Opera

[John L]

I love opera. I even went through a phase when it was the primary music that I was listening to and attending.

[Larry Kart]

For my money, "Cosi Fan Tutti" and "The Magic Flute" are two of the greatest works there are, regardless of medium. "Figaro" and "Don Giovanni," too. As perpetually hip, wise, and, if performed well, as moving as Shakespeare.

The Ring Cycle?

Immensely powerful to be sure, but IMO not wise the way "Cosi Fan Tutti" and "The Magic Flute" are. In fact, I'd say, going a fair bit over the top, that The Ring Cycle is a dramatically enacted disease and that "Cosi Fan Tutti" and "The Magic Flute" are, as much as this is possible, cures and/or at the least very good medicine. Of course you could say that that is the point, that The Ring Cycle more or less says that the world or universe is profoundly, fatally diseased, take it from there. But I find balm in Mozart, and not, I think, evasively so.

[David Ayers]

Tutte. All women.

[crisp]

I won't let class issues put me off a work of art (and in any case, most of the opera we hear in England is imported), but I have always been impatient with it. I see it as a rough draft for the far superior operetta, which in turn was improved further into the Broadway musical, the pinnacle of musical theatre.

However, I very much like Mozart's operas, even though I'm not keen on most of Mozart's other work. And I'm drawn to Wagner for some reason -- I don't *think* that isn't a sign of Nazi tendencies (at least I hope not)...

But, yes, for me it's that leaden stuff that follows Jazz Record Requests (after the obligatory 30 minutes of chat). I usually turn Radio 3 off whenever it -- or medieval music -- comes on.

Popular enjoyment of opera arias and choruses has always been there - my dad can whistle and hum loads of them based on pure enjoyment of the tunes and powerful singing. Everything from the Three Tenors to Singing Priests constantly keeps the enjoyment of those pieces current (not to mention 'Go Compare' adverts!).

Although those Go Compare ads don't contain any opera. The original song was by George M. Cohan.

[A Lark Ascending]

Although those Go Compare ads don't contain any opera. The original song was by George M. Cohan.

I never knew that. Always assumed it was from some 19thC Italian opera or operetta.

You'll be telling me next that Kurt Weill wrote 'Just One Cornetto.'

[David Ayers]

O Sole Mio - massacred in a British TV ad some decades ago.

[A Lark Ascending]

If that was real opera the two principals would both look as if they'd been eating nothing but cornettos for ten years.

[johnlitweiler]

I probably should be ashamed of this:

I enjoy a lot of Wagner's music. Including Lohengrin, which I saw 2 years ago. Incredibly manipulative--all those dense chords and hanging leading tones, which sometimes weren't resolved, either. Also the plot was racist, about good Germans defending themselves against the attacks of barbaric Hungarians. I fear my liking for this stuff is the outward manifestation of something dark and perverse in my soul, maybe a secret longing for lots of beer.

Dialogue of the Carmelites is a rarity. Most operas have sexy or/and sensational and ridiculous plots. Poulenc composed this one about a spiritual crisis, or rather spiritual crises. Very affecting.

I don't get to the Lyric Opera very often and my heart was broken last year when I had to back out of Boris Gudonov at the last minute.

[Bigshot]

Opera is grwat on bluray. Perfect sound, the best seats in the house and first class performers. I love opera. It's the ultimate art form, incorporating elements of all the arts.

[David Ayers]

Opera is great on bluray. Perfect sound, the best seats in the house and first class performers. I love opera. It's the ultimate art form, incorporating elements of all the arts.

I love to go to the opera but I can't bear to watch it on video. I (now) rarely listen to recorded opera either and many of my opera CD sets are unopened. I prefer live music in general but with stage works (ballet too) the best seat in the house as far as I am concerned is actually in the house - and it needn't even be the best. So unlike you I have a very limited desire for opera as home entertainment.

Within the question about opera is another topic - voice. Something we never discuss on this board and so I won't start now!

[Bigshot]

It helps to have a ten foot screen.

[David Ayers]

It helps to have a ten foot screen.

Is it better than the real thing? Or is it the real thing?

Recorded music is pornography.

[Hoppy T. Frog]

It helps to have a ten foot screen.

Is it better than the real thing? Or is it the real thing?

Recorded music is pornography.

well you can't touch the performers at the opera house either. (the management has warned me so).

[StarThrower]

Listening to Prokofiev's Love For Three Oranges. Good fun!

[Teasing the Korean]

I like certain singers (Gigli, Bjorling), but have a hard time with full operas, largely because it's rare to see a production with consistently good singers.

Too many contemporary opera singers have amazingly out-of-control vibratos. They are so wide you can't tell what the target note is. When they try to sing a rapidly ascending or descending line, forget it. Then, go listen to an aria by Gigli and see how it's really done.

It boggles my mind that someone who could put that amount of work, time, discipline, and dedication to his/her craft doesn't have a good enough ear - let alone voice coach - to tell them that their vibrato sucks.

Yes, there are some great composers like Verdi and Puccini. However, until as long as the opera world continues to encourage or tolerate the current vogue of bad singing, I have no interest.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Teasing the Korean

[rostasi]

I've been a bit hesitant in answering this because it's difficult to put into words

my dislike of opera. Even tho I've written two and was asked to write a third,

I still have a problem with all of the vulgar manipulations of the voice,

the grandstanding, the social conventions...and I'm just not a fan of fictional storytelling -

especially of the linear type. It's really not that much different than insufferable

Andrew Lloyd Webber schlock to me. I'd much rather hear Dave Burrell's

version of La Boheme than Puccini's. I've had this discussion with both Cage and

Stockhausen and I really am in the Cage mindset of giving it back to the Europeans.

[A Lark Ascending]

Well, since starting this thread three months back I've been on a bit of an opera binge. Although all my initial concerns still stand, I've been reminded why I bought all those sets back in the late-80s/early 90s and have really enjoyed revisiting them.

I've also discovered the joys of DVD opera. Unlike David, this works perfectly for me. Going to a live opera is fun if you are with other people but for personal listening I much prefer watching it on TV. You can break down the longer ones over a couple of days (as with CD) and also have a cup of tea while you are watching. And there's no-one in the interval going on about how '...it is no match for Sutherland blah blah blah...'.

I also prefer following the subtitles to reading a libretto - you don't lose your place and there's no tendency to read ahead and miss the music!

Over the next year I hope to:

• Explore the Wagners I don't know - Parsifal, Dutchman, perhaps Rienzi.
  
• Explore the Richard Strauss lesser known operas - Strauss really does it for me.
  
• Explore some recent operas. I have a DVD of Birtwistle's 'The Minotaur' just arrived to challenge me! Fancy seeing the John Adams operas on screen too.
  
• Continue to mine back into those sets I've had for 25+ years and rediscover them.
  

One bug - why do record companies put out operas with no librettos? Makes no sense (apart from cost cutting). At the very least they could put them on line - Decca seem to be doing this with their reissues though you need a code based on your purchase to get access.

[king ubu]

Damn, I was typing for one and a half hour and just lost it ---- might try again, but not tonight.

In short: I hate opera (politically), I love opera (musically).

[jeffcrom]

When my first wife and I split up about 17 years ago, I dove heavily into two kinds of strong, emotional music - opera and the blues. They both spoke to me in a way they never had before. When my life got back more on keel, the appeal of opera lessened somewhat. I think think that the moment that made me think, "Okay, this is kind of silly," was when I started dating my second (and last) wife. Don Giovanni was playing in Atlanta, and I told her, "Opera is incredible, and this is my favorite opera - we've got to go see it." So we did, and I sat there thinking, "Oh, right - Mozart felt that he had to say everything at least three times before moving on."

But if don't love opera like I did, I still enjoy it. The last performance I attended was about six months ago - John Adams' A Flowering Tree, performed with simple, minimal staging. It was pretty great.

[A Lark Ascending]

Up to Mozart in this overview:

A nicely detached account that suits me perfectly. Traces the evolution of the genre, constantly aware of its absurdities and the see-sawing between gushing emotion in one generation and severe classicism in the next. Mercifully no diva/maestro idolatry (so far!). Very, very good on the need to unpick the myths that have encrusted on the music/performance traditions to try and see how it actually worked at its time of creation.

**************************

Really enjoying the opera on DVD trip I've been on recently. Trying to keep to Blu-Ray where possible. Because only so much has made it that far it's a bit like early CD days - anticipating the new releases to see if as yet unrecorded pieces appear.

Edited March 30, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[Larry Kart]

Up to Mozart in this overview:

A nicely detached account that suits me perfectly. Traces the evolution of the genre, constantly aware of its absurdities and the see-sawing between gushing emotion in one generation and severe classicism in the next. Mercifully no diva/maestro idolatry (so far!). Very, very good on the need to unpick the myths that have encrusted on the music/performance traditions to try and see how it actually worked at its time of creation.

**************************

Really enjoying the opera on DVD trip I've been on recently. Trying to keep to Blu-Ray where possible. Because only so much has made it that far it's a bit like early CD days - anticipating the new releases to see if as yet unrecorded pieces appear.

Couldn't stand this book's p.c. tendentiousness. GDP's Amazon review of the book, which is somewhat favorable:

http://www.amazon.com/A-History-Opera-Carolyn-Abbate/product-reviews/0393057216/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

explains why. The passages he/she quotes -- oy vey. Try Grout, or even better (though it of necessity doesn't talk about all one would want/need to know about opera and talks about much else beside) the late Carl Dahlhaus' brilliant "Nineteenth Century Music."

[A Lark Ascending]

Why am I not surprised?

Edited March 30, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[A Lark Ascending]

A year since I had my grumble in the opening post. In that time I've listened to a lot more opera but wouldn't change any of those statements - just got better at suspending disbelief.

The Blu-ray/DVD option has been the real thrill for me. A mixture of having the visuals and the lyrics coming up in real time, preventing you surrendering to the temptation to read ahead in the longer passages. You're also not zig-zagging between keeping up with the Czech that's being sung and then darting to get the translation in a parallel column. To say nothing of the horror following a libretto when a dozen people start singing at once, intermingling the same phrases. I usually find I'm three pages behind.

One of the great joys is that it's a bit like the late-80s with CDs. There's lots out there on Blu-Ray/DVD but still lots of gaps even in the 'core repertoire'; the less renowned/contemporary field still has huge areas to be mined. So opening the music magazines has regained a sense of anticipation - instead of just the expected different versions of things already out there in different forms, there's the hope of something you really want to see/hear for the first time being announced.

Interesting times.

[StarThrower]

Getting into a little bit of opera recently.

Prince Igor -Sofia Opera on Brilliant Classics

Boris Goudonov - Rostropovich/Erato label

Shostakovich - Lady Macbeth Of Mtsensk on EMI

Schoenberg - Moses und Aaron Boulez/Sony

Just ordered Hindemith's Mathis der Maler on EMI

[Bigshot]

Blu-Ray and big TVs have made opera something entirely new. Instead of dealing with the hassle of going to the opera house, or getting half a show by listening to CDs, I can enjoy The Ring anytime I want, or see Traviata or Rigoletto with first class productions. Opera is the ultimate art form. I remember back in the 70s and 80s watching operas on TV and being vaguely interested, but seeing them on a ten foot hidef projection screen with 5:1 sound is doggone close to seeing them live... in some ways, it's even better.

In the past year, my collection of operas on blu-ray has grown considerably. Ballet too. Lots of great performances out there to sample.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Bigshot