Lester Young 1952

[medjuck]

I posted this to  a jazz research list serve and got no response.  Maybe someone here knows.

On a Jazz Club USA broadcast from (I believe) 1952 devoted to Arnett Cobb and Lester Young, Leonard Feather announces that Prez was recorded at Birdland and that his band consists of Jesse Drake, Earl Knight, Lee Abrams and Gene Ramey. However though all these players were in the band around the same period , neither of the 2 Prez discographies I own show them all in the band at the same time.

The numbers played on the broadcast are standard for Prez at that time: "Neenah", "Ghost of a Chance", "Lester Leaps in" and "Destination Moon".

Does anyone know when this performance took place and who the players were? (It is possible that the Jazz Club USA broadcast used numbers from more than one night, with different members of the band on separate nights.)

[Niko]

Mysterious! Looking at the discography (Evensmo), it seems that Destination Moon is the track that wasn't recorded often... and which points to 25 April 1952 where the other tracks were recorded as well. For this, the Evensmo-lineup is what you have but with Wynton Kelly, Aaron Bell and Jo Jones sitting in for Abrams on some tracks... Now it seems unlikely to me that this Jazz Club USA epsiode was forgotten in all the discographies... And even if the tracks came from different nights with different lineups, that wouldn't make Feather's announcement correct... So my tentative conclusion is 25 April 1952 and Feather was announcing a lineup he'd maybe received in advance.... Also possible that Feather is right about the lineup and discographies are wrong. The first step would be to compare the music from 25 April to the radio show...

[Big Beat Steve]

My Prez discography ("Lestorian Notes" by Piet Koster and Harm Mobach, published in 1998, so I don't know if this one or the one by Jan Evensmo is more up to date) lists the session of 25 April 1952 like this:

I then tried to narrow down the recordings to the line-up given by Feather, and according to the musician index Earl Knight only appeared once with Pres - on the session hereafter of 4 August 1951:

But Earl Knight and Lee Abrams together at one and the same session apparently never happened - at least not on any known recordings. So ...?

Like Niko said, the 25 April 1952 date is the most likely candidate, but the line-up announced by Feather then would be incorrect. 

If all this is what you already arrived at as well, Medjuck, then sorry - but I tried.  

Edited Saturday at 07:39 AM by Big Beat Steve

[medjuck]

Thanks.  Those are the 2 discographies I was working with.  I'm pretty sure Feather wasn't present and I suspect that the cuts broadcast  are from  2 or three different dates. 

[Big Beat Steve]

So that settles it. (Or back to the starting grid? )
However, if all the names mentioned by Leonard Feather were in the lineup(s), though apparently never all of them at the same time, and if these weren't all the musicians present (according to your post he did not mention Wynton Kelly and Aaron Bell present on 25/04/52), then the "different dates" must include the one from 4 August 1951 because that is the only one that has Earl Knight in the lineup (with "Neenah" and "Lester Leaps In" recorded at both possible dates indicated above). And as you have seen in the "Lestorian Notes", several more Birdland Broadcasts exist from April/May 1952 with the same lineup as on 25/04/52. But none of the tunes recorded at these subsequent dates match those of 25/04/52.

[miles65]

Evensmo on line version of his research is more up to date than Koster/Mobach.

Search Results for "Lester Young" | JazzArcheology.com

[Big Beat Steve]

11 hours ago, miles65 said:

Evensmo on line version of his research is more up to date than Koster/Mobach.

Search Results for "Lester Young" | JazzArcheology.com

As far as I can see (Page 11 of the Lester Young Part 3 document) the basic info (dates, lineups, tunes) remains the same the for dates discussed above but he is more detailed in analyzing the contents of each tracks (solos, etc.). OTOH he does not list the track lengths or the record releases. So both sources together would give the best possible overview. And the descriptions of the solos should help clarifying which tune is from which date.

So ... thanks for the link! I downloaded all 3 files "for future reference".  And will certainly do so with others too.

[Niko]

when I saw a cheap copy of Ambrosia 30 yesterday, I couldn't resist and took it home to compare against the broadcast here:

and these are the same versions of the same songs. To be more precise, compared to the A side of Ambrosia 30, In a little spanish town is missing and the order of Lester Leaps In and Destination Moon is flipped but that's the only difference. So this is the tape that is commonly dated 25 April 1952. The lineup with Kelly, Bell and Abrams is consistent, e.g., with what is found in Frank Buchmann Moller's book but other sources give other lineups, most commonly Knight as a possible alternative for Kelly (e.g. in Dan Morgenstern's notes for some Lester Young box I saw yesterday, can't find it now)

[medjuck]

9 hours ago, Niko said:

when I saw a cheap copy of Ambrosia 30 yesterday, I couldn't resist and took it home to compare against the broadcast here:

and these are the same versions of the same songs. To be more precise, compared to the A side of Ambrosia 30, In a little spanish town is missing and the order of Lester Leaps In and Destination Moon is flipped but that's the only difference. So this is the tape that is commonly dated 25 April 1952. The lineup with Kelly, Bell and Abrams is consistent, e.g., with what is found in Frank Buchmann Moller's book but other sources give other lineups, most commonly Knight as a possible alternative for Kelly (e.g. in Dan Morgenstern's notes for some Lester Young box I saw yesterday, can't find it now)

I just got a response from the Jazz Research group from someone who heard the original Boris Rose acetates.  He says the announcer lists the group and Feather got it right,  Buchmann-Moller wrong.  (The other Discography I have doesn't even list the session. )

BTW He also says the announcer speaks just before and after Destination  Moon and there's no mention of Jo Jones sitting in on that number as Buchmann-Moller claims he does.

BTW Where did you buy the Ambrosia disc?  Or see the Prez Box? 

Edited 12 hours ago by medjuck

[Niko]

thanks, this is all super interesting, I really like the piano playing in this session, so good to know it's Eark Knight ... (and Jesse Drakes is really good, too). Still, curious where Buchmann-Moller got his information... He wrote that Young's manager Charlie Carpenter organized the band with Kelly, Bell and Abrams for Young so that it was ready after he got back from a JATP tour... 

the Buchmann-Moller book was in excerpts on archive.org... the Ambrosia disc I got from a local shop which I knew had two or three of them... "Dan Morgenstern's notes for some Lester Young box" I had misremembered, it was Dan Morgenstern's Lester Young discography in the 1973 Downbeat yearbook here on p.52, based on Jepsen... 

[medjuck]

BTW The person who solved the mystery was James Accardi.  I should have cited him in my last post. 

[romualdo]

2 hours ago, medjuck said:

BTW The person who solved the mystery was James Accardi.  I should have cited him in my last post. 

James to the rescue!!

[John L]

Great discussion here.   I come back to the early-50s live recordings of Lester Young over and over again, especially 1950-1951.

[romualdo]

Here's the 5 LY 1952 Birdland sessions from current Lord

 

Lester Young Quartet : Jesse Drakes (tp) Lester Young (ts) Wynton Kelly (p) Aaron Bell (b) Lee Abrams (d) or Jo Jones (d-1)

WNEW radio broadcast, "Birdland", New York, April 25, 1952

	Neenah	Ambrosia AMB-30
	(I don't stand a) Ghost of a chance (with you)	-
	In a little Spanish town	-
	Destination moon (1)	-
	Lester leaps in	-

Note:

Ambrosia AMB-30 titled "Lester Young: The President, Vol. 3". All above titles also on Jazz View (Eu)COD-037 [CD] titled "Historical Masters : Lester Young - The President, Volume 3"; see May 2 & 3, 1952 for rest of CD. All above titles also on Prez Box (It)PB1-22, JUTB (It)CD-3028 [CD], Sound Hills (Jap)SSCD-8035/50 [CD].

[Y750]Add

Lester Young Quartet : Jesse Drakes (tp) Lester Young (ts) Wynton Kelly (p) Aaron Bell (b) Lee Abrams (d)

NBC radio broadcast, "Birdland", New York, April 26, 1952

	Tea for two	(unissued)
	I cover the waterfront	-
	Up 'n Adam	-
	Three little words	-

Note:

These items have proved untraceable and the tape is probably lost.

[Y751]Add

Lester Young Quintet : Jesse Drakes (tp) Lester Young (ts) Wynton Kelly (p) Aaron Bell (b) Lee Abrams (d)

NBC radio broadcast, "Birdland", New York, May 2, 1952

	Up `n' Adam	Ambrosia AMB-30
	'Deed I do	-      , Curcio (It)GJ99
	How high the moon	-
	Pennies from Heaven	-

Note:

All above titles also on Prez Box (It)PB1-22, JUTB (It)CD-3028 [CD], Jazz View (Eu)COD-037 [CD], Sound Hills (Jap)SSCD-8035/50 [CD].

[Y752]Add

Lester Young Quintet : Jesse Drakes (tp) Lester Young (ts) Wynton Kelly (p) Aaron Bell (b) Lee Abrams (d)

NBC radio broadcast, "Birdland", New York, May 3, 1952

	Up `n' Adam	Ambrosia AMB-30, Jazz View (Eu)COD-037 [CD]
	'Deed I do	Ambrosia AMB-40, Jazz View (Eu)COD-038 [CD]

Note:

Ambrosia AMB-40 titled "Lester Young: The President, Vol. 4". Jazz View (Eu)COD-038 [CD] titled "Historical Masters - Lester Young - The President, Volume 4"; see May 3, 1952, August 27, 1952 & January 3, 1953 for rest of CD. Both above titles also on Prez Box (It)PB1-22, JUTB (It)CD-3028 [CD], Sound Hills (Jap)SSCD-8035/50 [CD].

[Y753]Add

Lester Young Quintet : Jesse Drakes (tp) Lester Young (ts) Gil Coggins (p) Aaron Bell (b) Connie Kay (d)

NBC radio broadcast, "Birdland", New York, August 2, 1952

	Jumpin' with Symphony Sid (theme)	(unissued)
	Up `n' Adam	Ambrosia AMB-40, I Giganti del Jazz (It)GJ99
	(I don't stand a) Ghost of a chance (with you)	-      , I Giganti del Jazz (It)GJ52
	In a little Spanish town	-      , I Giganti del Jazz (It)GJ99
	Too marvellous for words	-      , I Giganti del Jazz (It)GJ52
	Neenah	-      , I Giganti del Jazz (It)GJ52

Note:

I Giganti del Jazz (It)GJ52 titled "Lester Young, Dizzy Gillespie, Cal Tjader". All issued titles also on Prez Box (It)PB1-22, JUTB (It)CD-3029 [CD], Jazz View (Eu)COD-038 [CD], Sound Hills (Jap)SSCD-8035/50 [CD].