Sundog Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Yet another good reason to cherish your vinyl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 After all, what good is copy protection in parts of the world, if the real deal can be ordered from elsewhere? In these Internet times buying something from another continent only requires a few mouse clicks. The filesharing networks are global too, so if people in one country can rip from real CDs, the files will soon be available anywhere anyway. The current protection schemes are so weak that any user who wants to crack it will be able to do it with the right tools and some information from the internet. The protected Norah CD I tried could be copied from my CD burner drive without any such cracking method. Apparently the copyprotection doesn't work with all PC drives. So the music would find it's way into filesharing networks even if all CDs were protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 My promo copy of Joe Lovano's upcoming Blue Note album "I'm All For You" (due out May 4) is copy-protected. Great music, not so great fidelity. I have reviewed it for AAJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 My promo copy of Joe Lovano's upcoming Blue Note album "I'm All For You" (due out May 4) is copy-protected. Great music, not so great fidelity. I have reviewed it for AAJ. But the crappy sound has nothing to do with copy protection, just to put that old myth to rest. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 (edited) I have suspected for a long time the major factor in weak primary CD sales is the used market, not file sharing. And who are among the biggest suppliers to the used market? Entertainment company employees!! 3 or 4 live on our block, you can see their discarded major label CD cartons out on the curb every week for trash pickup. Up they go every week to Holy Cow in Park Slope (recently closed), or Kim's or now even J&R to sell their new releases. Gotta be worth a $1000 or more on a typical W-2 (they each get a few or more comps each week), but such cake probably doesn't get reported by any of these hypocrites, or by the companies doling out the discs. I would never buy a new disc under that new proposed scheme. They would have to cut the price too because they are offering less functionality, or this could finally bring the antitrust folks down on such scummy vault-hording monopolists. Ridiculous. Another New Coke for our time. We should start a campaign to get the IRS to look at entertainment company comps. The stuff is valuable. Edited April 3, 2004 by AmirBagachelles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Maybe there are many entertainment company employees in New York, but for the rest of the world this is hardly relevant. I have visited many second hand stores in European capitals, but have never seen one which really offered a selection of music which could compete with regular CD stores. I have rarely seen "not for sale" CDs in second hand stores here. Great bargains and OOP CDs can be found there, but it will never endanger sales of new CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Claude, you're probably right when thinking globally, but I have been thinking along those lines as well. Second-hand CD shops, if you live in the right place, attract a lot of customers, and, if the city is big enough, one can easily sustain a habit by regularly visiting them. In Copenhagen, Denmark, there's a chain named "Accord" with, as far as I recall, 5 shops in town. Their stock is huge (their jazz selection is very extensive as well) and is refreshed on a daily basis. A central PC database will even direct you to the shop which has what you are looking for, and combined with a shop in the German city I lived in for many years as well, most (!!) of my several thousand CDs were/are second-hand CDs carefully selected. 95% of those were in mint or near-mint condition, and I probably still frequent second-hand stores or Internet sites more often than any regular outlet. I predict that the second-hand market will grow even more, especially because there are quite a lot of people like me, unable or unwilling to dish out all that cash for a new release. There's always someone unloading what you're looking for, you just have to be quick on the draw and (very) patient (sometimes). Just the other day I hit one of the (5! ) new second-hand stores in town, and they had ALL of the Universal Deluxe Limited at 12 Euro, every single one (including many not available in Germany). Someone must have unloaded his collection and I walked in at the right time. I just bought the lot and will unload 50% of 'em on eBay. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted April 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 The protected Norah CD I tried could be copied from my CD burner drive without any such cracking method. Apparently the copyprotection doesn't work with all PC drives. True. That’s because it isn’t a copy protection per se; it’s just a number of errors inserted in the discs, with the intention to take advantage of the traditional difference that has existed between computer drives and regular CD players in the way they handle error correction. Thus the Cactus Data Shield scheme has errors inserted in a way that will render the disc unplayable in most computer drives, and playable in most regular CD players. It never was 100 % in either case, due to the diversity of CD player models out there. This difference is however quickly eroding now, as manufacturers of CD-ROM drives are moving forward technically as well, and are adjusting the design of the drives so that they are able to play copy-protected discs too. It’s only a natural competitive move to do this, since a drive that can play more types of discs will be more attractive to the consumer. So especially if you have a new CD drive, it is not so surprising if it can handle Cactus Data Shield discs. So what are the record companies going to do about this development? One attempt is to step up the error level even further (and there are signs that they already have done this), to try to get ahead of the CD drive designers again, but this will have the drawback of making it unplayable in even more regular CD players as well. And the reports of CD players that have been damaged temporarily or permanently after a Cactus disc has been inserted (yes, there are many reports of that, especially for older CD players) will only increase. I wonder if this might be a reason why EMI now is considering dropping the Cactus scheme, as your source says. I also wonder if a possible substitute then might be the Darknoise technology briefly discussed in this thread: Copy Protection. That one might be trickier if it actually works the way it is described in the CNET article. So the music would find it's way into filesharing networks even if all CDs were protected. I absolutely agree. But if the record company executives think it makes a difference, then it makes no sense having copy protection only in parts of the world, and that’s why they likely have some sort of plans for the US market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 But who knows what EMI is planning right now? Words of wisdom; words of woe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 The music industry could adopt the SCO (the software maker, not the guitarist ) business model: stop making products and try to catch and sue intellectual property pirates. This hasn't yet proven to be successful though. SCO's Linux Fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 Have the bean counters ever listened to the promotional department? The occasional copy I send or give to friends is actually free promotion for the record companies. It usually leads to them buying more of the artist or genre. I'm LMAO at what dumbasses these guys are. If it was my company I'd print on every CD, "Please loan or copy for a friend, so they can hear this great music and see if they would like more of the same." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 See the NY Times this morning, statistical finding that file sharing is not driving down sales. That is in the future, since file sharing and CD burning will be more rampant once consumers have a real motivation to acquire a better product than the new one the cos. will try to cram up our asses. New-release pricing can't compete w/ Ebay and the used market. It may really be that simple. The fact that CDs do not (in practical terms) degrade w/ use was a large factor spurring adoption in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Yet another good reason to cherish your vinyl! Amen, brother ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Is anyone besides me noticing the irony here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 I don't know if it had already been discussed in the forum, but apparently EMI will release copyprotected CDs in the US too (announcement in June). http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/21/em...opy_protection/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 (edited) No matter what 'they' introduce, there is always some software to break it. Fuck them. Fuck the technology. What sucks is that I 'buy' the CD releases because I want the legitimate copy of the tunes. I've got enough music to last me a lifetime. Good luck to you, Blue Note. If you want to screw with the folks thay still buy your old shit. Then fuck you. Edited September 20, 2005 by wesbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 (edited) I think I sense conflict here -_- Use the force to resolve your anger and learn to rip cds quicker Edited September 20, 2005 by andybleaden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Someone's had too much candy corn, hot wings and cheap beer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 I mean, I 'buy' all your old shit. Now, you're going to make it more difficult for me to copy your old shit to my hard drive? Whatever. I'll still copy what I want. I know people who know. It will take only slightly more effort from me. Fuck you. Blue Note. Fuck you. :bwallace2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Someone's had too much candy corn, hot wings and cheap beer! ← Oh yeah? Just how do you define 'cheap' beer? Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Let them think they are doing a good job and as an insult rip at higher quality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 I'm in today's Top Ten Organissimo posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 by the way ...I only went to the US .....what are candy corns??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Candy corn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Brach's. Jeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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