Death of the iPod (Everyone's buying vinyl)

[Scott Dolan]

Depending on when that book was published, he was either prescient or late to the party.

http://nfltoaster.com

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hah!

Prescient! He wrote the book in 1967.

MG

[uli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6hx_izPMI

[BFrank]

I've given up on trying to correct Genres. It's a losing battle.

I'll stick with artist names and album titles.

[Scott Dolan]

Hah!

Prescient! He wrote the book in 1967.

MG

How Philip K. Dickian of him!

Seriously, that's a pretty cool prediction. One that can be viewed with 20/20 hindsight as "DUH!", but that's the beauty of 20/20 hindsight, right?

"As the market goes, so goes the product. It's not some nefarious scheme by Apple. It's basic economics."

Yes, exactly, this is the whole nub of the problem. It's ok having iPods or whatever but when (not if) the system / company goes under then you've basically lost your collection. That is of course leaving aside the whole Cloud thing - like for instance yes it's true when you buy certain albums on Amazon you get a free download too, but this only works if the Cloud is accessible (ie you've got a signal), same with iCloud music purchases.

One question. One thought.

Question: If a company goes under, how have you lost your music collection? In the digital format we have the option to build so much redundancy into it, it's actually absurd. You can have a physical copy, a digital copy on your computer, a copy of that on an external hard drive, AND a copy of that in the Cloud! Imagine creating a comparable redundancy in the analog age!

Thought: If you cannot "access the Cloud" for whatever reason, one would have to assume you aren't at home. Right? Because if you were, you'd simply slap on your record/CD/digital file via your computer. But, if you're away from home and can't access it, well, that's just like being away from home in the analog age. Is it not?

A thousand pardons, brother. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I dug what you posted. I'm still just having a hard time seeing the downside.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[jcam_44]

But, if you're away from home and can't access it, well, that's just like being away from home in the analog age. Is it not?

That's assuming the expectations of the cloud and analog are the same which they are not.

[Scott Dolan]

Huh?

[Big Beat Steve]

Easy.

In the analog age, if your home (and record collection) was in place A and you were in place B (away from home), you had no acces to your records (unless the period of the analog ge you are thinking of is the one where walkmen already existed ). Expected, to be reckoned with, accepted.

Now in the digital age they lure you with the promise of unlimited access to whatever you have stored (particularly all your "favorites") wherever you go, are, drive, eat, work, sleep, etc. Starting with doing your googling, ebaying, etc. on the go wherever you happen to be, with the specific premise that there just is NO limit to access regardless of where you are. Unlimited flexibility at any moment.

Now if THAT don't work (even if it only cuts out unpredictably) - well, sh.t ... the KEY feature of all this progress goes out the window. Some fine progress ... ;)

Edited September 24, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

But it does work. That isn't up for debate.

If you temporarily cannot access the Cloud, for whatever reason, it's just that: temporary. Your music is still there, and the second you're back online you'll have access to it.

In the analog age you weren't going to have access to it until you got back home. That's an enormous difference. So yes, that is indeed progress. And lots of it.

[Big Beat Steve]

I do think that what jcam_44 hinted at was that the expectations of the cloud are UNCONDITIONAL access at ANY time (as promised by the sales blurb) and not some intermittent access at the whim of outside influences.

That would be a somewhat threadbare form of progress.

My, how "old school" must I be that I can healthily survive a 2-week holiday without (except for a scant handful of CDs in the car) any access to all my favorite platters!

Edited September 24, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

Sorry, Steve. That's just a foolish argument.

Hi speed internet is, or used to be, advertised as "always on". So when it rarely goes down, you're going to point to point to it and call it threadbare progress?

No. You're going to accept that shit happens.

If your car breaks down you're not going back to the dealer complaining that automobiles are threadbare progress over horseback.

Your music that is in the cloud is always there and always accessible where you have Internet. Which, in this world these days is pretty much everywhere, and anytime.

[Big Beat Steve]

Sure, shit happens.

But if you knew how many areas there are (in areas universally considered to be part of the core of industrialized countries) where the outcry of "no commo" (including lack of REAL high-speed internet) becomes valid again (particularly if you are moving about), then you might moderate your adulation of the cloud just a wee bit, maybe, just maybe ...

If my car breaks down (rather, should break down) then I eventually make a careful assessment of whether the tradeoff betwen the price paid (= level of service expected) and the number of breakdowns still works out OK for me. If it breaks down too often then I might actually end up feeling that I might not be worse off riding a horse-drawn cart or a bike. Particularly since I would not have expected the same level of service from a cart or a bike in the first place.

Which, again, seems to be what has been hinted at in that other post that you "huh"ed, IMO.

Nothing more, nothing less.

BTW, ever heard of intentional exaggerations in exchanges of "arguments" (rather, points of view) like this?

In short, take it easy.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

I'm not taking it harshly. I just find instant access, a majority of the time more than not, being looked at as little-to-no progress as laughable.

And not only have I travelled quite a bit (just got back from Phoenix this past weekend), but I also live in small town Midwest and service is spotty all throughout this region. Drive 20 minutes down the road and you might find yourself in a dead zone. Drive another 10 and you'll likely have service. And along the way you'll pass many gas stations and fast food restaurants that offer free Wi-Fi. And most hotels 2 stars and up offer free high speed.

The Internet may not be ubiquitous, but it's never hard to find. At least here in the States.

[John L]

Easy.

In the analog age, if your home (and record collection) was in place A and you were in place B (away from home), you had no acces to your records (unless the period of the analog ge you are thinking of is the one where walkmen already existed ). Expected, to be reckoned with, accepted.

Now in the digital age they lure you with the promise of unlimited access to whatever you have stored (particularly all your "favorites") wherever you go, are, drive, eat, work, sleep, etc. Starting with doing your googling, ebaying, etc. on the go wherever you happen to be, with the specific premise that there just is NO limit to access regardless of where you are. Unlimited flexibility at any moment.

Now if THAT don't work (even if it only cuts out unpredictably) - well, sh.t ... the KEY feature of all this progress goes out the window. Some fine progress ... ;)

Well, if place B is in Nigeria, where I spend most of my time, and the internet signal at home, when it exists, is almost never strong enough to stream anything, then you might be damn happy to have a handful of iPod classics lying around, which I do.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Easy.

In the analog age, if your home (and record collection) was in place A and you were in place B (away from home), you had no acces to your records (unless the period of the analog ge you are thinking of is the one where walkmen already existed ). Expected, to be reckoned with, accepted.

Now in the digital age they lure you with the promise of unlimited access to whatever you have stored (particularly all your "favorites") wherever you go, are, drive, eat, work, sleep, etc. Starting with doing your googling, ebaying, etc. on the go wherever you happen to be, with the specific premise that there just is NO limit to access regardless of where you are. Unlimited flexibility at any moment.

Now if THAT don't work (even if it only cuts out unpredictably) - well, sh.t ... the KEY feature of all this progress goes out the window. Some fine progress ... ;)

Well, if place B is in Nigeria, where I spend most of my time, and the internet signal at home, when it exists, is almost never strong enough to stream anything, then you might be damn happy to have a handful of iPod classics lying around, which I do.

I don't doubt that most people out there are still using K7s in their players. Well off people may be using CDs. Rich people may have ipods, but probably won't soon.

MG

[Dave Garrett]

I'm not taking it harshly. I just find instant access, a majority of the time more than not, being looked at as little-to-no progress as laughable.

And not only have I travelled quite a bit (just got back from Phoenix this past weekend), but I also live in small town Midwest and service is spotty all throughout this region. Drive 20 minutes down the road and you might find yourself in a dead zone. Drive another 10 and you'll likely have service. And along the way you'll pass many gas stations and fast food restaurants that offer free Wi-Fi. And most hotels 2 stars and up offer free high speed.

The Internet may not be ubiquitous, but it's never hard to find. At least here in the States.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/29/internet-heat-map/

[RogerF]

"As the market goes, so goes the product. It's not some nefarious scheme by Apple. It's basic economics."

Yes, exactly, this is the whole nub of the problem. It's ok having iPods or whatever but when (not if) the system / company goes under then you've basically lost your collection. That is of course leaving aside the whole Cloud thing - like for instance yes it's true when you buy certain albums on Amazon you get a free download too, but this only works if the Cloud is accessible (ie you've got a signal), same with iCloud music purchases.

One question. One thought.

Question: If a company goes under, how have you lost your music collection? In the digital format we have the option to build so much redundancy into it, it's actually absurd. You can have a physical copy, a digital copy on your computer, a copy of that on an external hard drive, AND a copy of that in the Cloud! Imagine creating a comparable redundancy in the analog age!

Thought: If you cannot "access the Cloud" for whatever reason, one would have to assume you aren't at home. Right? Because if you were, you'd simply slap on your record/CD/digital file via your computer. But, if you're away from home and can't access it, well, that's just like being away from home in the analog age. Is it not?

A thousand pardons, brother. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I dug what you posted. I'm still just having a hard time seeing the downside.

I'm not really looking a debate about this because whether I'm right or wrong doesn't change my luddite opinion that I'm essentially nervous about the longevity of digital media in general (including the stuff on my Kindle). Whilst it's there, it's there and it's very, very convenient.

Edited September 26, 2014 by RogerF

[Scott Dolan]

There's simply too much redundancy in place for me to worry.

[BFrank]

There's simply too much redundancy in place for me to worry.

Now you're just being redundant.

[Scott Dolan]

No, I'm not.

I am not.

Please ignore the fact that I work for the redundantly redundant department.

[BFrank]

No, I'm not.

I am not.

Please ignore the fact that I work for the redundantly redundant department.

You work for the Department of Redundancy Department?

Nicely, nice!

[mjzee]

FWIW, yesterday's Wall St Journal had a short conversation with Tim Cook which included the following:

AUDIENCE: As someone who’s accumulated just under 40,000 music tracks in his library I have many friends, relatives, salivating for their 160 iPod Classic only to find out that you discontinued manufacturing it two months ago. Why?

MR. COOK: Because we couldn’t get the parts anymore.

AUDIENCE: Not even in China?

MR. COOK: Not even anywhere on Earth.

[Eric]

FWIW, yesterday's Wall St Journal had a short conversation with Tim Cook which included the following:

AUDIENCE: As someone who’s accumulated just under 40,000 music tracks in his library I have many friends, relatives, salivating for their 160 iPod Classic only to find out that you discontinued manufacturing it two months ago. Why?

MR. COOK: Because we couldn’t get the parts anymore.

AUDIENCE: Not even in China?

MR. COOK: Not even anywhere on Earth.

He had a bunch of good answers to a variety of questions - but this was not one of them.

[Scott Dolan]

Agreed.

The answer doesn't even make sense. They can get anyone to manufacture parts for it? Um...yeah.

Why not just be honest and say sales were way down, and they chose to refocus on better selling items?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Agreed.

The answer doesn't even make sense. They can get anyone to manufacture parts for it? Um...yeah.

Why not just be honest and say sales were way down, and they chose to refocus on better selling items?

A firm like that CAN get anyone to make bits, but maybe can't get anyone to make bits at a price that's consonant with the price they sell the ipods at. And the equation would likely be worse if sales were declining.

MG