post-vinyl reflections on jazz collecting, then and now.

[BillF]

http://www.jazzwax.com/

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Yeah, it's OK if you like poppy kinds of music like jazz; you probably CAN get whatever you want, somehow or other, if you're prepared to pay the price.

On the other hand, if you're looking for contemporary music from Francophone West Africa, good luck on the web, sonny - go to West Africa for it. And for records from the sixties/seventies/eighties, well, tough, bud.

Can't even get a download of Jackie Ivory's "Soul discovery" (Good thing I've got the LP )

MG

[brownie]

Another excellent column from Marc Myers. I read his JazzWax blog daily.

I just pointed to him that the arrangements for the Specs Powell 'Movin' In' Roulette album were from the pen of trumpet player Ray Copeland.

One advantage of having the original vinyl. I also happen to like the cover of the album which was taken by Chuck Stewart!

[Big Beat Steve]

Predictable and understandable, those waxing musings. Though I admit I often find the 60 or 70+ minute time limit of a CD very convenient even when compared to LPs with generous playing time per side, I would not trade my vinyl for the same in CDs, let alone downloads (which no doubt are fine for "consumable" and tehrefore expendable music but much less so for really LONG-term storage and possession, i.e. COLLECTION ). Besides, though opinions and preferences may vary I still find the feel of the actual ANALOG object as well as its cover in FULL size light years above most CDs. And as for those pops, warps and crackles, true, this was and is a nuisance on vinyl but don't nobody tell me CDs will withstand the same degree of careless handling (and pressing defects aren't totally unknown on brand-new CDs either). I do have quite a few (otherwise unobtainable) vinyl platters which clearly have seen LOTs of party use in their former lives and might rate VG- or G to G+ at best by Goldmine standards and yet, for all their pops, ticks and crackles they do play through without skips. Would CDs that have seen the same kind of (ab)use play at all anymore? I doubt it. Very strongly so. And ever since the occasional CDs (from reputable labels) have started to skip on my CD player or have yielded a "No CD" message on the display I do wonder if this kind of intermittent fault is really the CD player's fault only. In the case of vinyl at least, when the actual vinyl is there and an actual stylus is on the pickup then I KNOW the platter will play. But each and every CD (NOT CD-R, that's a different matter) a few years further down the line from now? I can only hope so ...

As for availability, like MG said - there ARE tremendous amounts out there, but a HUGE lot worthy of reissue still has not been covered on CD (let alone downloads). And honestly, "complete works" availability often is nice, but haven't you all wondered if it always was worth it getting each and every snippet of this or that name artist? Are those few tracks constantly bypassed by vinyl-era reissue compilers really that essential, or aren't they just DROSS that will satisfy fanatical completists only?

Not to mention that collector's satisfaction of having unearthed more material to fill this or that gap in one's collection with minumum overlap? Sometimes getting everything in one go on CD is extremely convenient but sometimes this way of almost mechanically accumulating material rather reminds me of a bookkeeper's attitude. And am I the only one who feels reissues on CD often tend to go OOP even faster than in the vinyl era?

So there's pros and cons both here and there and not all progress is gold that glitters.

[AllenLowe]

the best storage medium is still the lp/78, which have withstood the test of time - as for MG's advice to "go to West Africa" -

I'm outta here.

[Hot Ptah]

I remember those 1970s days that he describes. I wanted to get into Ellington in a big way, and made lists of the LPs I really wanted to get, from my reading. I also wrote a letter to a jazz DJ at a public station who played a lot of Ellington, and he sent me a list of recommended Ellington LPs. Then I couldn't find most of them. They just were not available at any store within any reasonable driving distance.

I remember that the return letter from the DJ arrived in my mailbox within two weeks after I had mailed out my letter, and I felt so fortunate that I had heard from him so quickly. It was a different time.

I also recall that in the 1970s, it was common that when I would get to know another jazz fan, and would look at their album collection for the first time, that I would be amazed by certain albums that they had been able to find. Not that they had good taste in music and thus had selected a particular album--what I mean is that they had been able to locate a copy of an album that we had all heard of but had never been able to see a real copy of.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Hot Ptah

[Big Beat Steve]

True, I know that feeling from my beginner's collecting days in the 70s too, though we fortunately had four VERY decently stocked record shops with substantial jazz sections here in town, and if it hadn't been for those elusive LPs or labels that you had heard of and that the local shops sadly did not stock then the more interesting items from their stock alone would have left you broke.

But I do not think what you are (correctly) saying about availability and accessibility is something you can narrow down to the LP vs CD vs download debate. Actually this is simply a matter of the INTERNET. I happen to collect other items (beyond recorded music) too and ever since I took full advantage of the internet in c.2000 things have changed dramaticaly. I could rattle off half a dozen collecting areas and subjects where I had constantly been scrounging fleamarkets, garage sales, swap meets, the occasional small ads, following up hints from other collectors, etc. for 15 to 25 years, and though I had come up with quite a bit of stuff it was the internet that enabled me close most of those (sometimes huge) gaps and to complete entire fields of collection within maybe 2, 3 or 4 years - a few years of internet searching and buying yielded way more than I had been able to track down in the 15 to 25 years before.

So actually we are looking at two entirely different topics (which are not necessarily related as the search of diehard vinyl buffs is also MUCH easier in these days of the internet).

Edited March 1, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[A Lark Ascending]

I enjoyed my days as a scourer of record and then CD shops.

But that was then and this is now. Having weened myself off the hunt through record shops I've found I'm more than happy with the new technological model.

One of the things you can do now, which it was hard to do then, is download the specific tracks you want and then assemble the album as you require (especially useful when collecting earlier pre-LP jazz). Of course you could do that with a tape recorder but would need to buy (or borrow) recordings that frequently overlapped.

All that glitters is indeed not gold...including our warm fuzzy nostalgia for the past.

[Dave James]

I've been an inveterate hunter gatherer for as long as I can remember. First it was 45's followed closely by LP's, then CD's and now, digital media. The days I recollect most fondly though, were those spent with vinyl. Bev is right about nostalgia. As someone once said, "the past is like a foreign country; they do things differently there." Still, there was something about holding that shrinkwrapped cardboard sleeve in your hands that was very satisfying. Much more so than a CD, even in the long box era. Because you didn't have much money, deciding what to buy and what to leave for the next time were both parts of the process. This was back when almost every LP you bought was a borderline crapshoot. No samples online, you were just going on the basis of one tune you might have heard or the song line-up or the members of the band or just word of mouth. When you "won" it was great. When you "lost" it was $2.98 down the drain. I think that was part of the fun, although it might not have seemed so at the time. What goes around comes around. I find myself slowly getting back into vinyl. The cracks and pops and the occasional warped record or the need to get up and turn the record over every 20 minutes or so don't seem to be the kind of impediments they used to be. Is this nostalgia? Maybe so. It sure isn't very practical or convenient. I look at it as the musical equivalent of comfort food.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, the internet has been a boon.

I mean, I'd heard a little bit about certain jazz musicians, free jazzers, etc., but finding those on vinyl in the KC area as a late-teenager was nigh impossible.

[BillF]

The debate continues ...

http://www.jazzwax.com/

[Hot Ptah]

True, I know that feeling from my beginner's collecting days in the 70s too, though we fortunately had four VERY decently stocked record shops with substantial jazz sections here in town, and if it hadn't been for those elusive LPs or labels that you had heard of and that the local shops sadly did not stock then the more interesting items from their stock alone would have left you broke.

But I do not think what you are (correctly) saying about availability and accessibility is something you can narrow down to the LP vs CD vs download debate. Actually this is simply a matter of the INTERNET. I happen to collect other items (beyond recorded music) too and ever since I took full advantage of the internet in c.2000 things have changed dramaticaly. I could rattle off half a dozen collecting areas and subjects where I had constantly been scrounging fleamarkets, garage sales, swap meets, the occasional small ads, following up hints from other collectors, etc. for 15 to 25 years, and though I had come up with quite a bit of stuff it was the internet that enabled me close most of those (sometimes huge) gaps and to complete entire fields of collection within maybe 2, 3 or 4 years - a few years of internet searching and buying yielded way more than I had been able to track down in the 15 to 25 years before.

So actually we are looking at two entirely different topics (which are not necessarily related as the search of diehard vinyl buffs is also MUCH easier in these days of the internet).

I think both things are true. Much more jazz music from many artists has been generally available since CDs were introduced. I agree that for those elusive titles, the Internet has been the solution. I also had a list of albums I searched for everywhere for years, and within three years of being online, I had them all.