Choosing the sex of your child...

[Jim Alfredson]

Something about the entire idea of this just doesn't sit right with me. Oh yeah... it's that whole "playing with nature" thing.

Choosing the sex of your child...

Thoughts?

[vibes]

Pricey, so it doesn't look like it will be widespread any time soon. Regardless, I don't have a problem with the idea. When I first heard about this, the first thing that came to mind was the implications from widespread use of this technology, especially in places like China, where one gender is favored over another. Upsetting the natural gender balance in the population could have disastrous effects down the road.

[vibes]

I should also say that the idea sounds appealing to me simply because I like the idea of having a daughter (I don't have any children yet), but based on my heritage, it seems less likely that I'll have one. There are four boys and one girl in my family. There were two boys and one girl in my father's family. There were seven boys and 3 girls in my grandfather's family. Knowing this, being able to select the gender of my child sounds somewhat appealing.

[connoisseur series500]

I don't know what to think, but I'll tell you what...if I were a parent who had five boys or five girls and wanted another child, I'd probably look at the technology in a very accepting way.

[connoisseur series500]

Well, Vibes, you bring up a point. I've always wondered: are people predisposed to engender kids of one sex? Or is it a pure 50/50 chance every time?

I guess I must have been sleeping through my biology classes when this subject came up.

[Jazzmoose]

I haven't clicked on the link yet to see what y'all are talking about, but I think most parents would have to have the option to choose their children's sex, and would probably opt for "none at least until after high school".

[Guy Berger]

Pricey, so it doesn't look like it will be widespread any time soon.  Regardless, I don't have a problem with the idea.  When I first heard about this, the first thing that came to mind was the implications from widespread use of this technology, especially in places like China, where one gender is favored over another.  Upsetting the natural gender balance in the population could have disastrous effects down the road.

China, in fact, has a massive gender imbalance due to the one-child policy -- I read somewhere that there is a surplus of about 50 million males. This could lead to massive social unrest!

Guy

p.s. I wonder if it will get to the point where China starts importing brides from the rest of the world. Or exporting husbands, for that matter.

Edited January 25, 2004 by Guy Berger

[vibes]

Pricey, so it doesn't look like it will be widespread any time soon.  Regardless, I don't have a problem with the idea.  When I first heard about this, the first thing that came to mind was the implications from widespread use of this technology, especially in places like China, where one gender is favored over another.  Upsetting the natural gender balance in the population could have disastrous effects down the road.

China, in fact, has a massive gender imbalance due to the one-child policy -- I read somewhere that there is a surplus of about 50 million males. This could lead to massive social unrest!

Guy

p.s. I wonder if it will get to the point where China starts importing brides from the rest of the world. Or exporting husbands, for that matter.

Guy, you are correct. I wasn't referring to China, but rather to the population of a country in general (although, I can see how I could have written that in a less ambiguous fashion). The early years of the one-child policy were a disaster in terms of balancing the population in China, simply because Chinese society has always placed a higher value on males than females - people frequently killed female babies or abandoned them just so they could have another chance at having a son. Fortunately, the one-child policy isn't as stricly enforced in rural areas now, where the problem was most serious. On my last visit there, I actually saw signs promoting larger families in a few small towns.

China's a long way off from importing brides, if you ask me. Most Chinese couldn't afford to do so, and most people don't want to live in China anyway.

[Claude]

Not only a government-dictated one-child policy creates strong gender imbalance, also some extreme cultural traditions, as in India:

India's lost girls

[Chuck Nessa]

This reminds me of an antagonistic confrontation with a drunken guy in a jazz club. He said snickerinly "So, do YOU have any children?". I said, "Yes, a girl and a boy". He said "How nice, one of each". I asked about his family, he said "two girls, two boys" and I said "How nice, one of each".

[connoisseur series500]

This reminds me of an antagonistic confrontation with a drunken guy in a jazz club. He said snickerinly "So, do YOU have any children?". I said, "Yes, a girl and a boy". He said "How nice, one of each". I asked about his family, he said "two girls, two boys" and I said "How nice, one of each".

I'm still trying to figure this one out and I'm not drunk.

[Dr. Rat]

I should also say that the idea sounds appealing to me simply because I like the idea of having a daughter (I don't have any children yet), but based on my heritage, it seems less likely that I'll have one. There are four boys and one girl in my family. There were two boys and one girl in my father's family. There were seven boys and 3 girls in my grandfather's family. Knowing this, being able to select the gender of my child sounds somewhat appealing.

Has anyone in your family ever gone to a genetic reproduction clinic about this?

They might even give you a free test once you fill them in on your story.

And yes there are reasons for this sort of thing--my girlfriend is the expert, though: she worked in a genetic counselling lab for a few years (not much of that sort of work up here in TC, though).

Let me work out the probabilities, here: the 2:1 distribution is normal, so we'll throw that out.

So we got 11/15 boys. Normal distribution would be, for our purposes, 7 boys. The chances for next boy is 50/50 or .5 and so on. By my calculations the chances of your family's sexual distribution happening at random is something like 6.25%. Not really so far-fetched, I guess.

I haven't actually given this much thought, so perhaps a more math-minded person could correct this.

--eric

[connoisseur series500]

I should also say that the idea sounds appealing to me simply because I like the idea of having a daughter (I don't have any children yet), but based on my heritage, it seems less likely that I'll have one.  There are four boys and one girl in my family.  There were two boys and one girl in my father's family.  There were seven boys and 3 girls in my grandfather's family.  Knowing this, being able to select the gender of my child sounds somewhat appealing.

Has anyone in your family ever gone to a genetic reproduction clinic about this?

They might even give you a free test once you fill them in on your story.

And yes there are reasons for this sort of thing--my girlfriend is the expert, though: she worked in a genetic counselling lab for a few years (not much of that sort of work up here in TC, though).

Let me work out the probabilities, here: the 2:1 distribution is normal, so we'll throw that out.

So we got 11/15 boys. Normal distribution would be, for our purposes, 7 boys. The chances for next boy is 50/50 or .5 and so on. By my calculations the chances of your family's sexual distribution happening at random is something like 6.25%. Not really so far-fetched, I guess.

I haven't actually given this much thought, so perhaps a more math-minded person could correct this.

--eric

So it's a random chance every time, right? Or are people genetically predisposed to engender a child of a particular sex?

Anyone know?

[Dr. Rat]

So it's a random chance every time, right? Or are people genetically predisposed to engender a child of a particular sex?

Essentially it's random chance. That's the expected state of affairs. A 50/50 as to whether an X or a Y sperm gets to the (always x) ova first.

But other factors can come into play. One obvious one would be a mutation on the X chromosome which would cause all or most XX zygotes (not sure this is the technically correct term here) to be spontaneously aborted.

I imagine there might be other mutations on the X that might, say, make the X sperms far less lively (like dragging around a whole load of extra genetic material), but here I speculate. I'll send an email to my gal, she'll know.

--eric

[Dr. Rat]

I should also say that the idea sounds appealing to me simply because I like the idea of having a daughter (I don't have any children yet), but based on my heritage, it seems less likely that I'll have one.  There are four boys and one girl in my family.  There were two boys and one girl in my father's family.  There were seven boys and 3 girls in my grandfather's family.  Knowing this, being able to select the gender of my child sounds somewhat appealing.

Has anyone in your family ever gone to a genetic reproduction clinic about this?

They might even give you a free test once you fill them in on your story.

And yes there are reasons for this sort of thing--my girlfriend is the expert, though: she worked in a genetic counselling lab for a few years (not much of that sort of work up here in TC, though).

Let me work out the probabilities, here: the 2:1 distribution is normal, so we'll throw that out.

So we got 11/15 boys. Normal distribution would be, for our purposes, 7 boys. The chances for next boy is 50/50 or .5 and so on. By my calculations the chances of your family's sexual distribution happening at random is something like 6.25%. Not really so far-fetched, I guess.

I haven't actually given this much thought, so perhaps a more math-minded person could correct this.

--eric

This, by the way, is completely wrong.

At least I think,

--eric

[Dr. Rat]

OK.

No one is interested, I'm sure, but it turns out that calculating the probability of a particular number of boys here is pretty complicated, involving the use of Pascal's Triangle (interesting in itself). There is a triangle generator at Swarthmore if you want to work it out yourself. (The triangle is realted to fractals and Fibonacci numbers, as well. Fun fun)

I find that I should not have thrown out the 2 males out of three family. So your family stands at 13 boys out of 18 tries, which I find to be 3.3% probability.

8568/262144

.032684326171875 or about 3.3%

My former gentic councellor friend could think of no male-favoring mutation right off the bat.

But I'm probably still wrong.

--eric

Edited January 27, 2004 by WNMC

[connoisseur series500]

Thanks for your comments on this thread, WNMC. Just don't try to clone that little bugger on your avatar. B)

[Dr. Rat]

Thanks for your comments on this thread, WNMC. Just don't try to clone that little bugger on your avatar. B)

Don't worry, he's a nice rat. Just don't give him anything to chew!

Coincidentally, they just announced the first rat cloning in September.

--eric