Oscar Pettiford or Bobby Montez?

[Teasing the Korean]

Art Blakey's The Drum Suite was released on Columbia in 1957.

Bobby Montez's Jungle Fantastique was released on Jubilee in 1958.

Blakey's album includes a track titled "Oscalypso," credited to Oscar Pettiford, who plays bass on the album.

Montez's album includes a track called "African Fantasy," credited to Montez.

The melodies are very similar.  I don't know if it is a routine pattern that was often played over tumbaos or other grooves, but I don't think I've heard this precise riff on other Latin records.  

I wonder what the story is. 

 

 

[JSngry]

When this gets settled, can I get to choose between Oscar Peterson & Chris Montez? I think that would be easier!

It's the same riff, different keys, and/but both have different publishers.

I would leant towards trusting Columbia over Jubilee, but I don't know if I'd lean towards either of the actually writing it, if you know what I mean. Sounds kinda vernacular-y to me, or at the least "in the vernacular"-y.

 

[Dub Modal]

That Blakey track is fantastic

[Teasing the Korean]

7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

When this gets settled, can I get to choose between Oscar Peterson & Chris Montez? I think that would be easier!

No, I'm talking about Neal Hefti Oscar Pedersen, the European bassist.

[JSngry]

Oh, the N-ternational House Of Pancakes guy.

[Teasing the Korean]

4 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

That Blakey track is fantastic

The whole side of the album is great.  The Drum Suite is IMO much better than any of Blakey's Blue Note drum/percussion albums.

[Dub Modal]

Just now, Teasing the Korean said:

The whole side of the album is great.  The Drum Suite is IMO much better than any of Blakey's Blue Note drum/percussion albums.

I've never given this one an ear, but I've heard some of those BN's and at this point I'm in agreement. 

[JSngry]

4 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

That Blakey track is fantastic

The Montez is pretty good too, think I found the LP on a blog a few years back and was pleasantly surprised how "real" it was. Sometimes you don't know, you see something like that and thing, uh-oh, ersatzic, surely. But this was not, this was just fine.

[Dub Modal]

1 minute ago, JSngry said:

The Montez is pretty good too, think I found the LP on a blog a few years back and was pleasantly surprised how "real" it was. Sometimes you don't know, you see something like that and thing, uh-oh, ersatzic, surely. But this was not, this was just fine.

Listening now. Yeah, the percussion with vibes is nice. 

[Teasing the Korean]

Just now, Dub Modal said:

I've never given this one an ear, but I've heard some of those BN's and at this point I'm in agreement. 

Side 1 is The Drum Suite, and side 2 is the Jazz Messengers doing their thang.

The Columbia album grooves much more.  As I wrote in another thread, my problem with the Blue Note albums is Blakey sounds like he's fighting against the African/Latin grooves, rather than grooving with them, and I don't mean going against them in a rhythmically interesting or compelling way either.

Hoping that Mike Weil will waddle into the discussion. 

[Dub Modal]

Just now, Teasing the Korean said:

Side 1 is The Drum Suite, and side 2 is the Jazz Messengers doing their thang.

The Columbia album grooves much more.  As I wrote in another thread, my problem with the Blue Note albums is Blakey sounds like he's fighting against the African/Latin grooves, rather than grooving with them, and I don't mean going against them in a rhythmically interesting or compelling way either.

That's a good way to put it. When I heard them my reaction was that it sounded contrived and forced. 

[Teasing the Korean]

1 minute ago, Dub Modal said:

That's a good way to put it. When I heard them my reaction was that it sounded contrived and forced. 

In fairness, some of those Blue Note tracks work better than others, and you could assemble a decent compilation with the best tracks from all of them.  

[mikeweil]

The Bobby Montez theme is "borrowed" from the second part/phrase of Tito Puente's "Philadelphia Mambo". 

 Cal Tjader also recorded that tune. both versions predate Montez'.

Pettiford et al might have heard either version. It was a popular track on the Latin Jazz scene.

Montez sure is Puente and Tjader influenced, as was probably every Latin vibes player after the two.

[Teasing the Korean]

10 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

The Bobby Montez theme is "borrowed" from the second part/phrase of Tito Puente's "Philadelphia Mambo". 

 Cal Tjader also recorded that tune. both versions predate Montez'.

Pettiford et al might have heard either version. It was a popular track on the Latin Jazz scene.

Montez sure is Puente and Tjader influenced, as was probably every Latin vibes player after the two.

Thank you!  I wonder what Puente's reaction was to the other two tunes.  Better yet, I wonder what the publisher's reaction was. 

[Teasing the Korean]

Since starting this thread, I picked up Jungle Fantastique.  Prior to this, I had only "African Fantasy" on a Blue Note comp.  

The whole album is great!  Side 1 is like an exotica album, and side 2 is more straight ahead Latin jazz.