Johnny Winter at Woodstock: Mean Town Blues

[AllenLowe]

no no no no no no no nono nono to all of the above - I will reply later when I have more time.

[AllenLowe]

MG - I was talking about sharpening up older musicians work - just not exclusively. There certainly was a new competetiveness, a new need to get out there and re-make the music in the '60s - but I'm not really worried about crossover.

as for BLTs, this ain't sandwhiches that we're talking about. I interpret rock and roll of the 1960s as basically a white way of thinking about black music - but no less original for it being that. And new blues is new blues, whether re-interpreted by young white guys or old black guys, or anyone in-between (and let us not forget Tracy Nelson and Janis Joplin and Maria Muldauer).

I'm basically treating rock of the 1960s as worthy of aesthetic consideration. That is all.

[JSngry]

well, ok, but everybody wants to get their hands on "the blues", when the truth is, it was here before it was here, and it'll be around after it's not here. So calling it something won't make it that, just as calling it something else won't make it that thing either.

I'm w/Braxton - ther's been blues forever. The 20th Century African-American manifestation is just the one that most of us today have the most experience with. But that is a "stream" of it, and if you take something out of that stream that doen't eventually flow back into it, then you'fe created an offshot, not remained in the stream itself.

In other words, the Missouri River is not the Mississippi River, the Mississippi River is not the Gulf of Mexico, and the Gulf of Mexico is not the Atlantic Ocean. Ok, they are in a sense, but if you try to drink from the Atlantic Ocean thinking - and then believing - that it's water from the Missouri River, somebody's got it wrong somewhere!

I'm basically treating rock of the 1960s as worthy of aesthetic consideration. That is all.

Well DUH!

[AllenLowe]

well, the reason I mention it is because sometimes we get ensnared in the social issues - which are relevant but not always.

Edited March 3, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Hot Ptah]

I think it is pertinent that the black blues artists involved at the time reportedly viewed some of the white blues musicians as legitimate. From everything I have read, Muddy Waters truly respected Butterfield and Bloomfield as blues musicians, worthy of sharing the bandstand with him in South side Chicago blues clubs.

However, I was not there and did not know any of the people involved.

[JSngry]

Fwiw, in my experience, if you prove yourself as a player & as a human, willing to put in the time, pay the dues, and live the life instead of being a spectator/tourist/etc, you will get that respect as a peer.

But that's usually not a partial offer...

[Hot Ptah]

Fwiw, in my experience, if you prove yourself as a player & as a human, willing to put in the time, pay the dues, and live the life instead of being a spectator/tourist/etc, you will get that respect as a peer.

But that's usually not a partial offer...

I don't understand the part about "but that's usually not a partial offer." What do you mean by that?

[JSngry]

I menat that interest and sincerity alone is not enough. You got to get in there & live the life, pay the dues, and play the music accordingly. You'd be surprised (or not) at how many people drop by, get "a taste" and then move out/on, using that little bit as some sort of cachet out in the bigger world. Publically, nobody might not say too much about that. But privately...

Which is just to say that, in Chicago, Bloomfield & Butterfield certainly met that criteria, as least from all I've heard.

[Hot Ptah]

Thanks for that explanation.

The entire topic of white people playing the blues is an interesting one. Blindman Blues Forum members would probably have a different take on it than the members on this board.

I wonder if this is a universal development--here in Kansas City, we have an active local Blues Society and a nightclub devoted to blues. I have been a member of the Blues Society for about 25 years. I cannot help but notice that over the years, the number of black blues performers written about, booked at the local nightclub, and pictured in the monthly Blues Society magazine, has dramatically decreased. Now the photos of local blues shows look like a late 1960s/early 1970s rock fest to me--nearly all white musicians, many in their 50s, 60s and 70s, playing the blues. Very few black blues musicians are pictured. This was not the case twenty years ago.

Also, I read a monthly national blues magazine, and it is obvious that a good many of the new blues releases every month are by white artists. A striking number of the newer black artists are children of the black blues greats, and they are usually nowhere near as good as their parent had been.

So how is this debate pertinent with regard to the blues music of today? From what I can tell, by today's scene's standards, Johnny Winter is an authentic grizzled old blues master.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I menat that interest and sincerity alone is not enough. You got to get in there & live the life, pay the dues, and play the music accordingly. You'd be surprised (or not) at how many people drop by, get "a taste" and then move out/on, using that little bit as some sort of cachet out in the bigger world. Publically, nobody might not say too much about that. But privately...

Which is just to say that, in Chicago, Bloomfield & Butterfield certainly met that criteria, as least from all I've heard.

Yes - this is something to do with (I'll put it no stronger than that) the difference between Eric Alexander playing Soul Jazz on the one hand and Pat Martino or Ronnie Cuber playing soul jazz on the oher hand. The latter musicians worked in the black organ rooms, in the whole slice of life that they carried. Eric Alexander, for all that he worked with Charles Earland, a player who was every bit the equal in all respects of Gator Tail, McDuff, Benson and Dr Lonnie, didn't work with him until that organ room scene had gone away and Earland's audience was young whites who'd gotten interested through the Acid Jazz thing. Nowt wrong with that, in itself, but it does account for some of the things Alexander plays (not all - sometimes he has it absolutely right) whereas I never hear Martino or Cuber making a false step.

MG

[Brad]

This may be a dumb question but where do you think British groups (more rockers than not I think) like the Animals and 10 Years After fit in with the question raised by Allen today?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

The Animals were from Geordieland. You know what they say about New Orleans? Well, WE say it about the Newcastle area.

MG

[AllenLowe]

I'll tell you, Eric Burdon, always one of my favorites, still has it - saw him on the telly last year.

if you can find his version of Gin Mill Blues from Monterey get it - incredible performance.

Edited March 4, 2010 by AllenLowe

[kenny weir]

BB Steve: So in the washup, what's your take on the Marybeth Hamilton book?