workmanship) or classic car (ditto) over something contemporary.

[Teasing the Korean]

These are good points, Bev. The notion of why we like anything is very complex.

I understand your point about nostalgia, but I still believe that in its purest form, nostalgia involves longing for one's own past, rather than longing for an abstraction of a general period.

[RDK]

What's wrong with nostalgia anyway?

[JSngry]

Don Ellis on Columbia, promo copies of Arista/Freedom releases, Blue Note & Pacific Jazz cutouts, the ongoing discovery of jazz in general, & waiting for BS&T to get good again after New Blood (never happened...) that's my teenage nostalgia.

The Beatles, that's more like a permanent brainfuck at age 8.

Of course I've moved on, just as Japan has moved on from Hiroshima...

Whatever that means.

I could do with a translation too.

I think he's trying to say that the Beatles have, for better or worse, left an indelible mark on his psyche that has altered his perception of darn near everything since he was 8.

Could be right although in the same vein have the Japanese moved on?

Mr Deeley is totally correct, and yes, I've read quotes/conversed with people from/in Japan that would seem to indicate that Hiroshima caused a profound collective re-evaluation of the basic national character that lingers to this day, although by now it's as much be osmosis than actual conscious deliberation.

Stipulated that the comparison is perhaps not in the "best of taste" and has a very narrow, specific intent, but as far as it goes to the immediate and permanent/lingering impact that seeing that first Beatles on the Sullivan show has had on me (and god knows how many others), I stand by it 100%

[A Lark Ascending]

What's wrong with nostalgia anyway?

Absolutely nothing, as long as we recognise it for what it is. An airbrushed version of the past (or our past).

I find myself overcome with nostalgia for the 60s/70s listening to music I never knew or hardly knew at the time.

[JSngry]

What's wrong with nostalgia anyway?

It's turns into terminal escapism really, really quickly.

History is good, a well-informed historical perspective (individual & global) even better. But living on memories instead of in the present sucks, and living on memories and actually avoiding the present and dreading the future is pretty much lethal.

[A Lark Ascending]

My guilty nostalgia records are the first 6 Moody Blues albums (the prog version of the band). I couldn't listen to them from the late-70s until a few years back - they seemed so mawkish.

Yet I now have them all on my iPod and inevitably play one or two when I get down to Cornwall. That's where I bought my first records and they were my first favourite group. So regardless of merit - and I can list their faults - they still move me.

Perhaps an example of where nostalgia has made the inherent merit (or lack of) quite irrelevant.