JSngry Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 Mainstream was a legit label, but that does not mean that Bob Shad was not above the usual practices of the time, if you know what I mean. I think the quest is who was Ellen? R would be Robert, right? I'm looking at a few labels of the Sittin' In With label 78s, and they don't list writing credits, just publishing. yeah, look at this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) "Robert Ellen" was a writing alias used by Bob Shad. Also news to me, Judd Apatow is Shad's grandson. Edited October 24, 2022 by sonnymax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 Shad did not have a good reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 2 hours ago, sonnymax said: "Robert Ellen" was a writing alias used by Bob Shad. Figured as much, do you have an actual source for that? Who was "Ellen"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, JSngry said: Figured as much, do you have an actual source for that? Who was "Ellen"? https://www.discogs.com/artist/1093403-Robert-Ellen http://www.deaddisc.com/songs/Junco_Partner.htm https://music.metason.net/artistinfo?name=Bob%20Shad there's plenty of others. I couldn't find any reference to "Ellen", but I did learn his real name was Abraham Shadrinsky. Edited October 24, 2022 by sonnymax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 Cool, thanks! Now I can back it up with something other than the proverbial "some guy on the internet" citation, lol! I still wonder who Ellen was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Maybe we should ask Judd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 I doubt that Shad wrote any of those, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 The 3 Quinichette tracks are properly credited here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 King Oliver wrote Birdland Jump? Does that DCC side credit 5he original label or at least producer anywhere, or is it just hey, look what we found!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) Found the brochure on Sittin' In With label - edited by the Blues Unlimited Magazine.It was inded Bob Shad's label, who started with Jazz on it but soon released more Blues and R & B because of the sales figures. He had the rights to the recordings, but definitely did not care about proper discographical details - but who did among those indie producers back then? 9 hours ago, JSngry said: King Oliver wrote Birdland Jump? On the Xanadu LP and Ocium CD reissues it is credited to Quinichette. Edited October 25, 2022 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Cannot find a pic of the 78 rpm issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 23 hours ago, mikeweil said: On the original Jazz Selection 78s of the Hardee recordings, all of the tunes are attributed to Hardee: And yet when Shad issued it on his Jax label, it was then written by Ellen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Here's the original, on Sittin' In Wth: Jazz Selection was a French label. Go figure. 2 hours ago, mikeweil said: Cannot find a pic of the 78 rpm issue. Paul Quinichette did not write "You Belong To Me", that's a straight-up pop song that was properly credited by Shad! Paul Quinichette Quintet - You Belong to Me - YouTube We've all heard that one...Jo Stafford, was it? Somebody had a hit with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 It's properly credited here - I knew this resource existed, but had no time to look after it this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) I just listened to the two takes (denoted as parts) on the Ocium CD and the shorter take (playing time is correct!) on the Xanadu LP, and to me they all sound ilke three different takes! Starts with differences in the intros to way the takes end. The longer ones have a repeated riff while the shorter has a Basie type ending. Quinicette starts and endsdhissolos with different phrases. I wonder shat the other tunes reveal. Birdland Jump - same finding. Three different takes. Edited October 27, 2022 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 Sleepy Time Gal - no piano solo on "part 2". Different endings, as if there was a misunderstanding between Quinichette and Drew on the latter, maybe because Lady Q played two more chorusses. Slightly different tempos. The take on the Xanadu LP is the same as part 1, to these ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 Will have to check the fourth track, You Belong To Me, tomorrow, had to leave for work, but my finding seem to coincide with Jan Evensmo's. http://www.jazzarcheology.com/paul-quinichette/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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