Larry Kart Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I have no memories like that.Why is the "You crack me up" face not available these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I recall a 1985 McLaughlin performance with the Tonight Show orchestra (i.e. Doc Severinsen's TS Orch., with Carson the host, though I don't see Doc there) that left the members of the band fairly well dazzled: Trying to get a bit of the 'back to the tradition' action was he? All this a year after 'the guitar synth' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Calling Roy Clark?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Roy Clark, the guitarist who looks like drummer Rusty Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarThrower Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Tonight show band is too fucking loud. Anyway, JM is part of the tradition, and he's contributed a great deal to it's evolution. Bravo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 and Butter Flies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Well, it was fun to run across it on network TV. Or so I thought at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 As I said, no memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmn5J8W8XnQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Tonight show band is too fucking loud. Anyway, JM is part of the tradition, and he's contributed a great deal to it's evolution. Bravo! His contributions to Jazz-Rock are unsurpassed. But the music concerned with 'the back to the tradition' movement, he was too young too have contributed too from Europe or no. To be fair to McLaughlin, he did/does switch between acoustic and electric projects at random and throughout his musical journey. Still, however, he hadn't gone near 'standards' or traditional repertoire since 'very early' 1970's, so the suit and 'changes' schtick does beg the question. Was this around the time of his involvement with 'Round Midnight' The Movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarThrower Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Acoustic, electric, who cares? And at random? I doubt it. I'm saying he's a versatile musician who can play the spectrum of jazz styles. He's not like Al Di Meola, who really can't play jazz. Edited March 10, 2013 by starthrower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Acoustic, electric, who cares? And at random? I doubt it. I'm saying he's a versatile musician who can play the spectrum of jazz styles. He's not like Al Di Meola, who really can't play jazz. How about - 'at will'. McLaughlin can play changes alright. No fudging there. The Organ trio recording with Elvin Jones is one of my favourite recordings by anyone - ever. And I don't really dig Defrancesco much 'at all'. But he made some great recordings with Guitar masters...Pat Martino and Larry Coryell. Can't Dimeola play straight ahead? He probably could if he wanted too? Edited March 10, 2013 by freelancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarThrower Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I don't think Di Meola has the harmonic knowledge to blow over changes. Just listen to him enough, and you quickly realize he has very limited ideas as a soloist. He's great at what he does, which is play through composed compositions with complex rhythms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I don't think Di Meola has the harmonic knowledge to blow over changes. Just listen to him enough, and you quickly realize he has very limited ideas as a soloist. He's great at what he does, which is play through composed compositions with complex rhythms. Didn't Di Meola play with Return To Forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarThrower Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Yes, and Chick wasn't writing the same type of music after Al joined the band. Just listen to Di Meola's solos on the RTF DVD. They are mind numbingly boring. Every solo dissolves in a flurry of rapid fire triplet runs because he has no ideas after a couple of choruses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Calling Roy Clark?!? Seconded. Those pentatonic licks swing like a Clem Kadiddlehopper rusty gate at the Grand old Opry. ; ' ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Oh, I like Roy Clark just fine. And McLaughlin even more. But as with McLaughlin here, I do remember Clark as being one of those guys who would from time to time "flex their versatility" by playing something not expected of them - and as cases, play their own "language" over a "jazz setting" to make it look like they could play "anything". Which, in a way, is exactly the point, and yeah, I suppose there is a point there. But so is the point that neither were really "jazz players" in the literal/linear sense nearly as much as they were just damn good players, period, and in McLaughlin's case, quite an innovative one who impacted a large segment of players and listeners who would at best "overlap" with "real jazz". That mattered to me a whole helluva lot more then than it does now, but I still prefer an awareness of the perception of the distinction than a denial of it, just because. But - hearing him play "Cherokee" while nonstop seeing Russ Tompkins (who I've sense heard was probably the exact opposite of a personality than his appearance would suggest..the perfect cover, perhaps!) in the the background really doesn't too anything for (or to) me, other than yet again show what an excellent musician John McLaughlin is, which I coulda told you anyway! Now if somebody can find a clip of the Midnight Special segment where Glen Campell quite possibly cut George Benson (or so it seemed when I was away from the set's picture) , then we'll have something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Dimeola really cannot play jazz, at all. His lines bear no resemblance to the tradition, and he also has one of the most egotistical and insecure musicians I've ever heard. He got into the guitar synth thing feeling supposedly jealous of Metheny, and asked Dan Gottlieb on the "Soaring Through a Dream" album to emulate the Metheny cymbal groove. Frank Gambale had way more jazz chops to spare, regardless of what people feel about his playing, and it makes the guitar playing on "The Mothership Returns" more enjoyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) I like them both for different reasons. I probably play LDS more often, because I just love the rough and ready sound and then there's the beauty of Carlos' sound. I love that one too. The two guitarists are on fire but I also dearly love the organ playing (Larry Young) which just swirls all round the music beautifully; and the two acoustic track provide perfect contrast. I did have the first record by the second Mahavishnu - seem to recall lots of orchestra - but could never get on with it. Played 'Heart of Things' again last night; enjoyed it more than I remember but was still left wondering where the guitar was! Another favourite with a rare appearance as a sideman: Edited March 10, 2013 by A Lark Ascending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Oh, I like Roy Clark just fine. And McLaughlin even more. But as with McLaughlin here, I do remember Clark as being one of those guys who would from time to time "flex their versatility" by playing something not expected of them - and as cases, play their own "language" over a "jazz setting" to make it look like they could play "anything". Which, in a way, is exactly the point, and yeah, I suppose there is a point there. But so is the point that neither were really "jazz players" in the literal/linear sense nearly as much as they were just damn good players, period, and in McLaughlin's case, quite an innovative one who impacted a large segment of players and listeners who would at best "overlap" with "real jazz". That mattered to me a whole helluva lot more then than it does now, but I still prefer an awareness of the perception of the distinction than a denial of it, just because. But - hearing him play "Cherokee" while nonstop seeing Russ Tompkins (who I've sense heard was probably the exact opposite of a personality than his appearance would suggest..the perfect cover, perhaps!) in the the background really doesn't too anything for (or to) me, other than yet again show what an excellent musician John McLaughlin is, which I coulda told you anyway! Now if somebody can find a clip of the Midnight Special segment where Glen Campell quite possibly cut George Benson (or so it seemed when I was away from the set's picture) , then we'll have something! I really don't want to see that Glen Campbell clip. The Rhinestone Cowboy and the Broadway Shuffler. Please let it be that it was on a MS that's been lost to posterity. I 'do' however, have 'a memory' of seeing Roy Clark on an episode of Carson (I think), where he plays his stuff and then sheepishly apologises for being 'a little rusty' - because he's just been on holidays. He had one of his funny suits on if I remember correctly I really like the famous 'Rene's Theme' duet, between Coryell and McLaughlin. Apparently there was some 'editing' involved in the recording, but it's a classic. Edited March 10, 2013 by freelancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Dimeola really cannot play jazz, at all. His lines bear no resemblance to the tradition, and he also has one of the most egotistical and insecure musicians I've ever heard. He got into the guitar synth thing feeling supposedly jealous of Metheny, and asked Dan Gottlieb on the "Soaring Through a Dream" album to emulate the Metheny cymbal groove. Frank Gambale had way more jazz chops to spare, regardless of what people feel about his playing, and it makes the guitar playing on "The Mothership Returns" more enjoyable. I spoke to a friend today who mentioned lot's of Metal musicians like Di Meola, and cite him as an influence. I haven't listened to him much at all, ever really, I did assume though, that because he had played with Corea - and was associated with Fusion - that he must also be a well versed (if not totally natural), straight ahead player. Interesting to hear a consensus that he's not. I know what you mean about Gambale, I don't enjoy his playing much at all, but he's a monster of technical knowledge and skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarThrower Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Nobody who's listened to Di Meola would think he's a straight ahead jazz player. He's always been more into modal playing than jazz chord changes. That said, I enjoy his sound and unique vibrato, as opposed to Gambale. Gambale's solos do nothing for me. He plays a zillion miles per hour with no space or sense of phrasing. At least that's the way he plays with Corea. I enjoyed his playing much more with Steve Smith's Vital Information. They had some old school blues/jazz organ sound on their 90s albums, and Gambales playing is a little more laid back and better paced. I can't agree that McLaughlin is not a jazz player. 1969's Extrapolation is some of the finest British jazz of the era, and that's his first record. So he was playing jazz from the get-go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Oh, I like Roy Clark just fine. And McLaughlin even more. But as with McLaughlin here, I do remember Clark as being one of those guys who would from time to time "flex their versatility" by playing something not expected of them - and as cases, play their own "language" over a "jazz setting" to make it look like they could play "anything". Which, in a way, is exactly the point, and yeah, I suppose there is a point there. But so is the point that neither were really "jazz players" in the literal/linear sense nearly as much as they were just damn good players, period, and in McLaughlin's case, quite an innovative one who impacted a large segment of players and listeners who would at best "overlap" with "real jazz". That mattered to me a whole helluva lot more then than it does now, but I still prefer an awareness of the perception of the distinction than a denial of it, just because. But - hearing him play "Cherokee" while nonstop seeing Russ Tompkins (who I've sense heard was probably the exact opposite of a personality than his appearance would suggest..the perfect cover, perhaps!) in the the background really doesn't too anything for (or to) me, other than yet again show what an excellent musician John McLaughlin is, which I coulda told you anyway! Now if somebody can find a clip of the Midnight Special segment where Glen Campell quite possibly cut George Benson (or so it seemed when I was away from the set's picture) , then we'll have something!It's Ross Tompkins, and hey, I just thought the McLaughlin segment was unexpected fun when it popped up on my TV screen back in 1985. It's not like I thought he was the Second Coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Now if somebody can find a clip of the Midnight Special segment where Glen Campell quite possibly cut George Benson (or so it seemed when I was away from the set's picture) , then we'll have something! I really don't want to see that Glen Campbell clip. The Rhinestone Cowboy and the Broadway Shuffler. Please let it be that it was on a MS that's been lost to posterity. Not that, but did find this...more "they can play anything" kind of TV schtick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vOL_UQw6o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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