jazzbo Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Man it sure is hard to tell those two apart sometimes? Except Freddie was Freddie first. . . . Listening to the Atlantic cd of the Cotillion "My Feeling for the Blues." Everyone else is out of the office and Freddie is making the finish line seem like I'll get to it! This one cooks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 There are people out there who are not Clapton fans and he has put out his fair share of dreck. However it hasn't been all bad and getting to the point of Eric and Freddie like he did with Otis Rush etc EC couldn't really improve on what they did and so he did a credible job of copying them. Personally I'm grateful to EC for alerting me to these blues greats and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 NO, I'm not really knocking Eric. . . . Eric led me to a lot of music. When I hear Freddie in the late sixties and seventies both the playing and the singing just scream out ERIC to me. . . . The Rush connection is very real too. Anyway, I wish Freddie King were as well known as Eric, but. . . maybe one day. We've still got Eric! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 No sweat Jazzbo I pretty well knew where you were coming from. I was referring to other people who have knocked Clapton at times justifiably so. I agree with you that Freddie should be as well known at Clapton and in a perfect world he would be better known then Clapton-he was a helluva guitar player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 (edited) Freddie King Albert King Otis Rush Magic Sam Albert Collins all of 'em Gods ... IMHO, I don't think Clapton compares to these guys at all. Consider all the horseshit he has put out over the years ... tasteless horseshit. On the other hand, with the possible exception of a few Freddie King records, everything these guys did was great. Burning, tastful and damn soulful. Sorry for ranting and I know nobody was asserting that Clapton was better, but I just get a little tired of the Claption is God stuff, much of which comes from the mouths of my friends. Clapton was/is competent pop artist and a decent blues copycat, but is incredibly overrated as a blues guitarist. Eric Edited January 1, 2004 by Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 After Cream, I lost interest in Clapton's guitar playing. And then after the early '80's I really didn't like his music too much (it wasn't always about the guitar playing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 (edited) Anyway, I wish Freddie King were as well known as Eric, but. . . maybe one day. We've still got Eric! Your wish will certainly come true. I would guess that it will already be true 20 years from now. In not, then certainly in 50. Not meaning to knock Clapton, the main difference between EC and the guitarists listed by Eric above is that those guitarists used their guitars as extensions of their own individual voices. Their sounds and approaches are unmistakable. True, Clapton can also sound like all of them. But we already have all of them. Edited December 31, 2003 by John L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 You know I really like the Cream Clapton and the Clapton of say "No Reason To Cry" best. . . both were a little bit different than the blues artist formerly known as Guitar God. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dig dis Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Clapton? Well, I love Cream and the early seventies rock, and even the JJ Cale-type stuff. However, I have to say, and with all due respect to EC fans out there, that I believe Clapton is terribly overrated as a straight blues guitarist. His phrasing, to my ears, is always awkward and his ideas, such as they are, are never communicated because of it. Even when he really tries hard to play straight ahead blues, he just doesn't seem to get it. There are many other players of his generation, and younger, who do a better job. One contemporary of his who I would recommend is Peter Green, who was able to achieve a more natural blues sound. Don't get me wrong, some of the blues-rock Cream type stuff sounds great, but the Freddie and Otis Rush type stuff takes a sort of relaxed yet intense approach that Eric never got. I bet he must have sh*t his pants the first time he heard Jimmie Vaughan--as many of us did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Clapton? Well, I love Cream and the early seventies rock, and even the JJ Cale-type stuff. However, I have to say, and with all due respect to EC fans out there, that I believe Clapton is terribly overrated as a straight blues guitarist. His phrasing, to my ears, is always awkward and his ideas, such as they are, are never communicated because of it. Even when he really tries hard to play straight ahead blues, he just doesn't seem to get it. There are many other players of his generation, and younger, who do a better job. One contemporary of his who I would recommend is Peter Green, who was able to achieve a more natural blues sound. Don't get me wrong, some of the blues-rock Cream type stuff sounds great, but the Freddie and Otis Rush type stuff takes a sort of relaxed yet intense approach that Eric never got. I bet he must have sh*t his pants the first time he heard Jimmie Vaughan--as many of us did. I investigated Peter Green's music last Summer and found out he's an overrated Clapton wanna-be. Way over-hyped. Whatta waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upright Bill Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Freddie King Albert King Otis Rush Magic Sam Albert Collins all of 'em Gods ... IMHO, I don't think Clapton compares to these guys at all. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dig dis Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 I investigated Peter Green's music last Summer and found out he's an overrated Clapton wanna-be. Way over-hyped.  Whatta waste of money. Which stuff did you hear? i know that Peter has done some recent stuff...not heard it, so I cannot comment on it except to say that reviews I have read have not been so favorable. Have you heard the early Fleetwood Mac stuff from the sixties? The album names escape me but that is the stuff to try. If you still think he is a poor Clapton wannabe, well, to each his own, but my tastes run the exact opposite. I think Green's best stuff is the real thing and that Clapton is the blues-wannabe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 I've always thought Clapton was somewhat over-rated (over-worshiped is probably a better way of putting it). That's not to say I haven't enjoyed a lot of his work, nor that he's not a great guitarist and musician, but the rock star hype is just that, to a degree. I actually prefer Clapton in a setting other than straight ahead blues, for reasons that have already been mentioned. The last few times I've heard him, he was doing Freddie King tributes, and unfortunately it just wasn't happening at all. Clapton to me usually sounds like his blues solos could be coming from sheet music. He doesn't have that spontaneous phrasing and soul that the great ones have (I agree with the "relaxed intensity" comment). I think some of the best Clapton blues playing I ever heard was the live recording he did with F.K. ("1934-1976"). What could have been more inspiring to him than to share the stage with his idol? There are probably a lot of blues players of his generation that have made Clapton s**t his pants over the years (Robert Cray, Duke Robillard, Charlie Baty, Ronnie Earl...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 The only Peter Green I've heard was the early Mac stuff, and I couldn't stand it. Made Clapton sound great, in my opinion, although I've never been a Clapton fan. (And is anyone really using that "Clapton is God" line still? I thought that disappeared shortly after Derek and the Dominos! Now that album had some fine guitar. Clapton has never been more masterful! Amazing stuff!! What? That was Duane Allman? Oh well... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robviti Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 That's all I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted January 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Clem, the Vaughn mentioned above was JIMMIE. I've learned to like Stevie. . . but Jimmie I liked the first time I saw him stand in front of a mike and sing and solo. . . .! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 I investigated Peter Green's music last Summer and found out he's an overrated Clapton wanna-be. Way over-hyped.  Whatta waste of money. Which stuff did you hear? i know that Peter has done some recent stuff...not heard it, so I cannot comment on it except to say that reviews I have read have not been so favorable. Have you heard the early Fleetwood Mac stuff from the sixties? The album names escape me but that is the stuff to try. If you still think he is a poor Clapton wannabe, well, to each his own, but my tastes run the exact opposite. I think Green's best stuff is the real thing and that Clapton is the blues-wannabe. John Mayall - A Hard Road: The early tunes show that Pete had problems playing in tune. He gets a bit more interesting later on the disc. Still, he's walking in Clapton's shoes. Fleetwood Mac - Then Play On: Makes me wonder what the big deal is. Fleetwood Mac - Live in Boston, V1 & 2: who's who? Also one of the Splinter Group discs. So forgettable I don't even know what I did with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 7/4: uhhhhhhhhhhh? Peter Green w/Mayall, Peter Green w/Fleetwood Mac, Peter Green guesting on various '60s sides. Drugs and mental illness took their toll and he's sort of a shell of his former self, at least on record but Green's '60s work is HUGE. I AM talking about the '60's material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Different strokes for different folks I guess. Jimmie Vaughan is one of the worst guitarists playing for money that I know of. One of Eric Clapton's strengths is his versatility. Just within his blues playing he can play wild like Buddy Guy as well as Buddy Guy and he gets as close to B.B King's sweet tone as anyone but B.B. Don't knock the guy because certain people hold him in higher esteem than some great players. He would be the first to tell you B.B. and Buddy and Freddy and Otis and Robert johnson were the REAL blues players. One of his goals has been to bring attention to these players who are his heros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted January 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 (edited) Well, Jimmy restrains and edits so much, though I have seen him cut loose on a stage and really FRY. I like him for the reasons that I love Grant Green. I wouldn't at all agree that he is one of the worst! He's so much better than a lot of blustery blues guys. Clem, yeah Derek O'Brian. . . no argument he's an amazing player. I like him better than Stevie too. And I played for several years with an Austin guitarist that I KNOW--even if not many others do--is a fantastic blues guitarist, Jon Elzey. It's too bad that he was convinced to save the world through Scientology instead of pursue his blues . . . . Edited January 1, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Jimmy's too cool, love the guy. I remember being hip to him and hearing rumors 'bout his bro Stevie. I still have a poster from the Fast Lane, Asbury Park, NJ, 6/6/80. After the show I shook Jimmy's hand as the bouncer was getting ready to remove Kim Wilson from the bar for some remarks he made to a stunning blond.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Couple of points above ... I agree, Clapton has tried to help popularize his (and my) heros. I also think "overhyped" and "overworshiped" are right on ... not his fault for sure. Anyway, I have used this album to "convert" a number of my previously uninitiated friends to what blues guitar is all about ... damn near perfect record: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 or this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 or this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 (edited) or this : Edited January 1, 2004 by Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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