T.O. and Vick

[Tim McG]

This is undoubtedly the first and last time I will agree with Terrell Owens...on anything:

T.O. on Vick

I will now perform a ritual purification of my PC.

[papsrus]

I do hope he demonstrates in whatever way he can that he is rehabilitated, as far as torturing animals to death. But that's between him and his conscience. Keeping him from making a living in his chosen profession serves no purpose.

[Chuck Nessa]

At least torturing/killing dogs didn't improve his stats.

[Tim McG]

My position on it is that Vick has served his time. Now if the NFL is that serious, then the only two justifiable responses are banishment from the NFL or let him come back.

I just think hitting him with four more games suspension after two years in prison just comes across as pretty petty.

[Chuck Nessa]

at this point, what do 4 games really matter. Time to let it go.

[Tim McG]

at this point, what do 4 games really matter. Time to let it go.

I dunno, in a 16 game season, that's 25% of the year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Vick fan either. I'd just like to see some consistancy in the way punishment is handed down to professional athletes is all.

[Soulstation1]

Well

Vick hasn't been on an active roster for the past 2 seasons

Vick lied to Goodell's face

How many people would get a second chance after doing just that?

Vick tested postive for weed when entering prison

Goodell does not play around

Vick should do the 4 games and move on

[Tim McG]

Well

Vick hasn't been on an active roster for the past 2 seasons

Vick lied to Goodell's face

How many people would get a second chance after doing just that?

Vick tested postive for weed when entering prison

Goodell does not play around

Vick should do the 4 games and move on

I get your point.

It just smacks of get-back as opposed to any real corrective measure, is all I'm saying.

Vick could never play another down for all I care.

Edited July 27, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[Jazzmoose]

"The guy’s already suffered so much."

Holy shit...talk about clueless. I mean, I get the point that he's done his time and legally that's fine. But just because he's done his time and paid the required legal penalty doesn't mean he's not a piece of shit anymore.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Jazzmoose

[catesta]

You got that right.

Besides, I have no doubt Vick will soon be starring in his own stupid fucking reality show, so he'll be fine without football.

Edited July 27, 2009 by catesta

[Shawn]

I could honestly care less about either one of these clowns. Vick should be barred from the NFL for life.

[papsrus]

If he was ... something (smart, sincere, remorseful) ... he'd accept the four-game suspension graciously and use the time to volunteer at an animal shelter -- if he could find one that would take him, and I'm pretty sure he could.

This argument made by TO that other players have done worse things and haven't been suspended is on par with a 3-year-old's "but Johnny did it, too" plea. And really, short of abusing and killing human beings, what is worse than what Vick did?

He's probably being advised by his lawyers to keep his mouth shut for now (at least I haven't heard him say anything since his release), but it would be nice to hear him make some public comment about how/if his views toward animal abuse have changed; if he plans to do anything to help abused or neglected animals now -- that kind of thing would go a long way, I would guess.

[kh1958]

He should be banned for life, but if reinstated, in his case, there should be no such thing as roughing the passer or a personal foul.

[Dan Gould]

I think everyone knows that I am a serious animal lover, particularly dogs and that I find Vick's actions truly sickening. Nevertheless I feel that after paying his debt to society, he should be allowed to ply his trade and in fact given the chance to prove that he is indeed a changed man. The Humane Society has agreed to work with him and to give him that chance, and I hope he truly takes advantage of it.

That notwithstanding, I never thought that he'd be allowed to go straight from the federal penitentiary back to the NFL. I expect the NFL to extract its pound of flesh as well, and I don't expect it to be four weeks, either (where did they come up with that anyway? This isn't a positive drug test, this is as bad as it gets with NFL players, and Goodell has given worse penalties than four weeks to other felons). Furthermore, he didn't miss time in the NFL - he was in prison. He couldn't have played if a team would have him.

I expect that Vick is going to serve a full year's suspension before he is allowed back in. If he is smart, he will spend that time repairing his public image as best he can by working with the Humane Society.

[Aggie87]

I think everyone knows that I am a serious animal lover, particularly dogs and that I find Vick's actions truly sickening. Nevertheless I feel that after paying his debt to society, he should be allowed to ply his trade and in fact given the chance to prove that he is indeed a changed man. The Humane Society has agreed to work with him and to give him that chance, and I hope he truly takes advantage of it.

That notwithstanding, I never thought that he'd be allowed to go straight from the federal penitentiary back to the NFL. I expect the NFL to extract its pound of flesh as well, and I don't expect it to be four weeks, either (where did they come up with that anyway? This isn't a positive drug test, this is as bad as it gets with NFL players, and Goodell has given worse penalties than four weeks to other felons). Furthermore, he didn't miss time in the NFL - he was in prison. He couldn't have played if a team would have him.

I expect that Vick is going to serve a full year's suspension before he is allowed back in. If he is smart, he will spend that time repairing his public image as best he can by working with the Humane Society.

I agree that I think he needs a longer suspension than 4 weeks, personally. What he did was terrible.

Though I like animals too, I don't think this is as "bad as it gets" for an NFL player, either. Leonard Little and Donte Stallworth have both killed people. Little only got a 4 game suspension (by then commish Tagliabue), and it remains to be seen what Stallworth ultimately gets.

And 10 time Pro Bowler Ray Lewis also MAY have killed two people. He was never convicted for murder though, as several witnesses' stories changed (hmmm...), and he ended up plea-bargaining. He did later reach financial settlements with both victims' families though.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Aggie87

[Soulstation1]

The max Vick will get is 4-8 games

IMO

Edited July 27, 2009 by Soulstation1

[papsrus]

Conditionally reinstated. He can play in a couple of pre-season games. Commish will consider full reinstatement by Week 6

[Jazzmoose]

Nevertheless I feel that after paying his debt to society, he should be allowed to ply his trade and in fact given the chance to prove that he is indeed a changed man.

Yeah, I can see that. I was reacting more to TO saying something stupid. Which, now that I think about it, is like posting a rant here because the sun came up this morning...

But I don't think I'll ever be a Falcons fan again. So, I have Vick to thank for my freedom from that frustration, anyway.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Jazzmoose

[Tim McG]

If he was ... something (smart, sincere, remorseful) ... he'd accept the four-game suspension graciously and use the time to volunteer at an animal shelter -- if he could find one that would take him, and I'm pretty sure he could.

This argument made by TO that other players have done worse things and haven't been suspended is on par with a 3-year-old's "but Johnny did it, too" plea. And really, short of abusing and killing human beings, what is worse than what Vick did?

He's probably being advised by his lawyers to keep his mouth shut for now (at least I haven't heard him say anything since his release), but it would be nice to hear him make some public comment about how/if his views toward animal abuse have changed; if he plans to do anything to help abused or neglected animals now -- that kind of thing would go a long way, I would guess.

Well, many players have been charged with spousal abuse, drug abuse, attempted murder, gang affiliation and the like over the years.

Again, Vick did a horrible thing by torturing then killing animals. I don't disagree. But he did his time.

At what point do allow ex-cons the opportunity to get on with their lives?

[Aggie87]

If he was ... something (smart, sincere, remorseful) ... he'd accept the four-game suspension graciously and use the time to volunteer at an animal shelter -- if he could find one that would take him, and I'm pretty sure he could.

This argument made by TO that other players have done worse things and haven't been suspended is on par with a 3-year-old's "but Johnny did it, too" plea. And really, short of abusing and killing human beings, what is worse than what Vick did?

He's probably being advised by his lawyers to keep his mouth shut for now (at least I haven't heard him say anything since his release), but it would be nice to hear him make some public comment about how/if his views toward animal abuse have changed; if he plans to do anything to help abused or neglected animals now -- that kind of thing would go a long way, I would guess.

Well, many players have been charged with spousal abuse, drug abuse, attempted murder, gang affiliation and the like over the years.

Again, Vick did a horrible thing by torturing then killing animals. I don't disagree. But he did his time.

At what point do allow ex-cons the opportunity to get on with their lives?

His jail time was for his criminal offense. He was also indefinitely banned from the NFL upon his criminal conviction, which was concurrent to the jail time.

Now I believe he's answering to the NFL's separate issues - lying to the Commissioner and his team & owner about his involvment in those activity.

Different from his jail time.

[Tim McG]

If he was ... something (smart, sincere, remorseful) ... he'd accept the four-game suspension graciously and use the time to volunteer at an animal shelter -- if he could find one that would take him, and I'm pretty sure he could.

This argument made by TO that other players have done worse things and haven't been suspended is on par with a 3-year-old's "but Johnny did it, too" plea. And really, short of abusing and killing human beings, what is worse than what Vick did?

He's probably being advised by his lawyers to keep his mouth shut for now (at least I haven't heard him say anything since his release), but it would be nice to hear him make some public comment about how/if his views toward animal abuse have changed; if he plans to do anything to help abused or neglected animals now -- that kind of thing would go a long way, I would guess.

Well, many players have been charged with spousal abuse, drug abuse, attempted murder, gang affiliation and the like over the years.

Again, Vick did a horrible thing by torturing then killing animals. I don't disagree. But he did his time.

At what point do allow ex-cons the opportunity to get on with their lives?

His jail time was for his criminal offense. He was also indefinitely banned from the NFL upon his criminal conviction, which was concurrent to the jail time.

Now I believe he's answering to the NFL's separate issues - lying to the Commissioner and his team & owner about his involvment in those activity.

Different from his jail time.

Good point, Aggie.

I hadn't thought of that. You're right, those would be separate issues.

[Soulstation1]

I bet Vick will be on a short leash when he returns!!!

Rimshot

[Aggie87]

I bet Vick will be on a short leash when he returns!!!

Rimshot

[WorldB3]

Well the NFL is a league of felons and if Ray Lewis can still play I guess you have to let Vick back.

The thing that gets to me is that Vick with his first NFL contract instead of buying a house for his mom and some nice cars bought a dog fighting compound. Its differnent then being completely stupid and brining/firing off a gun outside a night club or beating your girlfriend half to death (not that those are acceptable either) but this was a case of not doing something very stupid and wrong this was very pre meditated and wrong.

I know some people who went to his compound and they were pretty shaken from what they saw, one example was seeing the claw marks and blood on the sides of swimming pools of dogs trying not drown, and this was from people who have done animal recuse and worked with abused animals their whole lives. The NFL can do what it wants but there is difference between between someone who makes a mistake and what Vick did.

Edited July 28, 2009 by WorldB3

[papsrus]

I know some people who went to his compound and they were pretty shaken from what they saw, one example was seeing the claw marks and blood on the sides of swimming pools of dogs trying not drown, and this was from people who have done animal recuse and worked with abused animals their whole lives. The NFL can do what it wants but there is difference between between someone who makes a mistake and what Vick did.

Not to in any way excuse what he did, because like most folks, I find it revolting in the extreme, but what's being left unspoken here is that dog fighting is part of a sub-culture that is not just accepted in certain segments of society, but also a sub-culture that is spread much wider than people are often willing to acknowledge.

Cock fighting is the same damn thing. Bull fighting as well. Dog racing is not that different, except that it's mostly white guys. Greyhounds that don't perform at the track do not meet a happy fate. And those greyhounds are some of the sweetest dogs you'll ever see.

Put rodeo on the same list -- maybe a notch lower because they don't actually kill the animals (as far as I know), they just repeatedly abuse and torture them by tying their balls in a knot and jamming an electric prod into them. Yee-fuckin-haw. ... But it's OK because it's part of our cowboy heritage. Lets put it on ESPN!

/rant