Dmitry Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Wild guess: the alto player looks like Joe Harriott?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIS Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I don't know the personnel, but from the viewing the equipment and the setup, I'd guess that those pictured are part of a larger band from the 40's that featured the alto player, who might also have been the leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I don't know the personnel, but from the viewing the equipment and the setup, I'd guess that those pictured are part of a larger band from the 40's that featured the alto player, who might also have been the leader. From the clothes the musicians have, this MUST be from the sixties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Disagree - unless it's a clarinet deceiving my eyes, isn't that a soprano in the background? In which case I'd say 1960s. Someone with keener fashion history sense than I can address the jacket length and buttons and the trouser tightness(!). Is the drummer wearing a turtleneck? The racial makeup of the band does bring Britain to mind and is another strike against the 1940s. The Val Wilmer photo of Joe Harriott on p.89 of The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Jazz by Brian Case & Stan Britt shows a similar left hand, both in physical shape and position. The tent makes me think festival as do the unused instruments onstage. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I saw Joe Harriot perform once and that picture does remind me of him. However that was almost exactly 40 years ago so-- to say the least- I can't say for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mule Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Obviously a different gig, but the trumpet player kind of looks similar to the guy in the mystery photo as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Disagree - unless it's a clarinet deceiving my eyes, isn't that a soprano in the background? In which case I'd say 1960s. Someone with keener fashion history sense than I can address the jacket length and buttons and the trouser tightness(!). Is the drummer wearing a turtleneck? I'd have to agree, the clothes make me think 60's. I can't see the shoes, but I'm willing to bet they have zippers up the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 (edited) Could be Kenny Wheeler trumpetin', could be Phil Seaman on drums. . . I'd say this is about 1965-6. Edited June 28, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 What makes you guys think it's Harriott [that'd be cool, but Im not sure we got the right guy here]? It's tough to mke out a face on this small photo, but the hair-styles are distinctly different, and I haven't seen a photo of him without a goatee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Dmitry, it's very hard to see if the saxplayer has a goatee on your original photo. The hairline seems to point to Harriott. I stand by my first impression B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Drummer does'nt look like Phil Seamen to me. And who's the bass player? Harriott often had Shake Keane on trumpet, but this is not him. Could it be Jimmy Deuchar? As for time period: Its probably an out door arena (nobody would like those stripes in their room) , and very little jazz was played out doors in the forties, so I guess sixties. Any out doors events in Britain back then. Bracknell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Dmitry, it's very hard to see if the saxplayer has a goatee on your original photo. The hairline seems to point to Harriott. I stand by my first impression B) I think this the only jazz board on which musicians are identified by their hairlines. That's why I love it here. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 another Joe Harriot pic... (sorry, there's only a big list of photo credits in the back of my book, no details about what applies to which pic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Dmitry, it's very hard to see if the saxplayer has a goatee on your original photo. The hairline seems to point to Harriott. I stand by my first impression B) I think this the only jazz board on which musicians are identified by their hairlines. That's why I love it here. Cheers! Deus, I work in photos all day long. You'ld be surprised at the details that are being used for various identifications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 That last one is the Val Wilmer shot I mentioned before. See that left hand? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 That last one is the Val Wilmer shot I mentioned before. See that left hand? just from that left hand, I suspected it was the Wilmer pic you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 I don't think it's Harriott or Seamen or Deuchar or any of the other names mentioned. I'd be very surprised if it originates from the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Dmitry, it's very hard to see if the saxplayer has a goatee on your original photo. The hairline seems to point to Harriott. I stand by my first impression B) Brownie, the striped ceiling in many of these photos looks to be the same. I should receive the photo in question in a few days, then I'll scan it and we'll all see who is who. If it's indeed Harriott I'll be amazed at your expertise, man. But you guys are right, the left hand position on the photo in question and the other photos looks to be the same. Are the hand positions more or less unique to the sax players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Are there potted palms in the background? If so I'd say it was taken in dance hall rather than a festival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 But you guys are right, the left hand position on the photo in question and the other photos looks to be the same. Are the hand positions more or less unique to the sax players? I don't know that, but Harriot's hand strikes me as pretty big with long, not so slender fingers. His pinky looks huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 The stripes are indeed the same in several photos but NOT the one in question. Those are wider. The hand position thing can vary. Certainly when playing above high C# and using the palm keys, you get that turn of the wrist, but what I was seeing was also the shape of the hand. Wouldn't hold up in a court of law. Regarding the UK: if not there then where? A black alto player leader with an all-white group would have been highly unusual in the US. But I can easily imagine it in the UK, supported by discographical evidence of the groups led by Harriott, Dizzy Reece, and others. Another possibility would be a visiting alto player as a single, working with a house band or a pickup band. But I'd still think UK based on the white guys. The tent stripes have definitely been in UK festival photos from the 1960s - but have also been at US ones like Randall's Island. I'll ask some of my UK contacts. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted August 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Well, it appears that this photo will remain a mystery. The ebay seller I bought it from isn't a registered member any more and I'm out of $8. PayPal won't do anything, since the transaction is over 30 days old, and eBay won't do anything because he's no longer registered. I did get his phone # through eBay though. I'm thinking let the sleeping dogs lie for $8. What would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 I'd let the dogs lie and enjoy the mystery aspect of the photo while not giving up my search for true identification.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted August 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 I decided to have some fun with this guy. The $8 admission fee was paid, after all. Cesar, Either prove that the item was sent or you must return $7.98 to my PayPal account. I never received the item you claimed to have sent. I know your name is Cesar Barreto, your address is 405 S Federal Hwy POMPANO BEACH, FL 33062 and your telephone # is 954-783-0871 If you don't refund the money to my PayPal account by tomorrow I will file a claim with the Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC) which is part of the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) as well as with the Pompano Beach Police Department. Have a nice day, Dmitry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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