Death of the iPod (Everyone's buying vinyl)

[A Lark Ascending]

I always feel alienated when Apple talks in terms of buying "songs". That has never been what we do, has it? Maybe those of us old enough to have bought 45's or even 78's, but for the most part, we don't shop for "songs", we shop for albums.

Yes, irritates me too. If you have a faulty download they refund you the 'song'. The idea that the faulty 'song' makes the whole album a waste of space seems beyond their comprehension.

I too turn all the automatic features off. I can organise it myself on iTunes. And, I have to say, iTunes is excellent for that (except I'd dearly like a way to load a bunch of song titles into an album without having to do each one individually. Can't be that hard to set up - already separated in Excel, should be a one click situation).

[Jim R]

I'd dearly like a way to load a bunch of song titles into an album without having to do each one individually.

Bev, are you transferring a lot of music that isn't in "complete album" or "complete CD" form? I rarely have to enter song titles, as everything is automatcally tagged via CDDB when I rip a CD, so I'm wondering what's different for you.

[A Lark Ascending]

I'd dearly like a way to load a bunch of song titles into an album without having to do each one individually.

Bev, are you transferring a lot of music that isn't in "complete album" or "complete CD" form? I rarely have to enter song titles, as everything is automatcally tagged via CDDB when I rip a CD, so I'm wondering what's different for you.

Sometimes it can't trace the album - normally if I'm transferring something I've recorded from vinyl.

Also, in 'Various Artists' compilations I like the name of the performer next to the title in the track title box so I can label the artist as 'Various' or 'Various Blues'. That way I don't get zillions of artists when I look at the iPod. It's relatively easy to find a source with the title/artist together. But I've not found a way to mass input.

Of course in most cases it all happens automatically.

Edited September 21, 2014 by A Lark Ascending

[Jim R]

Thanks Bev, I suspected that those were the issues, but I was under the impression that we had reached a point where even most of the more obscure LP's had been databased as a result of people like us digitizing them. Or maybe your "obscure" is different from my "obscure".

I think there is probably a more efficient way of solving your issue with sorting and finding what you want on your iPod, but I have a feeling that since you've already instituted a system of your own, it might be more work than it's worth to attempt a change. I do have zillions of artists on my 150 gb classics, and scrolling is tedious, but by first going to "genre", this cuts down on the amount of scrolling when looking for a particular artist. But you probably knew that. The "search" function is also pretty efficient and easy to use.

[A Lark Ascending]

Thanks Bev, I suspected that those were the issues, but I was under the impression that we had reached a point where even most of the more obscure LP's had been databased as a result of people like us digitizing them. Or maybe your "obscure" is different from my "obscure".

I think there is probably a more efficient way of solving your issue with sorting and finding what you want on your iPod, but I have a feeling that since you've already instituted a system of your own, it might be more work than it's worth to attempt a change. I do have zillions of artists on my 150 gb classics, and scrolling is tedious, but by first going to "genre", this cuts down on the amount of scrolling when looking for a particular artist. But you probably knew that. The "search" function is also pretty efficient and easy to use.

There's a fair bit of British folk music that has never got to CD - one label notoriously so, that has locked up some major albums due to the awkwardness of the chap with the rights (recently deceased). So if it has never been digitalised it's probably not there on the software that spots albums. Quite a bit of British jazz too.

Yes, I think there is a way of doing it but, as you say, I've already established an approach that works. I essentially work by 'Genre' (make my own up) - within that I find 'Artist' (which is where I get the zillion names on compilations). Where I've quite a lot of music I amend the artist name e.g. Schubert (Piano), Schubert (Orchestral) etc. I've also taken to putting the date of the album first "(1959) Kind of Blue" so it all falls chronologically - helps me work through things with some logic.

Despite my disappointment at the abandonment of the iPod Classic by Apple I have to say I love the control you can have over the music if you ignore the automatic functions in iTunes. It's a brilliant system that ties in superbly with the Classic. It's not broke - a pity it's still being swept aside.

Edited September 21, 2014 by A Lark Ascending

[Neal Pomea]

I always feel alienated when Apple talks in terms of buying "songs". That has never been what we do, has it? Maybe those of us old enough to have bought 45's or even 78's, but for the most part, we don't shop for "songs", we shop for albums. Between that and things such as software that allows us to let a "genius" select what we're going to listen to next, I know I'm not in Kansas anymore. I prefer to stay in Kansas.

And when you realize a single used to be two songs, not one, to me it seems cheap beyond belief!

[Scott Dolan]

I already understood when MG explained it earlier.

But, the fact that the people you describe are such a niche market explains the exact reason Apple discontinued it.

I have to agree with Impossible on this one.

Agree with him all you want, but it's really this simple:

"According to an earnings report earlier this year, Apple's iPod Classic sales in the final quarter of 2013 had dropped 52 per cent year-on-year. Apple also lost 55 per cent in revenue on all models of the music player, compared to the previous year, and the iPod makes up less than 2 per cent of the company's overall income."

The End

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2750990/RIP-iPod-Apple-silently-kills-Classic-digital-music-player-removing-online-store.html

As the market goes, so goes the product. It's not some nefarious scheme by Apple. It's basic economics.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[Daniel A]

It's basic economics.

They are not talking about economics, but about personal preferences. No need to argue about that. I would have agreed too, except that I'm not an Apple guy and have never owned an "i"-product.

[David Ayers]

I'm interested to hear folks get on with itunes. I use it and understand it but find it laborious.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm interested to hear folks get on with itunes. I use it and understand it but find it laborious.

I think it's crap - I only use it to rip CDs and to sync my ipod. And even for that, amazingly, iTunes doesn't behave the same way as the ipod, which for two things supposed to work together, is incredibly rough.

EG - iTunes recognises that the genre 'Jazz' = (perfectly) the genre 'JAZZ'. And that 'Willis Jackson' = 'WILLIS JACKSON'. But to the ipod, they're not the same. So, unless you're fetishistically consistent in labelling genres and artists, scrolling down the genres on your ipod, you get hundreds of Jazz/JAZZ genres, as it changes each time, and ditto artists. And this is a total pain in the arse if you're looking for R&B or Township Jive.

I used to be able to use iTunes to check my labelling, but can't now because I have v11 of iTunes, because I had to reload my PC a few months ago and couldn't get v10. So this further embuggerance factor means that, when I look at genres in iTunes, it doesn't allow me to look at the albums by artist but only alphabetically. But the ipod does. Or it would if I don't make a mistake in labelling Achieving consistency is bloody difficult.

Of course, they both agree in what alphabetical order isn't - it isn't what everyone in the world thinks it is, so 22 Band comes after Zacks Nkosi, not before Abdoulaye Diabate. I haven't YET managed to avoid the panic of thinking that my 22 Band albums have disappeared.

Actually, I haven't a problem with iTunes ripping CDs. About a quarter of my CD collection is on hard drive now, which isn't too bad. K7s take a lot longer; they can't be done in one step, as I have to record them onto a CD first, then read it into the PC. And I have to sit over them, to mark the end of each track. (But that's hardly iTunes fault, of course.)

MG

[RogerF]

"As the market goes, so goes the product. It's not some nefarious scheme by Apple. It's basic economics."

Yes, exactly, this is the whole nub of the problem. It's ok having iPods or whatever but when (not if) the system / company goes under then you've basically lost your collection. That is of course leaving aside the whole Cloud thing - like for instance yes it's true when you buy certain albums on Amazon you get a free download too, but this only works if the Cloud is accessible (ie you've got a signal), same with iCloud music purchases. I bitterly regret ditching some (not all, thankfully) of my vinyl collection in favour of the new technology known as the musicassette (what a joke!). I now buy vinyl secondhand at fairs because I know that the only medium which will still be playable (assuming the resurgence of the medium continues to generate turntables) in 100 years time will be vinyl. There's also the thorny question of (for example) Spotify and hiring your collection. This form of monetising music is becoming more prevalent in other areas such as Microsoft's annual subscription to its "Office 365" suite.

I wish that weren't the case, but even CD players are seemingly archaic now and in the throes of being phased out (which is a bit of a shame as I have most of my collection on that medium - oh and the aforesaid iPod). Even if they do away with turntables altogether at least I can look at the vinyl, admire the artwork, read the sleeve notes and sigh nostalgically, something you can't do with a dead iPod.

[Scott Dolan]

It's basic economics.

They are not talking about economics, but about personal preferences. No need to argue about that. I would have agreed too, except that I'm not an Apple guy and have never owned an "i"-product.

"Recurring charges. Constant revenue."

Unless I took the wrong class in school, that is indeed economics.

I'm interested to hear folks get on with itunes. I use it and understand it but find it laborious.

Can only echo what MG posted. It is one of the clunkier pieces of software I've ever used. And it seemingly gets worse with every new release and update. Very frustrating.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It's basic economics.

They are not talking about economics, but about personal preferences. No need to argue about that. I would have agreed too, except that I'm not an Apple guy and have never owned an "i"-product.

"Recurring charges. Constant revenue."

Unless I took the wrong class in school, that is indeed economics.

I'm interested to hear folks get on with itunes. I use it and understand it but find it laborious.

Can only echo what MG posted. It is one of the clunkier pieces of software I've ever used. And it seemingly gets worse with every new release and update. Very frustrating.

This too is basic economics. Do things because you can, not because there is a need for them. In 'The new industrial state', John Kenneth Galbraith discussed the creation of a fictional pop-up toaster which would etch in darker carbon a message (selected from a range at the time of purchase) from politicians, priests or advertisers and noted the ways such items could be made successful by firms in control of their markets.

MG

[Scott Dolan]

Depending on when that book was published, he was either prescient or late to the party.

http://nfltoaster.com

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hah!

Prescient! He wrote the book in 1967.

MG

[uli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6hx_izPMI

[Scott Dolan]

Hah!

Prescient! He wrote the book in 1967.

MG

How Philip K. Dickian of him!

Seriously, that's a pretty cool prediction. One that can be viewed with 20/20 hindsight as "DUH!", but that's the beauty of 20/20 hindsight, right?

"As the market goes, so goes the product. It's not some nefarious scheme by Apple. It's basic economics."

Yes, exactly, this is the whole nub of the problem. It's ok having iPods or whatever but when (not if) the system / company goes under then you've basically lost your collection. That is of course leaving aside the whole Cloud thing - like for instance yes it's true when you buy certain albums on Amazon you get a free download too, but this only works if the Cloud is accessible (ie you've got a signal), same with iCloud music purchases.

One question. One thought.

Question: If a company goes under, how have you lost your music collection? In the digital format we have the option to build so much redundancy into it, it's actually absurd. You can have a physical copy, a digital copy on your computer, a copy of that on an external hard drive, AND a copy of that in the Cloud! Imagine creating a comparable redundancy in the analog age!

Thought: If you cannot "access the Cloud" for whatever reason, one would have to assume you aren't at home. Right? Because if you were, you'd simply slap on your record/CD/digital file via your computer. But, if you're away from home and can't access it, well, that's just like being away from home in the analog age. Is it not?

A thousand pardons, brother. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I dug what you posted. I'm still just having a hard time seeing the downside.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[jcam_44]

But, if you're away from home and can't access it, well, that's just like being away from home in the analog age. Is it not?

That's assuming the expectations of the cloud and analog are the same which they are not.

[Scott Dolan]

Huh?

[Big Beat Steve]

Easy.

In the analog age, if your home (and record collection) was in place A and you were in place B (away from home), you had no acces to your records (unless the period of the analog ge you are thinking of is the one where walkmen already existed ). Expected, to be reckoned with, accepted.

Now in the digital age they lure you with the promise of unlimited access to whatever you have stored (particularly all your "favorites") wherever you go, are, drive, eat, work, sleep, etc. Starting with doing your googling, ebaying, etc. on the go wherever you happen to be, with the specific premise that there just is NO limit to access regardless of where you are. Unlimited flexibility at any moment.

Now if THAT don't work (even if it only cuts out unpredictably) - well, sh.t ... the KEY feature of all this progress goes out the window. Some fine progress ... ;)

Edited September 24, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

But it does work. That isn't up for debate.

If you temporarily cannot access the Cloud, for whatever reason, it's just that: temporary. Your music is still there, and the second you're back online you'll have access to it.

In the analog age you weren't going to have access to it until you got back home. That's an enormous difference. So yes, that is indeed progress. And lots of it.

[Big Beat Steve]

I do think that what jcam_44 hinted at was that the expectations of the cloud are UNCONDITIONAL access at ANY time (as promised by the sales blurb) and not some intermittent access at the whim of outside influences.

That would be a somewhat threadbare form of progress.

My, how "old school" must I be that I can healthily survive a 2-week holiday without (except for a scant handful of CDs in the car) any access to all my favorite platters!

Edited September 24, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

Sorry, Steve. That's just a foolish argument.

Hi speed internet is, or used to be, advertised as "always on". So when it rarely goes down, you're going to point to point to it and call it threadbare progress?

No. You're going to accept that shit happens.

If your car breaks down you're not going back to the dealer complaining that automobiles are threadbare progress over horseback.

Your music that is in the cloud is always there and always accessible where you have Internet. Which, in this world these days is pretty much everywhere, and anytime.

[Big Beat Steve]

Sure, shit happens.

But if you knew how many areas there are (in areas universally considered to be part of the core of industrialized countries) where the outcry of "no commo" (including lack of REAL high-speed internet) becomes valid again (particularly if you are moving about), then you might moderate your adulation of the cloud just a wee bit, maybe, just maybe ...

If my car breaks down (rather, should break down) then I eventually make a careful assessment of whether the tradeoff betwen the price paid (= level of service expected) and the number of breakdowns still works out OK for me. If it breaks down too often then I might actually end up feeling that I might not be worse off riding a horse-drawn cart or a bike. Particularly since I would not have expected the same level of service from a cart or a bike in the first place.

Which, again, seems to be what has been hinted at in that other post that you "huh"ed, IMO.

Nothing more, nothing less.

BTW, ever heard of intentional exaggerations in exchanges of "arguments" (rather, points of view) like this?

In short, take it easy.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

I'm not taking it harshly. I just find instant access, a majority of the time more than not, being looked at as little-to-no progress as laughable.

And not only have I travelled quite a bit (just got back from Phoenix this past weekend), but I also live in small town Midwest and service is spotty all throughout this region. Drive 20 minutes down the road and you might find yourself in a dead zone. Drive another 10 and you'll likely have service. And along the way you'll pass many gas stations and fast food restaurants that offer free Wi-Fi. And most hotels 2 stars and up offer free high speed.

The Internet may not be ubiquitous, but it's never hard to find. At least here in the States.