JSngry Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Nobody has said it yet, so I will. If there are elements of the man's "real life" that bother you, don't let them overshadow the ideals that he tried to represnt as a public figure. All our heroes are idealized version of real people with real faults, so let's accept that and move on, shall we? There's more, so much more to the man's legacy of thoughtful examination of the human condiditon than "I Have A Dream", but if that's what works, go for it. Nothing wrong there. Peace out. Have a great MLK day, and keep the dream alive as much as possible the other 364/365. And even more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 For this country Martin Luther King was perhaps the most important man of the century for the benefit of the country. What many hoped to accomplish, he was a part of the accomplishment. His work (and not his alone but he was a catalyst, a heartbeat, a backbone) has transformed the culture for so many. His work and his words actually have made this country move closer to the kind of country we and our fathers and mothers and grandfathers and grandmothers and great-great-great-grea-great grandfathers/mothers have wanted it to be. What a lot of politicians talk, he walked. I'm honoring him today by thinking of his legacy, thinking of the improvements I have seen in my life that he was a part of, and by daydreaming of my own hopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 (edited) I was working at WNEW when the March on Washington took place--I had two bus tickets and was eager to go, but Metromedia wouldn't give me the day off. In a way, that was a good thing, for I gave the tickets to two African-American friends who had to be talked into using them. They came back to NYC with a glow on their faces that I shall never forget--better still, it sparked in them an interest in the Civil Rights movement that had not been there before. Yes, Johnny, this is a day for all of us to reflect. It so happens that I am already doing some heavy thinking, because I am currently going through 1772 tax ledgers for the Virgin Islands, entering into a database every household, every institution and their slaves. The islands were owned by Denmark at the time, so these are records kept for the Danish King. I am translating into English, which is no problem, but the handwriting of 300 years ago was more decorative than readable. Anyway, it is an assignment that gives me much to think about, especially since--coming from Denmark--one has a tendency to think of slavery as some other country's outrage. Edited January 19, 2004 by Christiern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Skid Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Our Sunday paper published his "I Have a Dream" speech in its entirety yesterday. It had been way too long since I had read his words, and they still have as much power and beauty today as they did in 1963: I Have A Dream I didn't realize that he was only 34 years old at the time of that speech! "Have we not come to such an impasse in the modern world that we must love our enemies -- or else? The chain reaction of evil -- hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars - must be broken, or else we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation." -- "Strength to Love," 1963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Yes, Johnny, this is a day for all of us to reflect. It so happens that I am already doing some heavy thinking, because I am currently going through 1772 tax ledgers for the Virgin Islands, entering into a database every household, every institution and their slaves. Just curious, Chris, why are you doing this? For geneological research, historical research for a biographical project, or what? If it's none of my business, feel free to say so. It's just that it sounds like a most "unusual" project. Thanks, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Another incredible piece of King's writing is his letter to the clergymen that he wrote while sitting in an Alabama prison cell. Among other things, it says to me; this is what argumentative writing is supposed to look like!!! That speech he gave just before he was assasinated (I may not get there with you...) brings tears to my eyes every time I see it. A great mover of deeds in our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 You can listen to the man himself all day on WHRB: http://www.whrb.org . The stream can be temperamental, but the wma stream is working ok for me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Yet, I can't help but feel a "Civil Rights Day" instead of an "MLK Day" would be much more inclusive in a number of important ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Do you not feel "included" on Martin Luther King Day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Yes, Johnny, this is a day for all of us to reflect. It so happens that I am already doing some heavy thinking, because I am currently going through 1772 tax ledgers for the Virgin Islands, entering into a database every household, every institution and their slaves. Just curious, Chris, why are you doing this? For geneological research, historical research for a biographical project, or what? If it's none of my business, feel free to say so. It's just that it sounds like a most "unusual" project. Thanks, Jim I guess it is unusual. I am doing it for a research project (not mine) that deals with Denmark's involvement in the slave trade. I am working on 1772 now, but I will be going much farther back. The reason I was asked to do this is my familiarity with Gothic handwriting and the Danish language of that period. I have been working on a book dealing with my own family which entailed going through, deciphering and translating letters, diaries and papers going back to the early 19th century. BTW, I was glad to discover that my family (major coffee merchants who owned plantations in South America and the Caribbean region) were never involved in the slave trade. They were possibly the richest family in Denmark at one point, but a not so business-savvy great great grandfather of mine lost the family fortune. This will give you an idea of what I have to work with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 JSngry: In all honesty, yes ... at least where I am, this has taken on the overtones of a holiday that's only about black/white race relations and improvements/lack thereof. My vision of a Civil Rights Day would be broader than this, as many groups have had (and continue to have) struggles similar to blacks. I'm one of those nutty idealists who would prefer a totally "color-blind" approach to things. PS: This would also address those who have problems separating King's public and personal lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Not to be smart, but do you feel bothered in the same way by, say, Lincoln's Birthday? Is it ever safe to celebtrate a person and their accomplishmens/contribution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Celebrate leadership and your better half; be humble about the beast within you, and everyone of us. I haven't been to D.C. for awhile, but I remember the neighorhood on Capitol Hill that burned after his death, and much of had not been rebuilt by 1980 when I lived there. Ditto areas of Newark. So just think about what the struggle, the "dialogue" would have been like without MLK. This man diffused a potential civil unrest of vast proportions. If he were alive today, white America would be lining up to kiss his ass as the man who saved this country from another civil war. MLK stepped up to lead with a message of defiant integrity, to somehow peacefully unleash a forceful shame upon white America. Amazing, and it was happening before his murder made him a martyr. Anybody who doesn't believe in this day doesn't think much about the pace of progress on racism, and public education for that matter, before and after MLK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 JSngry: In all honesty, yes ... at least where I am, this has taken on the overtones of a holiday that's only about black/white race relations and improvements/lack thereof. My vision of a Civil Rights Day would be broader than this, as many groups have had (and continue to have) struggles similar to blacks. I'm one of those nutty idealists who would prefer a totally "color-blind" approach to things. PS: This would also address those who have problems separating King's public and personal lives. Well, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's a lot of white folks in my neck of the woods who view this as a "black folks holiday" only and don't see any relevance in it for them AT ALL. Which, while missing the point of the holiday entirely, makes it as well. Funny how that works... We are a society in transistion, definitely constantly and perhaps eternally so. But for our "ideals" (ANY ideals, not just the ones espoused by Dr. King) to even remotely begin to come true, it requires a leap of faith (or if you prefer, a "suspension of disbelief") that even if the ideals are not yet reality, even if the ideals may never reach full fruition, that it is better to hold onto them and "get to know" them instead of discarding them completely, even if modification along the way is needed. The former is an affirmative act, an act of optimism, whereas the latter is an act of defeat, of cynicism. Life goes on regardless of what the choice is, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 We are a society in transistion, definitely constantly and perhaps eternally so. But for our "ideals" (ANY ideals, not just the ones espoused by Dr. King) to even remotely begin to come true, it requires a leap of faith (or if you prefer, a "suspension of disbelief") that even if the ideals are not yet reality, even if the ideals may never reach full fruition, that it is better to hold onto them and "get to know" them instead of discarding them completely, even if modification along the way is needed. The former is an affirmative act, an act of optimism, whereas the latter is an act of defeat, of cynicism. I agree 100 percent, JS ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 (edited) BTW, I was glad to discover that my family (major coffee merchants who owned plantations in South America and the Caribbean region) were never involved in the slave trade. They were possibly the richest family in Denmark at one point, Hhmmmm, interesting coincidence. I've been doing a little archival research of my own and discovered that a few key documents seem to have been slightly 'altered'. Now you wouldn't know anything about that Chris, would you? Edited January 19, 2004 by Son-of-a-Weizen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mule Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Well, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's a lot of white folks in my neck of the woods who view this as a "black folks holiday" only and don't see any relevance in it for them AT ALL. Well, as an African-American friend of mine is fond of saying: "You gotta be some kind of racist to not want another holiday with pay." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Well, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's a lot of white folks in my neck of the woods who view this as a "black folks holiday" only and don't see any relevance in it for them AT ALL. Well, as an African-American friend of mine is fond of saying: "You gotta be some kind of racist to not want another holiday with pay." JSngry, are this white folks relatives of Jesse Helms by any chance??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Very funny, Weizen, but one small problem--I am Albertson because my father was the son of Albert (an old Icelandic thing, that). My Danish family name is Broberg. Otherwise, commendable research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Oh rats...how clumsy of me. I forgot to post page 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 JSngry, are this white folks relatives of Jesse Helms by any chance??? Not that anybody can prove, but you know how THAT goes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 I see Martin Luther King as a great American who espoused positive change through peaceful means. He was influenced by the methods of Mahatma Ghandi and the writings of Leo Tolstoy. Like these two predecessors, he spoke to his country's moral conscience. I do not view this as a "black man's holiday." King's message is universal and speaks to us all. In a violent and dynamic time, he communicated by his words and actions the need for positive change. He was a great man; and it was shameful that he was senselessly killed. He definitely deserves a holiday in his honor as he was a great American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Oh rats...how clumsy of me. I forgot to post page 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 I can forgive you for that, weizy, but I think you were being just a little dishonest when you didn't even mention the accompanying document, the last two pages of which I hereby post: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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