Papa Jo Jones question

[Mark Stryker]

Anybody know who first coined the phrase "the man who played like the wind" as a description for Jo Jones? I can't recall seeing it ever attributed and can't put my finger on a source.

[jazzbo]

This page: https://www.moderndrummer.com/site/2011/12/rifftide-papa-jo-jones/#.U4DTPl5H1FI

seems to infer that the phrase was coined by Whitney Balliett:

Maybe the late Whitney Balliett, deemed “the poet laureate of jazz,” said it best when he wrote that Jo Jones was “the man who played like the wind.” If Gene Krupa made the drums a solo instrument, Jo Jones made the drums a musical instrument.

Edited May 24, 2014 by jazzbo

[Don Brown]

Actually, Lon, I think it was Don Lamond who made that comment back in the 1940s.

[AllenLowe]

I called him "the lunatic who threatened people with a knife."

[jazzbo]

Actually, Lon, I think it was Don Lamond who made that comment back in the 1940s.

I was just reporting what was on that page. I have no idea if Don Lamond said that or not.

[BeBop]

I called him "the lunatic who threatened people with a knife."

Yeah, I just finished his (auto)biography.

[Lazaro Vega]

Wasn't it with a cymbal sound like "the wind passing through the fir trees" or something like that?

Edited May 28, 2014 by Lazaro Vega

[JSngry]

This cover story is very much worth tracking down and reading. In it, Jones says something like "who has seen the wind? neither you nor I", which I know is not original to him, but still, he might have been crazy/nuts/whatever, but he seems to have really felt what his music was in a essential way that I could see making a man (or woman) crazy in that way when it became smallerized than it really was just to get people gigs fames and fortunes.

Just read the article and listen to the voice therein. Profound stuff, at least for me.

[Mark Stryker]

Thanks for the responses. Still would like to know where the line originated. Will look for the Modern Drummer piece and need to track down autobio too. All of this came up in context of a piece I'm revising about Louis Hayes for my book. Papa Joe took Louis under his week when he arrived in NY as a kid -- and they'd make the scene. Louis would put on a coat and tie -- at Joe's insistence -- and they'd hit the clubs, Joe telling stories about the old days and schooling Louis about jazz history and culture.

[Don Brown]

Check page 305 of Nat Hentoff and Nat Shapiro's Hear Me Talkin' to You, Mark. It was Don Lamond who said Jo Jones played like the wind.

[Ted O'Reilly]

...and here's another Papa Jo Jones question: when did people start referring to him as "Papa"? I don't think I ever heard that under possibly the 1980s. And maybe it was the name of a recording...

[jazztrain]

Apparently it goes back long before the 1980s. I've found a reference to him as "Papa" as early as December 1960.

See the December 1960 issue of HiFi/Stereo Review. It has a review of his album "Vamp 'Til Ready" (Everest PBPR 5099) by "R.J.G" (presumably Ralph J. Gleason).

It's on page 90 here (may take a long time to load): http://vintagevacuumaudio.com/vintage-magazines/hifi/1960-12-hifi-stereo-review.pdf

...and here's another Papa Jo Jones question: when did people start referring to him as "Papa"? I don't think I ever heard that under possibly the 1980s. And maybe it was the name of a recording...

[Ted O'Reilly]

Thanks.... I guess it's much earlier than I recall. But in my mind, he's still singular, so there's no need to distinguish him from any other Jo Jones. (Even the distinguished "Philly" Joe Jones.

Apparently it goes back long before the 1980s. I've found a reference to him as "Papa" as early as December 1960.

See the December 1960 issue of HiFi/Stereo Review. It has a review of his album "Vamp 'Til Ready" (Everest PBPR 5099) by "R.J.G" (presumably Ralph J. Gleason).

It's on page 90 here (may take a long time to load): http://vintagevacuumaudio.com/vintage-magazines/hifi/1960-12-hifi-stereo-review.pdf

...and here's another Papa Jo Jones question: when did people start referring to him as "Papa"? I don't think I ever heard that under possibly the 1980s. And maybe it was the name of a recording...

[jazztrain]

For what it's worth, the use of "Papa" may not have been common until somewhat later. I got curious and used a Google application to look at the relative frequency of the appearance of "Papa Joe Jones" and "Jo Jones" in books that they've scanned. There's a noticeable peak in the relative frequency of the "Papa" form around 1992.

Thanks.... I guess it's much earlier than I recall. But in my mind, he's still singular, so there's no need to distinguish him from any other Jo Jones. (Even the distinguished "Philly" Joe Jones.

Apparently it goes back long before the 1980s. I've found a reference to him as "Papa" as early as December 1960.

See the December 1960 issue of HiFi/Stereo Review. It has a review of his album "Vamp 'Til Ready" (Everest PBPR 5099) by "R.J.G" (presumably Ralph J. Gleason).

It's on page 90 here (may take a long time to load): http://vintagevacuumaudio.com/vintage-magazines/hifi/1960-12-hifi-stereo-review.pdf

...and here's another Papa Jo Jones question: when did people start referring to him as "Papa"? I don't think I ever heard that under possibly the 1980s. And maybe it was the name of a recording...

[Mark Stryker]

Thanks, Don. I'll take a look at "Hear Me Talkin' to Ya." Not everything in that book is reliable, however.

Re: "Papa" -- in Feather's first edition of the Encyclopedia of Jazz published in 1960, "Papa" is not listed as a nickname for Jones and it would have been if it was in common use at the time.

[AllenLowe]

I hate to say this, but this is likely one of those things for which Phil Schaap would be a reliable source. He really did know Jones well.