Where's Larry Kart?

[AllenLowe]

actually the first time I was in Amsterdam was in 1970 and the place was crawling with hippies and drugs - not that that's a bad thing - and than 1973 and 1988 and again maybe 2004 - radical changes, probably not unlike NYC with gentrification. Lost a lot of its charm.

never been to Belgium, but I've seen enough Austin Powers movies to know that I need to avoid the place -

[Niko]

Would it be fair to suggest that in the many times I've been in Germany, the jackboot has always been just below the surface?

This sort of stereotyping is nonsense.

depends on the region whether it would be fair... of course, this sort of stereotyping has its, ah, limits - but since we all know that and since it's fun... think it's wrong to deny that countries do have their character, and even if you can't really find out all about it from travelling a bit, that doesn't mean there is no chance of success in stereotyping...

Edited May 3, 2010 by Niko

[A Lark Ascending]

I'm not sure I'd describe bracketing the Belgian 'national character' (does that include both Flemish and Walloon?) with allusions to the Congo or the Dutroux affairs as fun.

I can't claim to know any Belgians well, but I've spent a fair bit of time in and around Ostend, Menin, Ypres. Never struck me as remotely creepy, in spite of the ghosts that walk in those areas. Ypres is one of my favourite European towns.

The ghosts of Ypres I carry with me are from my historical knowledge. It would be perfectly possible for a visitor unaware of its past to just see a charming European town (if they could avoid the memorials!).

[Niko]

I'm not sure I'd describe bracketing the Belgian 'national character' (does that include both Flemish and Walloon?) with allusions to the Congo or the Dutroux affairs as fun.

I can't claim to know any Belgians well, but I've spent a fair bit of time in and around Ostend, Menin, Ypres. Never struck me as remotely creepy, in spite of the ghosts that walk in those areas. Ypres is one of my favourite European towns.

The ghosts of Ypres I carry with me are from my historical knowledge. It would be perfectly possible for a visitor unaware of its past to just see a charming European town (if they could avoid the memorials!).

since i maybe didn't see this clearly enough: i am a big fan of Belgium... if i would plan a holiday of three or four days not too far away, brussels or antwerp or bruges would be may first choices (after paris)... just tried to explain my fascination (and you might say that some of it is for the wrong reasons...) say what you want but an idea like this recent one is so truly Belgian i can't imagine it happening anywhere else in the world... (except maybe in the UK ;-) ); i've used a Belgian painting for years as my avatar for instance...

[JSngry]

Can somebody direct me to a travel guide that lists - preferably in order of importance - what impressions a tourist should not have upon their first visit to a locale? You know, kind of a "you might find yourself thinking this, but...DON'T, because it's WRONG, even though it might be right in its own way...just DON'T THINK IT!!!!"

It would be like a jazz "guide" only for cities and countries.

Apparently there is a need!

[Dan Gould]

God, I can only imagine what such a guide would say about visiting Florida (or Texas, but I know Florida).

[JSngry]

Well, I livedin Tampa for a year-and-a-half, so if they came to me to write that chapter...they probably wouldn't!

[AllenLowe]

everybody should move to Maine -

I mean, why should I suffer alone?

[A Lark Ascending]

Can somebody direct me to a travel guide that lists - preferably in order of importance - what impressions a tourist should not have upon their first visit to a locale?...Apparently there is a need!

It's quite unnecessary.

All it takes is an assumption that the place you are visiting is as multifaceted as the place you come from, and that you'll only see the tip of the iceberg.

I visited New York in August 2001. I could write my 'impressions', full of portents of what was to come (the sudden rain storm that swept out of a blue sky on the Friday, wiping out the intense heat of the previous three days and replacing it with an oppressive gloom).

That's the trouble with a lot of travel writing - it doesn't so much reflect what the visitor sees as organise what he or she sees according to a set of preconceptions.

Replace 'see' with 'hear' and you've got a fair bit of jazz (and music in general) writing.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Bev Stapleton

[JSngry]

Thanks for clearing that up!

[Larry Kart]

Ran into Michael Moore at the band's Bimhuis concert. He said he liked my book and mentioned specific things.

OTOH, the audience there seemed quite cool (as in "cold"), had what I took to be a "prove that you have the right to be here at the Bimhuis" vibe. Have no idea, fond of stereotyping as I am, whether this is typical. Whatever, perhaps in part as a result of this edgy coolness (if indeed I wasn't imagining all that), this was the tour's least successful performance, though I don't know if the band members would agree. The venues in Cologne and Hasselt had a quite different feel, much warmth, an expectation that positive expectations were going to be fulfilled, as they then were.

[JSngry]

Ah, I see, mutifaceted then...must remember that. thanks, Larry!

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Amsterdam? Thanks to Amsterdam, the Dutch have gotten incredible mileage out of the (pedestrian) notion that the homeland is the apotheosis of the laid-back kingdom. In reality, they're the stern taskmasters of Europe. Just ask anyone!!!!!

...btw, if anyone rolls through DC in the next month or so, make sure to stop by the National Gallery of Art to see the Hendrick Avercamp 'Little Ice Age' exhibit. Small collection of paintings capturing the Dutch citizenry -- frolicking and/or performing various tasks -- on the densely packed ice during the deep freeze at the beginning of the 17th century. In several paintings, the well-dressed men are playing 'Colf'.....using wooden-shafted clubs with a 2-2.5 inch molten lead 'head' to strike a ball on the ice. Many of these 400 yr old lead 'globs' have been found in the muck. A small collection of finely crafted ice blades on display as well. It's quite fascinating....I've dropped by on five separate occasions to further study these incredibly detailed paintings.

[AllenLowe]

well, maybe we shouldn't expect much from a country whose prime export is:

[JSngry]

So...not multi-faceted, then?

This is becoming confusing...where's that guidebook that will tell me what not to think?

I know there's a market!

[A Lark Ascending]

So...not multi-faceted, then?

This is becoming confusing...where's that guidebook that will tell me what not to think?

I know there's a market!

As one of the Five Great Minds on this board who are endlessly telling people what to think I doubt if it would be beyond your capabilities to reverse your polarity (doing that always improves old Blue Note recordings) and write it yourself.

Like your colleagues, you have the Old Testament certainty to be able to bring it off and convince the impressionable.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Bev Stapleton

[JSngry]

So...not multi-faceted, then?

This is becoming confusing...where's that guidebook that will tell me what not to think?

I know there's a market!

As one of the Five Great Minds on this board who are endlessly telling people what to think I doubt if it would be beyond your capabilities to reverse your polarity (doing that always improves old Blue Note recordings) and write it yourself.

Like your colleagues, you have the Old Testament certainty to be able to bring it off and convince the impressionable.

See, it's not that I mind you being a pompous opinionated asshole jsut like the rest of us. It's your refusal to admit to being one yourself that bugs me sometimes.

Sometimes, mind you, not always.

[AllenLowe]

"As one of the Five Great Minds on this board who are endlessly telling people what to think"

I'm greatly relieved to read this, as when I submitted my resume for that particular Organissimo designation, I was informed that the job was already taken, but that I could apply to be number 6 -

Edited May 3, 2010 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

I think 6 might have been before the 2010 census.

or after...I'm trying to be multifaceted about all this.

[A Lark Ascending]

If it's pompous and opinionated to feel that I only have a partial grasp on things and therefore fight shy of telling everybody what they ought to be listening to (and what they ought not to be listening to) or in making daft assertions about 'national character' based on a flying visit then I admit to pompous opinionated assholehood.

Your right to say what you want goes unquestioned; but I reserve the right to question it if I think it's twaddle (which, to be fair, it is only sometimes).

Come on. You Great Minds get endless amounts of supine deference. I'm sure you can put up with the odd poster who is not paralysed in the presence of minor celebrity.

[JSngry]

Bev - believe me when I say that you are as great of a mind as anybody else on here. It's your attitude that sucks!

[AllenLowe]

the problem with internet postings is that if I say -

"the Chocolate Drops are a bad band"

it comes off as arrogant - however, if I say -

"I just don't like the Chocoloate Drops; in my opinion they need improvement; they are seriously deficient, to my perspective, of musical quality; they lack, from my point of view, an ability to produce music that meets the standards of post-modern methods of critical analysis" -

well, it sounds a little better - but I'm getting old and I don't have many more good years left. So why waste what little time I have on complicated critical exposition (like this post)?

so I just say "the Chocolate Drops are a bad band"

but really, Bev, I'm not telling you what to listen to. I'm telling you what I listen to - or what I DON'T listen to. There's a difference.

on the other hand you may be right.

or you may be wrong - it's not for me to judge (ask those OTHER 5 guys) -

Edited May 3, 2010 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

Based on preliminary census returns, that number's now up to 15, so there's now more than enough supine deference to go around!

[A Lark Ascending]

but really, Bev, I'm not telling you what to listen to. I'm telling you what I listen to - or what I DON'T listen to. There's a difference.

And I mention that too...but there's a major difference in the way we tell it. I always work on the assumption that there is a more than equal chance that they problem lies in my hearing, context or preconceptions rather than anything wrong with the music.

I must admit I've now got visions of Brittany Spears making her next record and then having doubts prior to release: 'but does this music meet the standards of post-modern methods of critical analysis?'

[JSngry]

the problem with internet postings is that if I say -

"the Chocolate Drops are a bad band"

it comes off as arrogant - however, if I say -

"I just don't like the Chocoloate Drops; in my opinion they need improvement; they are seriously deficient, to my perspective, of musical quality; they lack, from my point of view, an ability to produce music that meets the standards of post-modern methods of critical analysis" -

well, it sounds a little better - but I'm getting old and I don't have many more good years left. So why waste what little time I have on complicated critical exposition (like this post)?

And if you do do it like that, you get fucked with for being "pompous" and such. So it's really a lose/lose deal, this having a strongly held opinion and being able to explain exactly why you have it is.

But oh well about that!