Bronisław Kaper - "Invitation" and "On Green Dolphin Street"

[Teasing the Korean]

It is fascinating to me who does and does not get to write a standard.  

Within the film world, celebrated film composers such as Bernard Herrmann, Jerry Goldsmith, and John Williams never managed to write a tune that became a "standard" in the way we think of jazz standards and the Great American Songbook.

So it is all the more fascinating to me that Polish-born film composer Bronisław Kaper, who is nearly forgotten today, managed to write not one but two jazz standards.

Supposedly, when Kaper was told that Miles Davis had recorded "On Green Dolphin Street," Kaper did not grasp the gravity of this event.  He was told that once Miles recorded a tune, everyone else would also.  

So he is remembered today far more because of those two tunes than anything else he did as part of his routine day gig. I would love to know how much money Kaper made over the years off of "Invitation" and "On Green Dolphin Street" relative to his film work. 

Here is the composer playing these tunes in 1975.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Teasing the Korean

[Ken Dryden]

Maybe more of Kaper’s music needs to explored. I remember a third Kaper song, “Theme From ‘Arrest And Trial’” being recorded by Jimmy Rowles, but that was a tv theme for a short-lived legal drama in the early 1969s.

[Bill Nelson]

Kaper's theme to 'Butterfield 8' gets me every time.

 

 

[Rooster_Ties]

2 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

I would love to know how much money Kaper made over the years off of "Invitation" and "On Green Dolphin Street" relative to his film work.

I’d love to know that too!!

And a semi-related question too: I’d also love to know how much Sam Rivers made off of royalties from “Beatrice” over the years (especially broken down by decade at least, or by year). Not a mint, I realize, but I understand it wasn’t nothing either.

Backstage while waiting to get an autograph, I heard Sam mention to someone (when I heard him play in Topeka in 2008) that the royalties from Beatrice was his ‘retirement’ (or something to that effect).

[JSngry]

I don't know that anybody "gets" to write a standard.

What you might get by composing a film theme or a show score is an initial chance for exposure, but after that, no. A song has to catch on with both musians and listeners, and then keep on catching on. That sort of feeds on itself. Or not. 

[Teasing the Korean]

1 minute ago, JSngry said:

I don't know that anybody "gets" to write a standard.

What you might get by composing a film theme or a show score is an initial chance for exposure, but after that, no. A song has to catch on with both musians and listeners, and then keep on catching on. That sort of feeds on itself. Or not. 

Yes, agreed.  But by the law of averages, some have a greater shot than others.

[JSngry]

The Broadway musical was the main conduit for "success" before film and TV. The writers who had success there had a running start, which created a business apparatus to lock it in. That apparatus continues to this day 

Outside of that realm, though, you have Tin Pan Alley and the song pluggers. All you have to do is look at the collective early recordings of, say, Billie Holiday to see that most of those songs were drek and failed accordingly. 

And really, of those writers who had hits outside of the world of musicals, how many had LOTS of hits.

Success feeds on itself, but until the business comes along to entrench it, that feeding is usually going to be a snack.

I think the better question is not who gets to write a standard, but who gets to own one after it is written. That is who will ensure that it stays one. 

Staying one...I just looked at a Wiki list of Walter Donaldson songs, and most are forgotten today and the ones that aren't are the sort of songs that you are going to have to have done your homework to know about. 

[Teasing the Korean]

3 minutes ago, JSngry said:

The Broadway musical was the main conduit for "success" before film and TV. The writers who had success there had a running start, which created a business apparatus to lock it in. That apparatus continues to this day 

Outside of that realm, though, you have Tin Pan Alley and the song pluggers. All you have to do is look at the collective early recordings of, say, Billie Holiday to see that most of those songs were drek and failed accordingly. 

And really, of those writers who had hits outside of the world of musicals, how many had LOTS of hits.

Success feeds on itself, but until the business comes along to entrench it, that feeding is usually going to be a snack.

I think the better question is not who gets to write a standard, but who gets to own one after it is written. That is who will ensure that it stays one. 

My point is that Kaper's tunes kind of accidentally became standards.  I don't think Kaper was setting out to write tunes that would be played by jazz musicians.  Compare this to songwriters who were desperately trying to score a hit, and were never capable of achieving hits.  Compare this also to celebrated film composers who, through their popularity, might have set themselves up to write a standard, or at least a sub-standard, but never did so.  Goldsmith and Williams com to mind.

Did you know that two Bernard Herrmann melodies were turned into "songs?"  "Marnie" and "Madeleine."   I'm guessing the lyricists thought they might be another "Laura" or "Stella by Starlight."  They weren't.

 

[Larry Kart]

Anyone here ever see "Green Dolphin  Street"? Crazy movie with stunning special effects -- an earthquake in New Zealand IIRC.

[JSngry]

You can look at the litany of MOR records from the middle 50s thru....whenever, and sense the almost desperate attempts to create new standards from various shows and movies, all those records with Song Title (from the ______ ________), shit you never heard of before and very seldom wanted to after.  Apart from an occasional fluke like "Hello Dolly" and the ongoing stream of Mancini's, not a lot took. Tastes were changing. I mean Bricusse-Newley, a niche market. Legrand, a bigger niche, but a niche market nevertheless.

How many people outside of a very fixed demographic are going to recognize those songs today. 

There is an industry that is fully invested in keeping the Broadway legacy alive. They are doing their job and their job is not looking for worthy additions to their Parthenon.

I would also suggest that notable film scoring is well on its way to having somewhat the same. 

3 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

Anyone here ever see "Green Dolphin  Street"? Crazy movie with stunning special effects -- an earthquake in New Zealand IIRC.

My folks actually had the novel for god knows what reason. Not sure if I ended up with it or not. 

[Teasing the Korean]

11 minutes ago, JSngry said:

You can look at the litany of MOR records from the middle 50s thru....whenever, and sense the almost desperate attempts to create new standards from various shows and movies, all those records with Song Title (from the ______ ________), shit you never heard of before and very seldom wanted to after.  Apart from an occasional fluke like "Hello Dolly" and the ongoing stream of Mancini's, not a lot took. Tastes were changing. I mean Bricusse-Newley, a niche market. Legrand, a bigger niche, but a niche market nevertheless.

How many people outside of a very fixed demographic are going to recognize those songs today. 

There is an industry that is fully invested in keeping the Broadway legacy alive. They are doing their job and their job is not looking for worthy additions to their Parthenon.

I would also suggest that notable film scoring is well on its way to having somewhat the same. 

Yes, agreed, we are saying the same thing.  

[JSngry]

Gotta be a hit of some sort before it can gain traction.

Was "Who Can I Turn To" a hit? Is it truly a standard?

I would submit that is was only a bit of a hit and is only a niche standard. Looks like people mostly recorded it when they thought it was popular and then eventually stopped when it wasn't. Bill Evans liked, but of course Bill Evans would like it. 

So .. where is the business apparatus to keep the Leslie Bricusse legacy on the ever ascending route to sacred status?

Do you really want "The Candy Man" to be around any longer than it already has been? 

[Ken Dryden]

If you aren’t humming at least one song after seeing a Broadway musical, there probably isn’t a potential standard in it.

A lot of new musicals just haven’t featured music that interests jazz musicians.

 

Film music is even less promising then Broadway musicals these days. Of course much of the music is too poppish and lacks a memorable melody. John Williams is one of a kind, but even his music doesn’t draw attention from jazz artists. Not that I would want to hear a cd of jazz arrangements of music from Star Wars.

[riddlemay]

Kaper's score for Lili contains the song "Hi-Lili Hi-Lili Hi-Lo." I don't know if it qualifies as a standard--but I bet a lot of people (at least people of a certain age) would recognize it. It starts at about 53 seconds.

 

[JSngry]

Just now, riddlemay said:

Kaper's score for Lili contains the song "Hi-Lili Hi-Lili Hi-Lo." I don't know if it qualifies as a standard--but I bet a lot of people (at least people of a certain age) would recognize it. It starts at about 53 seconds.

 

No idea that was Kaper!

I had it on a Shari Lewis 45 when I was a child! 

This!!!

Swinging On A Star. There's a standard of sorts as well! 

[Larry Kart]

Can't beat "The Love Theme from 'The Brothers Karamazov'"

[JSngry]

Can't beat Shari Lewis!

Where was Sonny Stitt for this one?!?!?!?!

 

[Larry Kart]

Who knew that Kaper and Bud Powell were connected.

[Teasing the Korean]

17 hours ago, Bill Nelson said:

Kaper's theme to 'Butterfield 8' gets me every time.

 

Nice! Do you know who is playing that?  I'm guessing it's not the film version.

14 hours ago, riddlemay said:

Kaper's score for Lili contains the song "Hi-Lili Hi-Lili Hi-Lo." I don't know if it qualifies as a standard--but I bet a lot of people (at least people of a certain age) would recognize it. It starts at about 53 seconds.

 

I didn't know Kaper wrote that!  Even Tim Buckley recorded it!

[Teasing the Korean]

14 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Can't beat "The Love Theme from 'The Brothers Karamazov'"

The piano version sounds like the theme from a 70s European erotic film.  Which is a good thing.

 

[Larry Kart]

20 hours ago, JSngry said:

Can't beat Shari Lewis!

Where was Sonny Stitt for this one?!?!?!?!

 

 

[JSngry]

After weighing all the data, I'll stick with Shari