Ira Gitler's Swing to Bop

[Big Beat Steve]

10 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

I would avoid that book - there are no, IIRC, citations and I know that one of its key quotes - Bird explaining how he came up with the idea of using upper chord intervals - was discredited years ago. I honestly don't remember where this was done, but I was able to convince the Burns people not to use it in the jazz series. After that, I would not trust the book in general.

Really sorry to contradict you, but the book DOES have quotes (in fact, it largely consists of quotes, though the layout and the lengthiness of many quotes may make them harder to remember as such - see excerpts below; my copy is the 1955 printing by Peter Davies Ltd., London).
However, I am not sure either how much of the contents still stand up as substantial eyewitness accounts and are not rather lore or anecdotes (time to re-read it, I guess). And I still consider "Swing To Bop" superior because it its more in-depth and focused - which of course is easier to accomplish as it covers a narrower time frame. and I admit I may be biased because both Swing and Bebop are among my main areas of interest in jazz (including the transitional recordings that straddle the stylistic fence).

Edited July 5, 2023 by Big Beat Steve

[AllenLowe]

5 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Really sorry to contradict you, but the book DOES have quotes (in fact, it largely consists of quotes, though the layout and the lengthiness of many quotes may make them harder to remember as such - see excerpts below; my copy is the 1955 printing by Peter Davies Ltd., London).
However, I am not sure either how much of the contents still stand up as substantial eyewitness accounts and are not rather lore or anecdotes (time to re-read it, I guess). And I still consider "Swing To Bop" superior because it its more in-depth and focused - which of course is easier to accomplish as it covers a narrower time frame. and I admit I may be biased because both Swing and Bebop are among my main areas of interest in jazz (including the transitional recordings that straddle the stylistic fence).

sorry, I should have been more clear - I know the book and its format well; it was one of the first jazz books I ever read. What I mean is that the sources of those quotes have no citations, no references to where they came from, and I do know (though I apologize as it has been almost 30 years since I read about it) that the Bird quote was discredited to both my satisfaction and that of PBS/Burns. Which makes me distrustful of the other quotes.

[Big Beat Steve]

OK, I understand now ...

[adh1907]

Great book, got me excited about jazz when I was 18, along with my Dad’s jazz book club edition of Ross Russell’s Parker the legend. Unreliable (the nutmeg recipe didn’t work) but an exciting read as a youngster. 

4 minutes ago, adh1907 said:

Great book, got me excited about jazz when I was 18, along with my Dad’s jazz book club edition of Ross Russell’s Parker the legend. Unreliable (the nutmeg recipe didn’t work) but an exciting read as a youngster. 

Sorry, meant Robert Reisner’s Bird book. 

[Brad]

Starting to read this now. 

[Big Beat Steve]

3 hours ago, Brad said:

Starting to read this now. 

Started re-reading it AGAIN (in small instalments) 2-3 days ago. Still find it as rewarding as 25+ years ago. 

[Rabshakeh]

The only thing I would say against it is that it very slow going. 

[Big Beat Steve]

23 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

The only thing I would say against it is that it very slow going. 

There is a difference betwen covering 80 (or even 50) to 100 years or 10 years (as in this case) on some 300 pages. So doesn't this explain that?

I think I know what you mean but what you call "slow going" is what i would call "intense".

Edited May 3, 2024 by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

52 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

The only thing I would say against it is that it very slow going. 

It's still faster than real time.

[Brad]

1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

The only thing I would say against it is that it very slow going. 

In what way?

[HutchFan]

Another thumbs up for Swing to Bop from me also.  I read it early on in my jazz explorations, and it was massively helpful.

 

[Rabshakeh]

It is just very dense. And those quotations often need a couple of reads to be understood.

1 hour ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I think I know what you mean but what you call "slow going" is what i would call "intense".

Also intense. There's a lot there.