Michael Fitzgerald Posted January 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I guess a question could be whether what she wrote and how she wrote about her subjects showed respect for the dead (or the living in some cases). Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I AM curious - did she really win a Deems Taylor award, as I read in her obit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 It's fun to mock dead people. They don't get their feelings hurt. same can be said of cats having their heads chopped off by angry cars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 well, I'm not sure what you mean by that - but please drive carefully - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I AM curious - did she really win a Deems Taylor award, as I read in her obit? Yes she did. It's right there on their web page: http://www.ascap.com/deemstaylor/archive.html. Unfortunately, she also wrote some bad things about a (deceased) friend of Chris Albertson that he swears is untrue. So I guess now she has been deemed unworthy of any serious consideration as a writer and her entire life's work is reduced to this mockery. As I said, everyone writes or says some things in their life that upsets others. We all have here, that's for sure. I just think it's wrong to make fun at her death. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Now I'm confused. Was she Deemed Unworthy or Deems Taylored? No matter. Barrett Deems she wasn't! Sweet Deems, Ms. Grouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 well, I'm not sure what you mean by that board history, too lazy to dig it up now. seriously doubting I could find it anyhow. sorry 'bout that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 well, I'm not sure what you mean by that board history, too lazy to dig it up now. seriously doubting I could find it anyhow. sorry 'bout that. http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...7&hl=commercial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I'd forgotten all about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 well, I'm not sure what you mean by that board history, too lazy to dig it up now. seriously doubting I could find it anyhow. sorry 'bout that. http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...7&hl=commercial Now that is good, morbid humor! Of course, I once played them back for a cat lover and the response was not laughter but disgust. It is pretty realistic looking. Later, Kevin If you hadn't nailed the parrot to the perch, it'd be pushing up the daiseys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 (edited) Now that is good, morbid humor! Well then, just consider Leslie Gourse to be a cat, and this thread to be a Sportka. It all comes out even that way! Edited January 7, 2005 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Breshnahan: "Unfortunately, she also wrote some bad things about a (deceased) friend of Chris Albertson that he swears is untrue." Well, that's news to me. Who did she write about--please give details. Breshnahan: "So I guess now she has been deemed unworthy of any serious consideration as a writer and her entire life's work is reduced to this mockery." I guess you haven't read her drivel, have you, Kevin? Either that or you need a course in jazz history--not to mention English. Gourse was a hack writer who threw things together without any regard to accuracy. Her books were rife with serious, avoidable mistakes, omissions, etc.That, for your information, is why it is impossible for anyone but the totally uninformed to take her seriously. As for making a mockery? Well, she made a mockery of jazz and, in the process, gave a bad rep to the field of jazz journalism. The response you see here is actually of her own making--if you don't want people to make light of your work after you've gone, do something positive while you're here. It's very simple, Kevin. Now about this deceased friend of mine, who was it? what did she write? BTW, if she won the Deems Taylor Award, it does not speak well for ASCAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Every April fool's day, I've toyed with the idea of posting a thread entitled 'Wynton Marsalis RIP' just to see how people react. I'd have to make it plausible, though. I always get stuck at the line '... died tragically yesterday, crushed by the weight of his own self-importance'. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Breshnahan: "Unfortunately, she also wrote some bad things about a (deceased) friend of Chris Albertson that he swears is untrue."Well, that's news to me. Who did she write about--please give details. Well then, I stand corrected. I thought she was the one who had bad things to say about your friend Timme Rosencrantz in one of her bios? So, then... all of this joking around is simply because you don't like her writing? That's even more twisted. She doesn't deserve this for bad writing. BTW, why did Jazz Times vote her Monk bio as best bio one year? If it was that bad, it shouldn't have won anything. Later, kevin PS Chris: It's Bresnahan. I don't go calling you Albertshone all the time. I would almost think it's on purpose since my name is right there in front of you. There are some who twist people's name around when they get arguing... you wouldn't want to be compared to that person, would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I haven't posted here because it's hard to know what to say really--someone dies whose work you had zero respect for. Probably best not to say anything. The knocks directed against Gourse's writing are, sadly, entirely accurate. I'm not sure this is the best occasion to hash this out, though. I once patronized a Toronto bookstore which was noted for its owner's cultivating a large & carefully stocked jazz-book section (Writers & Co). I asked the owner if Gourse's Monk bio was worth getting & he recommended it (a $50 book). Managed to read about 2/3rds of it & gave up. A frightful book, & lazy too (most spectacularly so in her habit of reproducing source newspaper articles at enormous length to pad the book). It's still here somewhere. I never went back to that bookstore again, & couldn't but feel some schadenfreude when it closed. I still see the owner at concerts & all I can think of is that stupid book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 If it was that bad, it shouldn't have won anything. Yes, EXACTLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 If it was that bad, it shouldn't have won anything. Yes, EXACTLY. No, not exactly... exactly, it did win that award. Look, I've never read it, and don't plan to read it, but obviously enough people read it to deem it worthy of an honor. And, being JazzTimes, it was voted by a group of her peers. Quite frankly, using newspaper clippings is better than making shit up, like some authors do. In my experience, old newspaper clippings can be better at reporting factual happenings than some of the participant's recollections. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Linda Dahl was the one who did her best to smear Timme's name (in her Mary Lou Williams book). She also deliberately misquoted me in order to support her odd agenda. As far as I know, Linda is still among the living--so much for your assumption that I waited until fate stopped Gourse from spewing out more crap. To correct another of your assumptions, I thought she was a hack writer, but even bad prose may be forgiven if it is put to good use. Unfortunately, Gourse not only was a bad writer (and I can identify with that), she also did not have anything to say that hadn't already been better expressed by others. Now, please re-read your posts and see who's "twisted." Surely, you are not serious when you give such weight to a Jazz Times "Best of the Year" choice? Read the book and see if you agree with JT. Damn, whatever year that was must have been a bad one for jazz publishing! BTW, your misspelling of Timme's name is an outrageous affront to his memory. There are some who twist people's name around when they get arguing... you wouldn't want to be compared to that person, would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 BTW, your misspelling of Timme's name is an outrageous affront to his memory. There are some who twist people's name around when they get arguing... you wouldn't want to be compared to that person, would you? Here we go off on a tangent, but, whatever... it beats the heck out of smearing someone who just died. Check out http://www.sepiajazz.citymax.com/page/page/800704.htm and go correct them if Timme's name is spelled wrong. They imply it can be Timme or Timmie. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 (edited) They are wrong on both counts. It's Timme Rosenkrantz. I should know, we were friends for many years, going back to my Copenhagen days, and we rented an apartment together here in NYC. Nice photo of him and Basie.. Edited January 7, 2005 by Christiern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Kevin - I don't think the levity and negativity here is simply because she wrote something bad about a friend of Chris's - in truth she was one of the worst writers I've ever read, was quite ignorant about jazz and jazz history, and, personally, a bit obnoxious to boot (I had 3 or 4 encounters, each weirder than the last; on two of those she called me for contacts and than was stragely un-gracious, to say the least) - I suspect many here are reflecting on a similar type of history - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Yes, Allen, let's say--to be polite--that she was somewhat unpolished. B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Wait - Jazz Times can't be trusted? They gave MY book a good review - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 They probably gave mine a good one, too--so don't feel bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 well, maybe if should have been spelled Timmy - and that might explain, Chris, why he never got his mail - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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