BFT 260 - Tom Turkey's Terrifying Tryptophan 2025 Revenge Tour!!!!!!

[randyhersom]

Timings and a quick compare lead me to ID 2 as The Barbara Song composed by Bertolt Brecht and Kurt Weill.

In other news:

Grant Green – First Recordings – CD (Compilation, Remastered), 2013 [r13568700] | Discogs

If six was nine ... well it is.

 

Edited November 3 by randyhersom

[Dan Gould]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

There ta'go. Now to find the album this version is on?

 

I'm not that concerned unless it's something with a lot of orphan tracks that don't exist elsewhere.

[randyhersom]

Also track 4 on Black Forrest

[JSngry]

18 minutes ago, randyhersom said:

Also track 4 on Black Forrest

There ya go! As good as the first-releawd takes. Mostly just balance issues ( like this one) and raggy heads that got them shelved 

It's a most worthy addition imo 

2 hours ago, randyhersom said:

Timings and a quick compare lead me to ID 2 as The Barbara Song composed by Bertolt Brecht and Kurt Weill.

 

From The Threepenny Opera, that's it! But there's one notable party not yet named...

[randyhersom]

On 2, Wayne Shorter does solo on tenor eventually.

Edited November 4 by randyhersom

[JSngry]

Exactly! One of his most ephemeral solos, perhaps the most. It is almost inaudible when it ends, dissipating into the mist even more slowly than it enters it.

[randyhersom]

9 is Helena, the last track (#8) from El Chico.  Chico and Gabor, but no Dolphy

[JSngry]

50 minutes ago, randyhersom said:

9 is Helena, the last track (#8) from El Chico.  Chico and Gabor, but no Dolphy

Correct again!

The flutist may come a surprise to some, but the bassist shouldn't.

[B. Clugston]

Track 4 is from André Jolivet’s Pastorales de Noël. Nice post-Debussy vibe. I have no idea who is playing but my wild guess is it’s members of Ornette Coleman’s one-time backup band, the Philadelphia Wind Quintet, plus Marilyn Costello on harp. 

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, B. Clugston said:

Track 4 is from André Jolivet’s Pastorales de Noël. Nice post-Debussy vibe. I have no idea who is playing but my wild guess is it’s members of Ornette Coleman’s one-time backup band, the Philadelphia Wind Quintet, plus Marilyn Costello on harp. 

Right on all counts!

[tkeith]

track 01 - Can't make out what's being said, here.  Connected to speakers, too.

track 02 - Well, certainly sounds like Gil Evans writing, but not sure what it is.  Guy's writing is always interesting.  Probably doesn't hurt that he always works with killin' musicians, either.  Case in point, that certainly sounds like Wayne Shorter.  I know two things:  1) I don't have this, 2) I need this.  4.5/5

track 03 - My first thought was Heinz Sauer on tenor, but it's not him -- cleaner sound.  Definitely someone with that European influence.  Maybe Sean Bergin?  No confidence in that guess.  Phrasing has Shepp's influence at times (hence the Sauer connection).  Not sure how often I'd dig this out, but in the right mood, this is excellent.  Non-standard instrumentation.  Getting a slight Frank Carlberg vibe from the piano, but this pianist is more melodic.  This works. 4/5

track 04 - This one is it bit too programatic for my taste.  Interesting composition, stellar musicianship, but not hitting me in the feels. 2.5/5

track 05 - Odd composition.  Durge-y, quirky, but also musical.  Horn arrangement is pretty straight ahead, but dense.  I don't want to say Gil, again, but what else could it be?  I don't know this.  At 2:45, that line the horns are playing teases Mingus, but SCREAMS Gil.  If I had any guts, I'd make the claim, but I'm struggling to commit.  I mean, if it's Gil, it's likely a band with Knepper, Rehak and company, so... would explain why it works.  3.5/5

track 06 - Brash tenor.  Cookin'.  Sounds like Jimmy Forrest to me... a LOT.  I'd give time off my life to be able to play like that.  Fearless.  A-HA!  At 2:40, there's a tell -- that's Grant Green, for sure.  Ah!  Okay, this is in my stacks.  Forgot about the drummer (shame on me!).  It's track A4 from this. 4/5

track 07 - A little clavé.  No idea who it is, but I really like this.  Drawing full blanks on the tenor.  My guess is these guys are from the 60s.  The feel is all there.  I'm not getting clear pings on who they are, but that pianist could fit easily into one of Bobby Hutcherson's bands (and probably has).  Hand drums feel a bit stiff, but I bet this band caused a little shake in person.  Got to see Tito once, and man, am I ever glad I did.  That music needs to be EXPERIENCED! 4/5

track 08 - I'm sensing a trend!  (just call me Deanna Troi).  Live (boot?).  Has the feel of somebody like Hal Springer.  Pianist has very deliberate phrasing.  Makes me wonder if this is a newer recording.  McCoyisms in the piano, but also some Kenny Barron influence.  Mayhaps a student of the latter?  HEAVY McCoy influence.  So, an alto (sound was so bad, couldn't be sure on the head).  Only guy I've heard approximate that Blakey-shuffle convincingly was Ralph Peterson.  Could be him.  Alto isn't ringing any definitive bells for me, but is for real.  Not Garrett -- more individual to my ear (and less beholden to Trane).  Guy is completely putting out there, though.  Certainly a post-Coltrane guy, but getting the utmost out of that.  4/5

track 09 - There's a giant hole in my collection to be filled by stuff like this.  I don't have enough stuff with flute lead.  This is authentic, so it's Latinx musicians doing there thing.  I'm woefully unversed in the genre, though.  Very tight band, the hits really work.  4/5

track 10 - Wow.  Brutish tenor.  Almost sounds like Sonny Criss might sound on tenor.  Got that little lilt in his phrasing like Sonny.  Am I crazy or do I actually know this tune?  Something mighty familiar about that line.  Man!  This is KILLIN'!  5/5

Two things not a surprise:  1) A lot here I don't know, and 2) A lot here worth listening to.  Well played, sir... well played.

[JSngry]

3 hours ago, tkeith said:

track 01 - Can't make out what's being said, here.  Connected to speakers, too.

Cigarette? Nah, you're young enough to not do that. Good choice!

track 02 - Well, certainly sounds like Gil Evans writing, but not sure what it is.  Guy's writing is always interesting.  Probably doesn't hurt that he always works with killin' musicians, either.  Case in point, that certainly sounds like Wayne Shorter.  I know two things:  1) I don't have this, 2) I need this.  4.5/5

I'm a bit surprised that you don't have this, but since you don't, yes, it is Gil (and Wayne,) and yes, you need this!

track 03 - My first thought was Heinz Sauer on tenor, but it's not him -- cleaner sound.  Definitely someone with that European influence.  Maybe Sean Bergin?  No confidence in that guess.  Phrasing has Shepp's influence at times (hence the Sauer connection).  Not sure how often I'd dig this out, but in the right mood, this is excellent.  Non-standard instrumentation.  Getting a slight Frank Carlberg vibe from the piano, but this pianist is more melodic.  This works. 4/5

Not any of those people, but an interesting reaction, nevertheless. You can read up-thread who this is and when it's from. I think that alone makes it interesting, I think a lot of people make generalizations about the leader based on their work up to  a certain point. But a LOT came after that point, such as this.

track 04 - This one is it bit too programatic for my taste.  Interesting composition, stellar musicianship, but not hitting me in the feels. 2.5/5

It's not jazz, if that matters.

track 05 - Odd composition.  Durge-y, quirky, but also musical.  Horn arrangement is pretty straight ahead, but dense.  I don't want to say Gil, again, but what else could it be?  I don't know this.  At 2:45, that line the horns are playing teases Mingus, but SCREAMS Gil.  If I had any guts, I'd make the claim, but I'm struggling to commit.  I mean, if it's Gil, it's likely a band with Knepper, Rehak and company, so... would explain why it works.  3.5/5

You are at once so right - and yet so wrong!!!!

track 06 - Brash tenor.  Cookin'.  Sounds like Jimmy Forrest to me... a LOT.  I'd give time off my life to be able to play like that.  Fearless.  A-HA!  At 2:40, there's a tell -- that's Grant Green, for sure.  Ah!  Okay, this is in my stacks.  Forgot about the drummer (shame on me!).  It's track A4 from this. 4/5

No hammer needed for you - you done got it nailed!!!

track 07 - A little clavé.  No idea who it is, but I really like this.  Drawing full blanks on the tenor.  My guess is these guys are from the 60s.  The feel is all there.  I'm not getting clear pings on who they are, but that pianist could fit easily into one of Bobby Hutcherson's bands (and probably has).  Hand drums feel a bit stiff, but I bet this band caused a little shake in person.  Got to see Tito once, and man, am I ever glad I did.  That music needs to be EXPERIENCED! 4/5

Definitely from the 60s, and the pianist did play on a Bobby record. Congero is the leader! Horns are not totally unknown and have been on some Blu Note records - but...yeah, pretty much unknown to most.

track 08 - I'm sensing a trend!  (just call me Deanna Troi).  Live (boot?).  Has the feel of somebody like Hal Springer.  Pianist has very deliberate phrasing.  Makes me wonder if this is a newer recording.  McCoyisms in the piano, but also some Kenny Barron influence.  Mayhaps a student of the latter?  HEAVY McCoy influence.  So, an alto (sound was so bad, couldn't be sure on the head).  Only guy I've heard approximate that Blakey-shuffle convincingly was Ralph Peterson.  Could be him.  Alto isn't ringing any definitive bells for me, but is for real.  Not Garrett -- more individual to my ear (and less beholden to Trane).  Guy is completely putting out there, though.  Certainly a post-Coltrane guy, but getting the utmost out of that.  4/5

Your IDs are all wrong, but your impressions are all solid! This one is theoretically identifiable, but only if you know one of the names of one or two of the players.

track 09 - There's a giant hole in my collection to be filled by stuff like this.  I don't have enough stuff with flute lead.  This is authentic, so it's Latinx musicians doing there thing.  I'm woefully unversed in the genre, though.  Very tight band, the hits really work.  4/5

There are some Latin players on here. But there's more non-Latin ones (and some names you'll know). But it groove like fuck either way, eh?

track 10 - Wow.  Brutish tenor.  Almost sounds like Sonny Criss might sound on tenor.  Got that little lilt in his phrasing like Sonny.  Am I crazy or do I actually know this tune?  Something mighty familiar about that line.  Man!  This is KILLIN'!  5/5

You're asking two seprate questions, neither of which I can answer  Really not expecting any IDs on this one either, but that's not really the object of any BFTs of mine, not nearly as much as is giving some reactions about the music(s), and that you have done spendidly.

Two things not a surprise:  1) A lot here I don't know, and 2) A lot here worth listening to.  Well played, sir... well played.

You will know it all soon enough. And most of it is readily available for streaming or for actual purchasing!

And again - very acute and sensitive responses, even when not getting the specific IDs. Well heard, sir!

[Joe]

Thanks for this playlist. Most diggable. Notes below, with only a few stabs at IDs. Plenty of typos, I'm sure; begging your pardon in advance.

1 = Shades of Rev. J.M. Gates, but it's not! Nor is it the Lemon Chill man from the old Ballpark at Arlington. The timbre is not purely a product of the recording fidelity. Is there a name for this vocal “effect”. 

2 = Gil Evans for sure, from the INDIVIDUALISM record. He and Creed Taylor made a nice combo; that is, I think Taylor knew how to record Evans and bring out the cinematic aspects of his arrangements. I think this is “The Barbara Song”. I love how unhurried it is, but then you have Gary Peacock adding dramatic tension throughout. Which Wayne tunes in on. It’s almost worth listening to this again as a Shorter - Peacock duet. But then Wayne is doing so much to add even more color to the arrangement. Also, can we talk about how underrated Evans is as a pianist?

3 = A Wayne-ish tenor, and another somewhat sinister theme. I don’t think this is Ran Blake, but the harmonic language feels very Blakean. The tenor is fluid but not facile. The speech-like flourishes are actually quite subtle. George Garzone perhaps? I don’t think its Stephen Riley, but he’s another tenor who’s done something original with a range of influences. Singing! (3:00 mark or so). This is like an obbligato to a vocal only the tenor can hear. I’m surprised by how much momentum this has picked up. Not Blake, I don’t think, but the more I listen, the more this feels like it’s in that Gunther Schuller-NEC orbit. Not a criticism, BTW. So, yeah, Garzone is my guess. I’ve kind of slept on him.

4 = OK, I was not expecting more harp! Or flute, for that matter. I have no idea what it is, but I like this version of Modernism. Could this be a piece by Mel Powell or Hall Overton or another figure who straddled the worlds of jazz and modern classical music? I’m also getting Egisto Macchi vibes here (more so than Debussy or Ravel.) What pieces do I know that are scored for flute, oboe and harp? None, but I’m eager to hear (and learn) more. Also, I’m getting the tryptophan reference now. 

5 = Dimetapp trombones: I’m down. I recognize this song. Jo Stafford? Yes, but dates from a very different era. This is some nicely deconstructed writing … that piercing flute note, the cello weaving in and out. I feel like we are still in the realm of Evans, somehow. Is this Rickie Lee Jones on vocal? I don’t think so. Not your typical chanteuse whoever it is. there’s kind of a hollow, clarinet-like quality to her voice that I find appealing. Not quite husky, but not wispy either. 

6 = Where did this tempo come from? (Oh, we’ve hit the flipside now…)  How the tenor shakes that last note of the theme. This is not Johnny Griffin, but this must be a tenor Griffin listened to very closely. I’m not sure I’m following the drummer, but that’s OK. He can keep doing his thing. Tiny Grimes on guitar? Wait, this is Jimmy Forrest with Grant Green, Harold Mabern, Gene Ramey and Elvin Jones: those Delmark dates. Ok, I need to revisit these. I thought I knew these records pretty well, but I suppose I don’t.

7 = This tune is so familiar… this is going to torture me. It’s a Lee Morgan tune, I think [?]. Horace Silver? Guiro? This bassist is doing some heroic work. Have no idea who the horns are. Is this a track from Sliver ’N Percussion? Well, no, that’s not Horace on piano. But this is a Silver tune. From TOKYO BLUES. (Googling). Holy sh*t. If this is now what I think it is, not a few surprises here … especially in the percussion session. Well, this is a record I probably never would have given a second though until now. Thanks!

8 = Drawing blanks here, but I like how the percussion is integrated into the performance. Tyner-ish piano, but I suspect the saxophonist is the key to this one. Sonny Fortune? Gary Bartz? I’m doubting Bartz, but I’m not sure why. Certainly an alto player who has reckoned with Coltrane. Backbeat asserting itself! How is this the same tune we started with. A journey for sure. 

9 = Gabor Szabo on guitar for sure. Nobody else could get that sound out of an electric guitar. Could be from one of his early Impulses, but something tells me that, keeping with the percussion theme, I should be paying close attention to the drummer. So, rewinding and doing that! Oh, yes, well, tasty to say the least. But stealth tastiness. Case in point: 2:40 forward. Damn. I’m now hearing that Billy Ficca of Television was like the heavy metal version of Chico Hamilton. That is, I’m guessing this is one of the Chico Hamilton groups with Szabo. Which one, and which track, I don’t know. But as soon as all is revealed, I will be revisiting!

10 = Welcome to the bordello! This kind of sax playing is now a kind of historical curiosity, and it’s been ruined by the cliches that have grown up around it, but this track is a nice reminder of what it could express - and how other instruments couldn’t express those same things in the same way. (Although I suppose you could say that about almost any instrument, its the sometimes indeterminate nature of the saxophone’s timbre that makes it uniquely expressive, at least to my ear.) What the heck are those chords the piano player is laying down right before the 2-minute mark? Interesting tenor sound, more pitch up/registered up than I’d expect. I mean, its tenor, but its more Hodges than Webster. And do I hear some Earl Bostic in there, too? Curious to know who this is. Surely not Plas Johnson… but I’m guessing someone who’s not strictly a jazz player.

[JSngry]

15 hours ago, Joe said:

Thanks for this playlist. Most diggable. Notes below, with only a few stabs at IDs. Plenty of typos, I'm sure; begging your pardon in advance.

1 = Shades of Rev. J.M. Gates, but it's not! Nor is it the Lemon Chill man from the old Ballpark at Arlington. The timbre is not purely a product of the recording fidelity. Is there a name for this vocal “effect”. 

Dwarfism, maybe?

2 = Gil Evans for sure, from the INDIVIDUALISM record. He and Creed Taylor made a nice combo; that is, I think Taylor knew how to record Evans and bring out the cinematic aspects of his arrangements. I think this is “The Barbara Song”. I love how unhurried it is, but then you have Gary Peacock adding dramatic tension throughout. Which Wayne tunes in on. It’s almost worth listening to this again as a Shorter - Peacock duet. But then Wayne is doing so much to add even more color to the arrangement. Also, can we talk about how underrated Evans is as a pianist?

Give Phil Ramone credit as well! Otherwise, spot on in every regard. And yes to Gil as pianist, the two duet albums with Konitz are super gem-y.

3 = A Wayne-ish tenor, and another somewhat sinister theme. I don’t think this is Ran Blake, but the harmonic language feels very Blakean. The tenor is fluid but not facile. The speech-like flourishes are actually quite subtle. George Garzone perhaps? I don’t think its Stephen Riley, but he’s another tenor who’s done something original with a range of influences. Singing! (3:00 mark or so). This is like an obbligato to a vocal only the tenor can hear. I’m surprised by how much momentum this has picked up. Not Blake, I don’t think, but the more I listen, the more this feels like it’s in that Gunther Schuller-NEC orbit. Not a criticism, BTW. So, yeah, Garzone is my guess. I’ve kind of slept on him.

Not Blake, not Garzone, nothing NEC...but good observations nonetheless. And do NOT sleep on George Garzone!!!

4 = OK, I was not expecting more harp! Or flute, for that matter. I have no idea what it is, but I like this version of Modernism. Could this be a piece by Mel Powell or Hall Overton or another figure who straddled the worlds of jazz and modern classical music? I’m also getting Egisto Macchi vibes here (more so than Debussy or Ravel.) What pieces do I know that are scored for flute, oboe and harp? None, but I’m eager to hear (and learn) more. Also, I’m getting the tryptophan reference now.

Bassoon, actually, and composed in 1943. A wonderful piece from a wonderful album, and it's a Christmas piece,  so tryptophan still relevant...

5 = Dimetapp trombones: I’m down. I recognize this song. Jo Stafford? Yes, but dates from a very different era. This is some nicely deconstructed writing … that piercing flute note, the cello weaving in and out. I feel like we are still in the realm of Evans, somehow. Is this Rickie Lee Jones on vocal? I don’t think so. Not your typical chanteuse whoever it is. there’s kind of a hollow, clarinet-like quality to her voice that I find appealing. Not quite husky, but not wispy either. 

Jo Stafford did do this one, but that's where the similarity ends. Not Jones, and this singer has to my knowledge not sounded quite like this anywhere else. But you are correct (if not exactly so) about the realm here.

6 = Where did this tempo come from? (Oh, we’ve hit the flipside now…)  How the tenor shakes that last note of the theme. This is not Johnny Griffin, but this must be a tenor Griffin listened to very closely. I’m not sure I’m following the drummer, but that’s OK. He can keep doing his thing. Tiny Grimes on guitar? Wait, this is Jimmy Forrest with Grant Green, Harold Mabern, Gene Ramey and Elvin Jones: those Delmark dates. Ok, I need to revisit these. I thought I knew these records pretty well, but I suppose I don’t.

You are correct on all counts!

7 = This tune is so familiar… this is going to torture me. It’s a Lee Morgan tune, I think [?]. Horace Silver? Guiro? This bassist is doing some heroic work. Have no idea who the horns are. Is this a track from Sliver ’N Percussion? Well, no, that’s not Horace on piano. But this is a Silver tune. From TOKYO BLUES. (Googling). Holy sh*t. If this is now what I think it is, not a few surprises here … especially in the percussion session. Well, this is a record I probably never would have given a second though until now. Thanks!

It sounds as if you have found the correct record. Care to make a firm ID? Be aware, though - the record as a whole is not worth paying full price for....

8 = Drawing blanks here, but I like how the percussion is integrated into the performance. Tyner-ish piano, but I suspect the saxophonist is the key to this one. Sonny Fortune? Gary Bartz? I’m doubting Bartz, but I’m not sure why. Certainly an alto player who has reckoned with Coltrane. Backbeat asserting itself! How is this the same tune we started with. A journey for sure. 

The drummer is the leader. Not a household name by any stretch. Helluva groove, imo!

9 = Gabor Szabo on guitar for sure. Nobody else could get that sound out of an electric guitar. Could be from one of his early Impulses, but something tells me that, keeping with the percussion theme, I should be paying close attention to the drummer. So, rewinding and doing that! Oh, yes, well, tasty to say the least. But stealth tastiness. Case in point: 2:40 forward. Damn. I’m now hearing that Billy Ficca of Television was like the heavy metal version of Chico Hamilton. That is, I’m guessing this is one of the Chico Hamilton groups with Szabo. Which one, and which track, I don’t know. But as soon as all is revealed, I will be revisiting!

Correct, and the CD release of this album is already OOP and starting to fetch higher-ish prices. Chico is not the only percussionist on there either. And the bassist is - or should be - beloved by all here.

10 = Welcome to the bordello! This kind of sax playing is now a kind of historical curiosity, and it’s been ruined by the cliches that have grown up around it, but this track is a nice reminder of what it could express - and how other instruments couldn’t express those same things in the same way. (Although I suppose you could say that about almost any instrument, its the sometimes indeterminate nature of the saxophone’s timbre that makes it uniquely expressive, at least to my ear.) What the heck are those chords the piano player is laying down right before the 2-minute mark? Interesting tenor sound, more pitch up/registered up than I’d expect. I mean, its tenor, but its more Hodges than Webster. And do I hear some Earl Bostic in there, too? Curious to know who this is. Surely not Plas Johnson… but I’m guessing someone who’s not strictly a jazz player.

No Plas, and a - at best - regional cult figure. Not strictly a jazz player but certainly more of one than anything else. A few of the sidemen are familiar to perhaps more specialized aficionados.

Thanks for participating and some very cogent commentary. Have a good nap on Thanksgiving, and don't smoke!