Blindfold Test

[danasgoodstuff]

In the Oct 2013 issue of Downbeat the redoubtable Branford Marsalis says regarding David 'Fathead' Newman "he's not a jazz musician". WTF?! I mean, even if you twist your definition so this comes out true, it's still bullshit, maybe more so...so what say you?

http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2013/DB201310/single_page_view/178.html

Edited September 5, 2013 by danasgoodstuff

[colinmce]

I once read and Amazon review where the writer said Ken Vandermark was not a jazz musician, but an R&B player. Bizarrely, I see where this person is coming from-- the point of delivery, playing with a solid implicit beat rather than the flow of swing. Anyways, I'm thinking this is the same principle at work and I disagree in both cases.

[AllenLowe]

geez, he's sounding more and more like Wynton. Stupid stuff.

[danasgoodstuff]

In the same issue some whiner complains about Frisell winning the Critics Poll when he's 'not a jazz guitarist but a C&W and wedding band player' or some such twaddle.

[JSngry]

Has Branford had a slight stroke or some other medical occurrence that might cause cognitive dysfunction at random varying intervals?

Those of you who know him (and who would care about such things,), please have him get this checked out at a mutually convenient time and place.

Me, all I can do is go all Danny Thomas at that stoopidshit.

[JSngry]

Upon further review, fuck it. Them Marsillyes can have "jazz", or what's left of it. What they don't know won't hurt anybody that don't deserve to be hurt anyway.

[Dan Gould]

Not to defend the indefensible but I have to wonder if its the track that was used that is triggering Branford's dumbass comment. I mean, I know that he's making a blanket statement that Fathead isn't a jazz musician but I have to wonder the response if he had been played a track from the Lee Morgan-Fathead Blue Note session, or just about anything from his Highnote output.

Maybe it would have been 'that's Fathead? I didn't think he had any jazz chops." Which is an equally ignorant statement but perhaps not as egregious as 'not a jazz musician."

[kh1958]

Whatever you call him, he's way better than Branford.

[Steve Reynolds]

Here is the kicker that when he is speaking of the John Surman SOS recording of 1977:

"Yes, it's that anti-establishment movement, which I find amusing because none of the players could play establishment music"

first off, asshat - how broad a brush are you painting with that so-called 'anti-establihment movement'?

the brits only?

Does this include the AACM and BAG?

let's say it's just the British or even including other practitioners of what some refer to as european free improvisation musicians - and at that time it would refer to the first generation musicians of that movement.

then that would include musicians such as John Stevens, Kenny Wheeler, Dave Holland, Derek Bailey, Tevor Watts, Harry Beckett and Evan Parker - and if we stretch just a little bit to the continent, it would then include Han Bennink, Alexander von Schlippenbach, Manfred Schoof, Misha Mengelberg, and many more.

whether some of these guys could play 'establishment material' is known or unknown - but there are quite a few of them who are very well versed in many idioms of jazz or otherwise - but the laughable aspect of Branford's comments is that he cannot hold a candle to any of the above musicians. These guys invented and re-invented jazz and free improvisation on levels that he could only think about - which he obviously hasn't as he hasn't a fucking clue about free improvisation or the immense talents and legacies of these so-called anti-establishment musicians.

It's on the verge of being bigoted if who he is refering to are the europeans and it certainly comes across that way.

I really wish they would have spun an SME record for him like they did with the great Evan Parker recording from 1999 with John Edwards and Mark Sanders recently where he didn't have a fucking clue at what they were doing.

blood and guts, baby

Edited September 6, 2013 by Steve Reynolds