Swinging Swede

Chronological Classics

383 posts in this topic

There was a long thread about this label at a certain other board, and if it ever comes back, here is the link to it:

Jazz Chronological Classics

But time moves on, as do the Classics releases, so let’s continue here.

Here are the titles in the April batch:

1295 Dexter Gordon 1947-1952

1296 Sarah Vaughan 1951-1952

1297 Benny Carter 1948-1952

1298 Miff Mole 1928-1937

1299 Stan Getz 1951

Blues & Rhythm series:

5058 Big Jay McNeely 1951-1952

5059 Little Miss Cornshucks 1947-1951

Edited by Swinging Swede

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I doubt it will ever come back at BN:s site, but here it is, starting with part 1:

Author Topic: Jazz Chronological Classics

Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 22, 2000 03:06 AM

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I've recently become aware of this astonishing label. For years I've seen their discs around but assumed they were cheapo-air shots etc. Recommendations on this board made me go out and buy a few and I have been hugely impressed.

I like the decision not to include alternate takes (these seem to be readily available on other labels for the enthusiast who enjoys listening at that close a level). The strictly chronological approach can produce some odd arrangements - Stardust Part 2 before Stardust Part 1 on the Mary Lou Williams 1944 disc for example. Soundwise, they've proved much better than I'd anticipated given some adverse references in the Penguin guide. Not up to the standard of some other labels but perfectly listenable (depending on the source discs of course).

I also picked up a catalogue the other day which is a gold mine in itself - full track list for discs, personel, indications of vocal tracks etc. If you are trying to follow the work of a particular artist its a marvellous way of getting a full track listing.

I'm sure there are many of you who know this series well. Any recommendations, warnings etc?

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

philip

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Member # 405

posted January 22, 2000 05:46 AM

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Bev, like you I have been wary of this label because of the comments in the Penguin guide over transfer quality, etc. The Jimmie Lunceford 1930-34 disc was a disappointment.

The best known track, "White Heat", seems to have been transferred from an old electronically enhanced LP, but then I am a stickler for decent sound. The rest of that disc seems average, lacking the sparkle one expects from John RT Davies.

It is probably true to say that my perfectionism has reduced my access to earlier Jazz classics...

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Posts: 1657 | From: Derbyshire, UK | Registered: Sep 1999 | IP: Logged

Chris Albertson

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Member # 551

posted January 22, 2000 06:14 AM

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Apropos sound quality and collectors.

In the early Seventies, when I produced the complete Bessie Smith LP reissue for Columbia, engineer Larry Hiller and I spent 2 1/2 years working (5 nights a week) on the sound. It paid off, for (using a new method devised after much experimentation by Larry) we were able to virtually eliminate the surface noise.

This, we thought, ought to pleaee the collectors. We were wrong. A group of them, known as the Blues Mafia, wrote me a letter bemoaning the absence of surface noise! I guess you can't please everybody. Larry was very happy to receive his Grammy, however.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 22, 2000 09:53 AM

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I can believe it, Chris! Your anecdote made me chuckle.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Stefan Wood

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Member # 188

posted January 22, 2000 06:19 PM

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Bev, regarding the Classics, label, I agree that they are a good reissue company. I too just started to buy their label, starting with Don Byas and Howard McGhee, and am now working on Coleman Hawkins (thanks to the bboard group's suggestions). As much as I like reissues, there have been times where I hate the repetition of hearing two, three, even four versions of the same song in a row. So far, the Classics cds that I have bought are good sounding and have plently of tracks to fill up a cd. I wish they could have more extensive liner notes, but that's a minor issue. The best is that they have an extensive catalog of pre 1950 jazz artists -- enough to browse and explore. I'm looking at Charlie Shavers next.....

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Posts: 1255 | From: Chevy Chase, Maryland USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 23, 2000 03:38 AM

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They have the advantage that they are so far down the line of cataloguing pre-1950. A few weeks back I bought the Frog McKinney Cotton Pickers discs. These are superb transfers

(like the JSP Armstrongs), better than Classics. However, its much harder to work a coherent collection together. Not being an audiophile I find the Classics discs fine.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Jason Drake

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Member # 602

posted January 24, 2000 01:28 AM

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I have just started to get into this label's output. Like other's I thought it was just a cheapo deal (partly due to the covers, which it has to be said aren't that hot) but am now finding it a great source of pre-50's jazz.

I'm wondering if, as the 50 year copyright expiration time line passes through the years 1950, 1951 etc, they might even start to re-issue some of the classic BN stuff ? Once the copyright has expired do they need BN's approval to do this ?

The last time I was in Ray's Jazz Shop, in London, they had a complete wall display dedicated to the label and it seemed pretty well stocked. I think that Lon would have been in seventh heaven!

I was wondering how much this label costs in the US. The US online sites seem to charge high prices for them. If someone gives me an

example I'll compare it to some of the euro sites, which might prove cheaper even with shipping costs.

Bev, if you want a recommendation, I'm listening to #648 Horace Henderson 1940, which is v. good. He seems to have been overshadowed by his brother, Fletcher, which, on the evidence of this disc, is unfair. It swings very nicely.

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Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 24, 2000 05:18 AM

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I think the covers are quite nice. Like 78 rpm labels, with a photo.

These cost retail in the stores about 15.99 US. You can usually get them for about 12.99 to 13.99.

Classics ALREADY have been reissuing Blue Note sides; check out the Ike Quebec disc, among others.

I find that the latest releases sound quite nice, compared to the earlier ones, but none are quite as good as the Davies transfers. Those McKinneys on Frog are da bomb.

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Posts: 10027 | From: Austin, TX USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

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Member # 197

posted January 24, 2000 05:33 AM

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Jason, Classics has already issued a lot of BN stuff, mostly from the pre-bop era, like Sidney Bechet, Edmond Hall, James P. Johnson etc., but also the McGhee/Navarro Boptet session from 1948 on "Howard McGhee 1948".

So you're right, there's nothing stopping them as the years roll on. If there is an unreissued session from the 50's you want to have, you just have to count the years that are left until Classics (or some other label) can reissue it. Of course they have no access to the BN vaults, so they can only take the best source available.

And yes, the Horace Henderson set is nice. Many have considered him to be more advanced both as pianist and as arranger, but he never gained his brother's fame. I've also read that he detested being known only for being Fletcher's brother. Don't forget the great session made in 1933 under his name, where he fronted his brother's orchestra. It's out on "Coleman Hawkins 1929-1934".

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John L

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Member # 123

posted January 24, 2000 08:27 AM

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Chronological Classics is doing a great service issuing these all of these sides, as the labels themselves do not show much interest.

Chris A: That's a great story about surface noise. Maybe it is the producers of the original records that feel so strongly. After all, they are getting so many composer royalties on blues compositions for which the surface noise was their only contribution!

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Posts: 1200 | From: Capital of world madness DC | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Jason Drake

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Member # 602

posted January 24, 2000 09:55 AM

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This label can be got cheaply (for EU residents) from www.boxman.com. They range from 7 usd to 11 usd, with shipping about 3-4 usd. The site is terribly laid out and it can take a while for them to ship, but at 7 usd per disc it seems worthwhile. For some reason, non-EU people are forced to use a different 'browser' and the prices seem to be higher. But it's so hard to use that I have to say I've run out of patience trying to do a proper price comparison.

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Posts: 280 | From: London, England | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 24, 2000 10:41 AM

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I've used Boxman for a couple of Classics discs - they're a bit slow but deliver at good prices. I agree their layout is hopeless but given the prices worth persevering. I think I'll use them for the Spirituals to Swing discs in the near future.

The Classics discs covering Blue Note I look forward to are the ones that will cover the 'Amazing Bud Powell' sessions. I bought disc one very ealy in my collecting days and have found the alternate takes infuriating - 3 of Un Poco Loco! Now I appreciate that the real Bud fan and the jazz historian want the lot but I could have done with a one disc distillation. I've never bought the two Monk records for this reason although I have a Blue Note compilation that takes individual songs with no alternates.

I came across the Classics wall display in Rays a couple of weeks back, Jason, and walked out £70 poorer. It could have been much worse!

As I'm just starting to investigate Fletcher Henderson Horace may be a bit further off for me. I did pick up the first Teddy Wilson disc which has a mass of Billie Holiday vocals that are not on the Columbia vinyl I bought in the early 80s including two wonders in 'What a Little Moonlight Can Do' and 'Miss Brown to You.' I think I might pursue the Wilson and Holiday issues as a way of converting my Holidays to CD.

Any views on the Classics Nat Cole discs?

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 24, 2000 11:06 AM

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The first few Cole discs in the series reissue material that I have found on cd nowhere else. . .After that I have lost interest in them, as I have all the material elsewhere (I am one of those with the Cole Mosaic.) But this is an excellent series of recordings, the Cole ones, and worth following. . . .

I am one of those Powell nuts, but I noticed yesterday that Indigo has a great collection of Powell called "Early Powell" that has sides with Cootie Williams (not to be missed) and the earliest under his own name. All the Indigoes I have heard have had good sound, so that should be a low budget possiblity for you.

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Anthony

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posted January 24, 2000 03:39 PM

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Bev,

I wouldn't ignore the Blue Note Monk alternates for long. In fact "alternates" is probably not an appropriate term in this case, as these are more like variations. Some of the heads are given completely different treatments than they are given in the master takes. Just something to consider.

Anthony

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Chris Albertson

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Member # 551

posted January 24, 2000 07:36 PM

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Re your tongue-in-cheek surface noise theory, John L., that's funny, but, sadly, not so distant from the truth.

Actually, the guy who headed up the Blues Mafia was the late Nick Perls, whose label, Yazoo, you may have come across.

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John L

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Member # 123

posted January 25, 2000 01:03 AM

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Yes, I know the label well. But I don't know Nick Perls.

At any rate, you did a superb job with the Bessie Smith collection, with the sound and the liner notes.

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Jason Drake

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Member # 602

posted January 25, 2000 01:32 AM

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Bev, where did you get the catalogue from ?

I've tried to find a website for them but no luck.

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Posts: 280 | From: London, England | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

Scott Lasser

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Member # 185

posted January 25, 2000 09:57 AM

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All --

I bought the early releases from that label from our Allegro sales rep... and they sold astonishingly well! (Nice thing about Tower: they let me indulge myself.)

I'm pretty sure you can find a complete listing of the series through Allegro, if not an entire catalog.

Scott Lasser

P.S. The J.C. Higginbotham is terrific.

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Posts: 1225 | From: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 25, 2000 10:51 AM

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Jason, I got mine from Jumbo Records in Leeds. I suspect you'd need to contact a store that has a fair selection.

There's a place in Norwich called Jazz 'n' Blues Records advertising in this months Jazz Review about its ability to supply all Classics at £8.50 or 6 for £50

(or, is it wittily says, "If you are rich you can have all 600 for £4 500"). You might get a catalogue from them. Their telephone is 01603 467777 (email Jazzjerry@aol.com). I've never used them so I'm not sure what they are like.

If you go into www.CDNow.com and look up Jazz Chronological Classics under 'label' you'll get an alphabet. Click on the letter you're after and you'll have the available names and can link on to a full listing of tracks. Not quite as nice as a catalogue you can ring to your hearts content but useful...

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

marvin g

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Member # 470

posted January 25, 2000 04:32 PM

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Yes I have quite a few of those Classics CD's especially the neglected swing bands. I've been looking for early stuff by Buddy Johnson,Helen Humes,Jimmy Luncford.Chick Webb minus Ella,Teddy Wilson minus Billie,Cab Calloway and a few other Harlemites of that era.

I too like those covers it really fits the era of the music.

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Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 26, 2000 05:49 AM

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Marv, if you see it grab the Hep Records cd of Chick Webb, or the Decca cd; these reissue early Webb material without Ella. Fine stuff. Also the two Chronologicals under Webb's name just about reissue all the sides without Ella.

The Hep Records series on Teddy Wilson is excellent and reissue chronologically all the sides with and without Billie in the best sound I have heard, including piano solos. This is marvelous music, well presented on cd.

I have not bought any of the Calloway Chronological Classics, but imagine that they are a good way to travel through the early material. The two items under Cab's name in the Best of the Big Band series from Columbia, if still in print, are good choices, although from the later thirties and early forties. . . .

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alankin

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Member # 220

posted January 30, 2000 02:58 PM

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I noticed that CyberMusicSurplus has a couple dozen Chronological Classics for 7.99.

Here are the titles:

ALIX COMBELLE 1940-1941

ALIX COMBELLE 1942-1943

BESSIE SMITH 1925-1927

BLUE LU BARKER 1938-1939

BOOTS & HIS BUDDIES 1937-1938.

EDDIE "LOCKJAW" DAVIS 1946-1947.

ERROLL GARNER 1944, VOL 2

FATS WALLER 1935, VOL 2

GARLAND WILSON 1931-1938

JAMES P JOHNSON 1928-1938

JOE MARSALA 1936-1942

MIDGE WILLIAMS 1937-1938

MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND 1936-1937.

PUTNEY DANDRIDGE 1936

RICHARD M JONES 1923-1927

RICHARD M JONES 1927-1944

SIDNEY BECHET 1941-1944

STAN KENTON 1947

TEDDY HILL 1935-1937

TOMMY DORSEY & HIS ORCH 1936

WILLIE LEWIS 1936-1938

WILLIE LEWIS 1941

Some well-known people & some I've never heard of. Comments, anyone?

The site is--CyberMusicSurplus

Alan go.to/jazzmatazz

[This message has been edited by alankin (edited January 30, 2000).]

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Swinging Swede

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Member # 197

posted January 30, 2000 06:25 PM

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Some quick notes here. I will go into more length on some of the names in my upcoming Swing era post(s) I promised Bev.

ALIX COMBELLE

The French Coleman Hawkins, who sometimes played great but sometimes got a bit silly in his solos. The two volumes listed mostly contain big band tracks recorded during the German occupation. Actually, as far as I remember, I thought the first volume ”1935-1940” (not on this list) was the best.

BESSIE SMITH

The most famous blues singer during the twenties, but you knew that already.

BLUE LU BARKER

Singer who I think was married to guitarist Danny Barker. I haven’t heard this one myself, but from what I’ve read she was just a so-so singer, but the sessions include many wellknown swing musicians.

BOOTS & HIS BUDDIES

Unlike most other territory bands, this Texas-based swing orchestra recorded quite a bit. This is the second of two volumes. One session is unfortunately marred by a trumpet section badly out of tune, but otherwise this was a pretty good band, well worth checking out.

EDDIE ”LOCKJAW” DAVIS

His first recordings. Has the famous sides with Fats Navarro, plus some rare sessions for obscure labels. A good buy.

ERROLL GARNER

Well worth getting for the ten track session that was his commercial debut. The other selections are from Timme Rosenkranz’s apartment sessions, that actually first were issued on Blue Note in the early 50’s, but which unfortunately have very substandard sound.

FATS WALLER

22 tracks with his popular Rhythm, which recorded an unbelievable amount of numbers 1934-42. Remember that there are several lables that have issued the complete Rhythm recordings, of which Classics is one.

GARLAND WILSON

American pianist, whom Aric wouldn’t have liked, if you know what I mean... He was discovered by John Hammond but settled in Europe in 1932. Mostly solos, the value of which has been debated. Some have considered him one of the great jazz pianists, others not so.

JAMES P. JOHNSON

The second of Classics’ Johnson Cds mostly has pre-Depression recordings, both piano solos and small bands with many famous names. Also has the Pee Wee Russell’s Rhythmmakers session from 1938 (including Freddie Greene’s only recorded solo!). A very interesting set.

JOE MARSALA

Clarinetist Joe Marsala for many years led the house band at the Hickory House, where many famous musicians used to come to jam. These recordings basically are small band swing with a Condon touch. One interesting thing is the use of harp on some of the sessions, another that these sessions include the first recordings of two great drummers, Buddy Rich and Shelly Manne! Recommended.

MIDGE WILLIAMS

Singer about whom little is known. There are a lot of good swing musicians backing her though, including early versions of what would become the John Kirby Sextet.

MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND

Great early swing big band, unduly obscure today because of its anonymous name. In this volume, the last of five, Lucky Millinder was the leader, and the musicians include Henry ”Red” Allen, Charlie Shavers and Harry ”Sweets” Edison on trumpets, J.C. Higginbotham and Wilbur de Paris on trombones, Tab Smith and Joe Garland on reeds, Edgar Hayes and Billy Kyle on piano, Lawrence Lucie and Danny Barker on guitar, and future Kirby drummer O’Neil Spencer. Essential!

PUTNEY DANDRIDGE

One of the many Fats Waller clones record companies tried to come up with in the mid-30’s, in the wake of the huge success of Waller’s Victor recordings. Dandridge, who recorded for Vocalion, was no Waller, but his recordings have many great sidemen. This volume has Teddy Wilson, Cozy Cole, Henry ”Red” Allen, Joe Marsala, Clyde Hart, Doc Cheatham and Sidney Catlett among others. The first volume, btw, has Roy Eldridge, Chu Berry and Buster Bailey among others.

RICHARD M. JONES

Jones may today be best remembered for having been the producer of Louis Armstrong’s Hot Five and Hot Seven recordings, but he was actually a good pianist in his own right, who recorded many sessions in the 20’s. For lovers of 20’s jazz these two volumes offer many little-known sessions to check out. The latter disc also has a few scattered later sessions, including a rare non-Basie appearance by Herschel Evans!

SIDNEY BECHET

This volume has his last two Victor sessions from 1941, a V-Disc session from 1943, a Blue Note session from 1944 (Including ”Blue Horizon”) and a 1944 session under pianist Cliff Jackson’s name.

STAN KENTON

Kenton’s 40’s recordings are his greatest in my opinion. This volume has a mixture of ‘progressive jazz’, swinging charts like ”Capitol Punishment” and ”Minor Riff”, and vocal features for June Christy. Essential in one form or another.

TEDDY HILL

This set has the complete recordings of this big band, which toured Europe in 1937. The first session has Roy Eldridge and Chu Berry, and the last has the first recorded solo by Dizzy Gillespie! Other musicians include Dickie Wells and Russell Procope. Need I say more?

TOMMY DORSEY

Although TD’s greatest days lay ahead, this early incarnation of his big band is not without interest. Although most of the tracks are vocals, there are also several instrumentals in a Bob-Crosbyish dixieland style, later totally abandoned by Dorsey. The orchestra also had a great asset in tenorist Bud Freeman, the only pre-Prez tenorist to come up with an original style not dependent on Coleman Hawkins. TD himself was a master trombonist, and these recordings are not at all as square as some detractors would have you belive.

WILLIE LEWIS

This was a most unusual American big band, in that all its recordings were made in Europe! Among the sidemen were Bill Coleman on trumpet and Herman Chittison on piano. There is also a first volume ”1932-1936”, which has a session where Benny Carter sits in and also contributes six arrangements. Well worth checking out for the swing fan.

Mostly lesser-known entries in the Classics catalogue there, but a lot of good music still!

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alankin

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Member # 220

posted January 30, 2000 06:53 PM

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Thanks for the detailed information! I'm impressed by how much people know about the music.

I'll probably try a few of these titles. (To my wallet's displeasure.)

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Swinging Swede

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Member # 197

posted January 30, 2000 07:14 PM

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Yeah, jazz interest and wallets don't go well together! I've noticed that too!

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Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 30, 2000 07:20 PM

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That Boots and his Buddies will surprise you. The second volume is disappointing, mainly because the first volume is AMAZING. San Antonio band, playing and swinging like mad.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 31, 2000 10:30 AM

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Looking forward to your Swing post, Swede. The last one was invaluable.

Have picked up three Teddy Wilson Classics of late which are so good! I've known the Holiday stuff for years but have been totally won over by the other stuff on these discs. I could easily become obsessional on Wilson, I think. Any comments on his later music? What's the duo with Lester Young from the 50s like? I've always stayed clear due to Young's reputation as being unreliable in the 50s.

Also, Fats Waller. I bought a great compilation before Xmas and someone mentioned then I'd want more. Yes, you were right. What period is best to start in? I'm not sure whether to investigate the RCA discs or go with the Classics.

And a curio. At the end of the Chu Berry Classics disc there are two tunes broken into part 1 and 2; both last for 2 minutes for each part and are cut off in their prime - no ending. It sounds as if the playing was recorded on two machines with a slight overlap. What was this all about?

While we're at it I've always loved the sound of 40's music since first hearing Parker. Any recommendations on the Don Byas (someone drew my attention to a 1945 recording of Laura) and Howard McGhee front? And Lucky Thompson? I've heard them all in passing on other peoples discs and been impressed. And who should I be listening to guitar-wise from this period? I know a lot of Christian and would put 'Swing to Bop' somewhere near the top of all time favourite pieces. What's comparable?

Sorry. That's abou 8,000 questions in one post. I'd better go and mark some exam papers!

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted January 31, 2000 11:04 AM

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Well, I think that the Teddy Wilson and Lester Young quartet date on Verve is among the finest of Pres' Verve work; any band with Ted, Pres, Gene Ramey and Jo Jones is going to have a balance of fine moments.

I have all the Chronological Classics of Don Byas, and can recommend each and every one. The latest two released are exceptionally nice, but they are all excellent. Some of the best sides are on a Savoy/Denon cd that is not too hard to find still: Jam Party.

I believe I told you that you would be clamoring for more Fats Waller. The RCA series of discs are excellent; the sound is better than most of the Classics I think, and there are liner notes which are quite useful. However, in typical mysteriousness, not all volumes are in print. I actually have this material in the fourteen (!) volumes of Fats Waller and his Rhythm on King Jazz, recommended if you can find them, and the piano solos on RCA Bluebird, and a few other discs here and there (including the great material recorded in London which is on the DRG label.)

As for guitar. . . A lot of what I would recommend is not easy to find. The forties and early fifties Carl Kress sides on Capitol I really really like, but they are not to my knowledge on cd except in the Capitol Mosaic box. And I think you would like the forties and early fifties sides of T-bone Walker, who I think of as jazz but most of the world claims as blues; he is one of my most favorite guitarists of this period, and other favorites are John Collins, Tiny Grimes, and the two Moore brothers, Oscar who played with the Nat King Cole Trio, and Johnny who was the leader of Johnny Moore and the Three Blazers, which featured Charles Brown on piano and vocals. Also a favorite of mine is Billy Bauer's work with the Lennie Tristano groups and those of Tristanoites. . . .

[This message has been edited by Lon Armstrong (edited January 31, 2000).]

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Posts: 10027 | From: Austin, TX USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Chris Albertson

Member

Member # 551

posted January 31, 2000 03:58 PM

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Alankin,

Here are just a few notes to supplement the excellent information fornished by the Swinging Swede.

SS, I hope you don't mind some input from a Dane

ALIX COMBELLE

He also led a memorable 1935 session with the Quintet of the Hot Club of France (Grappelli, Reinhardt,et al). And I agree, the 1937-40 sides on the Swing label are his best.

BESSIE SMITH I have to agree with the Swinging Swede--she was not just great, she was the greatest of the so-called "classic" blues singers.

BLUE LU BARKER

Yes, she was married to guitarist Danny Barker. Not a bad singer, actually, and she had a great sense of humor (as did Danny). Her best known tune is "Don't You Get Me High." Her accompanists included Henry Red Allen, Benny Carter, Buster Bailey, Lil Armstrong, Chu Berry, and Sammy Price.

BOOTS & HIS BUDDIES

Led by Boots Douglas--a good but not exceptional territory band that made a series of Bluebird sessions in San Antonio, Texas, between1935 and 38.

EDDIE ”LOCKJAW” DAVIS

Lockjaw also recorded several tenor duo albums with Johnny Griffin for Prestige (Lockjaw's label) and Riverside (Johnny's label), and worked intermittently with the Basie band for 20 years.

ERROLL GARNER

Considering the enormous volume of recordings that followed, these early sessions have more historical value than anything else. BTW, Timme and I used to share an apartment in New York--he had more private Garner recordings than were issued by BN.

FATS WALLER

Allthe Victor recordings are available, so here technical quality should be considered.

GARLAND WILSON

His 1931 solo sessions were also John Hammond's first. When John learned that Garland was gay, he distanced himself from him. Garland recorded in London and Paris between 1932 and 1938. Not a bad pianist

JAMES P. JOHNSON

Johnson was the father of the Harlem stride piano style. Fats Waller was his disciple, and he--in turn, inspired Basie. Johnson was also Bessie Smith's favorite pianist.

JOE MARSALA

I have nothing to add here. He was a capable clarinetist who often surrounded himself with better musicians.

MIDGE WILLIAMS

Midge was probably best known for her years with Louis Armstrong's orchestra. She performed extensively in Asia, including Shanghai and Tokyo, during the early Thirties (recording a couple of tunes in Japanese). Later, back in the US, she hit the road with Fats Waller.

MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND

I highly recommend these recordings. BTW, guitarist Lawrence Lucie is still performing (he's at the Blue Note, NYC, tonight 1/31/00).

PUTNEY DANDRIDGE

He was also Bill "Bojangles" Robinson's accompanist for awhile.

RICHARD M. JONES

Jones was Okeh's head of race records, but Lil Armstrong told me that he didn't actually produce the Hot Five and Hot Seven sessions.

SIDNEY BECHET

I have never heard a bad Bechet recording.

STAN KENTON

Again, I agree with the my fellow Scandinavian; Kenton’s 40’s Capitol recordings are his best. As a matter of fact, around 1948-8 I used to take a ferry to Malmö (Sweden) from Copenhagen, just to buy coffee, chocolate, Nellie Lutcher, and Kenton.

TEDDY HILL

He used to be a member of Bessie Smith's touring band, but he made his name on the cutting edge of bop.

TOMMY DORSEY

Surely you had heard of him, right?

WILLIE LEWIS

He was a member of the interesting Sam Wooding big band that played in Berlin in 1925, and he toured with Sam after that, acquiring a taste for Europe. I recall buying a 78rpm on Elite Special (a Swiss label) by "Williw Lewis Und Sein Niggerband"!!

[This message has been edited by Chris Albertson (edited January 31, 2000).]

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alankin

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Member # 220

posted January 31, 2000 04:35 PM

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Thanks, Chris!

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marvin g

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Member # 470

posted January 31, 2000 06:51 PM

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I've been eyeballing the Clarence Williams Classics any suggestions??

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Edward

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Member # 73

posted February 01, 2000 09:25 AM

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Marvin, you might be better off getting the Clarence Williams material presented on the two Frog ("Dreaming the Hours Away" and "Whoop It Up") and the three Collector's Classics ("Vol.1 1927-28", "Vol.2 1928", and "Vol.3 1929-30") CDs. John R.T. Davies remastered all of these discs, and I'm sure that their sound quality beats Chronological Classics'. The two Frog CDs cover (all of?) Clarence Williams' Columbia Recordings (May 1926 to February 1931), while the three Collector's Classics CDs cover Williams' recordings chronologically. There is some overlap between the two series, and you may have some difficulty tracking down the Collector's Classics (Danish label) discs - I believe that one of them is available for $7.99 from cybermusicsurplus.com . Of course, if you want all of Clarence Williams' material without the alternate takes, you can't beat the Chronological Classics series.

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rries

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Member # 349

posted February 01, 2000 09:49 AM

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there must be something in the air. i just started buying these titles myself, and i had avoided them for all of the reasons stated above. i was going to start a thread, but i often procratinate. the copyright question is a good and timely one. this will probably be battled in the courts in the near future. disney just got an extension on mickey and some of the early movies (imagine that), but the big fight that looms just around the corner is the presley catalog. i've checked the ike quebec date on classics and it does not duplicate alot of material from the swingtet title that was recently reissued by blue note. has anyone heard the quebec classics title. if so, i would appreciate an opinion.

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Bev Stapleton

Member

Member # 27

posted February 01, 2000 10:40 AM

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The way I understood it music over 50 years old is out of copyright. I can imagine a company like Disney, with all its muscle, trying to change the rules to milk Mickey further. I can't really imagine anyone wanting to fight in the courts over Fletcher Henderson et al! In a way its a pity!

Does it seem like there is going to be an attempt to widen the copyright situation? Can't see much of a reason. Yes, an artist and his/her dependants, the company who financed them (I suppose!) have a claim to remuneration for a reasonable time - and 50 years seems more than reasonable! Beyond that we're just talking about big corporations wanting more money.

[This message has been edited by Bev Stapleton (edited February 01, 2000).]

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Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted February 01, 2000 10:58 AM

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Bob, that Swingtets cd from Blue Note USA contains sessions from others as well as Ike, so that is why there are different tunes thereon.

The Chronological Classics Quebec has I believe all the masters from Blue Note of the Swingtets, etc.(can't remember; it might lack one session) and four Savoy sides. The Blue Note Classics (Japan) Quebec two cds has all the Blue Note masters, and all the alternates. Shortly after I got this and the Swingtet sides I was lucky enough to receive tapes of the Quebec/Hardee Mosaic set (still never have seen the booklet or a photocopy) and then shortly after that I purchased the two Quebec and one Hardy on Blue Note Classics from Japan, and several others with material that is on the Swingtets cd, and I confess to not listening to any of the others in some time; the Blue Note Classics sound fantastic.

There is also now a Definitive Records (Spain) cd that has the Blue Note masters, in what I imagine is great sound, as all their other releases sound great.

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Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted February 05, 2000 04:49 PM

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Chris,

I certainly don’t mind! Let me instead take the opportunity to say that I think that it’s great to have you on this board. Your experience in the business enable you to offer an inside perspective that I think is highly appreciated by all board members! And keep those anecdotes coming!

Marvin,

Clarence Williams’ most important recordings were with his Blue Five featuring Louis Armstrong and Sidney Bechet 1923-1925. On Classics those can be found on ”1921-1924” and ”1924-1926”. His later recordings from the 20’s, although less important, also had many famous guests. His recordings from the 30’s pretty much continued in the same style (Williams never making the shift to swing), although by then he stuck to a few lesser-known but loyal sidemen. I wrote a paragraph on Williams in the ”Where to start before Swing?” thread, which you may want to check.

Bev,

Teddy Wilson led similar sessions until 1939. Then he started a big band which included Ben Webster on tenor, but it was shortlived. (After it folded, Webster went to Ellington, and that was what really catapulted him into fame.) 1940-44 Wilson led a sextet which unfortunately was underrecorded, partly because of the record ban. In the mid-40’s he once again recorded with pick-up groups, as well as solos, now for Musicraft. Wilson’s style remained the same for the rest of his career, so you know what you get if you buy a Wilson record!

Lester Young’s style changed in the 50’s, and many have seen this a sign of decline. But this view was something that bothered Young, since the change was intentional on his part, playing even sparser than before, stripping down his choice of notes to the essentials. Sure, his life was unstable in those years, and he was in a physical decline, but his recordings rarely reflect that, but rather his change in concept.

Regarding Fats Waller And His Rhythm, Classics is always a safe choice, since they stay in print, and also have the other material (his piano solos, his European recordings, and on the last one, not yet issued, his V-Disc recordings). The RCA sets have much better liner notes of course, but I saw that Lon mentioned that they are not all in print, unfortunately. Another thing I can mention is that the last of them (actually the first one released) ”The Last Years 1940-1943” has alternate takes instead of master takes for several selections. The King Jazz label, judging from the Cds I have (not Waller) have good sound, and alternate takes, but they may be hard to find today. As for what Rhythm recordings to start with, I think you should start with the earliest ones (from 1934) and then you can work your way forward.

Although I don’t know the specific origin of the Berry-Ventura sides, they were apparently not commercial recordings, but some sort of private recordings, only released years later on the Sittin’ In With label. Around that time portable disc cutters started to become an option (later wire and tape recorders) and it was not unusual for enthusiasts to record their heroes in this way. The sound was of course much inferior, but especially when they featured musicians who had died early, they became interesting for release anyway. The most notorious example is Charlie Parker, with whom there exist remarkably many private recordings, some unlistenable, but released anyway. It’s amazing by the way to hear how Ventura had almost completely copied Berry’s style, although there also are some specific Venturaisms one recognizes from his later recordings. By the way, Classics has recently released the first CD under Ventura’s own name, ”1945-1946”, and it’s recommended. Another famous white tenorist who was a big fan of Chu Berry in his early days is Stan Getz.

Regarding Don Byas, I agree with Lon, all the Classics are recommended. After having played with Andy Kirk (1939-40) and Count Basie (1941-43), where you also can find several solos of his, he recorded an astonishing number of sessions under his own name in 1944-46, as well as being a highly in-demand sideman. In 1946 he went to Europe and didn’t return for over two decades. Although he continued to record a lot in Europe, his departure from the US scene is the reason why he isn’t as wellknown as he otherwise would have been. American musicians visiting Europe always wanted to play with him, and in my opinion Don Byas is a tenor giant.

In the mid to late 40’s McGhee was often mentioned up there with Gillespie and Parker as one of the top beboppers. ‘Personal problems’ kept him largely off the scene for the next decade, thus making him a rather forgotten name. But from 1945 to 1948 he recorded a lot of sessions under his own name, showing what a great musician he was during his prime. Since he recorded for many different labels, I think it’s best to go for the Classics releases. So far there have been two, ”1948” and ”1946-1948”, and the third which should be ”1945-1946” will probably come soon. After that, his next sessions were those that were released on the 10” Connoisseurs. Let me also mention that McGhee had a famous swing era feature, ”McGhee Special” recorded with Andy Kirk in 1942, which was composed and arranged by McGhee and featured him throughout. I will write more about Kirk’s recordings in my swing era post.

Regarding Lucky Thompson, he also played with Basie , in 1944-45, replacing Lester Young on the chair that Byas actually had held previously. For his own 40’s recordings, I’m waiting for a Classics release, which I think should come, but if one can’t wait, I know that there are at least two Cds on small labels called ”The Beginning Years” and ”Smooth Sailing”. I don’t have them myself so I can’t comment on them any further.

By the way, both Byas and Thompson are tenorists whose styles have been called ”transitional”, a label I think is unfair. The type of style they had is musically every bit as definite as any pure so called swing or bop tenorist.

Regarding a guitarist, the one that most comes to my mind from your description is Tiny Grimes. He had a Charlie Christian-influenced swing-based style and appeared on many recordings in the mid-40’s. His first session under his own name was made for Savoy in 1944, and is quite famous since it had Charlie Parker as sideman. He led another session in 1946, and then in the late 40’s led a R&Bish band. I think his sessions under his own name have been released on the Blue Moon label, but otherwise the best example I can think of now is his recordings with the Art Tatum Trio from 1944, which are out on Classics’ Tatum Cds ”1940-1944” and ”1944”. Especially the ten-track Brunswick session on ”1940-1944” is essential, and since Tatum himself is quite some bonus, there really isn’t much to hesitate about there! Grimes also led three Prestige albums in the 50’s, which are available as OJCs. Otherwise the problem with guitarists is that they rarely recorded as leaders. You will frequently hear a guitarist pop up here and there as sideman on big band and small group recordings from this era, but rarely as leader, and that’s why it’s difficult to direct you to any specific album.

As for the BN Powells and Monks, I, like you, prefer to hear the master takes only, but that can easily be accomplished by programming the CD player. It only takes a few seconds, so it’s better than buying the music anew, or not buying it at all.

As for the Nat King Cole Classics the earlier Cds have recordings for several different labels, most importantly Decca. From ”1943-1944” it’s mainly Capitol. The earlier ones are generally jazzier than the later ones, when a shift to emphasizing his singing and slower pop material is noticeable.

Well, Bev, it seems like you forgot to ask your other 7990 questions!

To Lon especially I should say that from Cole’s Capitol days, his Classics Cds also contain: a Disc session with Illinois Jacquet on ”1943-1944”, a V-Disc session on ”1944-1945”, a Sunset session with Charlie Shavers and Herbie Haymer as well as another V-Disc session on ”1945”, and the Keynoters session with Willie Smith as well as one more V-Disc track on ”1946”. So it’s not only Capitol material from 1943 and onwards.

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Victor Christensen

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Member # 214

posted February 06, 2000 06:09 AM

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Bev et al

About Fats Waller on King Jazz.

Planet has 12 of them listed in their february flier for 750 pesetas a piece.

Vic

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted February 06, 2000 06:33 AM

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I owe you all a million thanks again...although I thought I'd made my mind up on the RCA Wallers and now I'm wondering if the Classics might be a better approach to avoid the alternate takes. Is the sound quality that different?

On the guitar front I know the Parker sides with Tiny Grimes. Will have to look further. I occasionally hear Tal Farlow mentioned with great love. I have the Norvo/Mingus trio LP he made and must listen more closely. Any comments on Farlow. I saw a Verve disc which seems readily available - it was called something like 'The Artistry of Tal Farlow.' Any advice?

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Scott Lasser

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Member # 185

posted February 06, 2000 04:23 PM

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Bev --

You might be refering to the two Verve dates "The Tal Farlow Album" and "Tal". Both are exceptional; I give "Album" a slight nod because several of the cuts feature Joe Morello on drums. I really love his stuff form the 50's and 60's.

Honestly, though -- You can't go wrong with either discs.

Scott

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted February 07, 2000 10:32 AM

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Thanks Scott. I know I got the name of the album wrong. It was actually 'The Swinging Guitar of Tal Farlow' - I just checked on CD Now's site.

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Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted February 07, 2000 03:39 PM

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There is also a Verve Elite Edition of "This Is Tal Farlow" recorded in 1958. I understand from the postings here that the VEEs often are difficult to locate in America, but here in Europe they seem much easier to come by.

But we are definitely into the modern jazz era when we're talking about Farlow. Another great 50's guitarist, whom there doesn't seem to be much dicussion about is Barney Kessel. He came up in the post-Christian years and can be heard as sideman on several mid-40's sessions. From 1953 until the early 60's he recorded a string of albums for Contemporary, and almost all of them have been released as OJCs. Very swinging, in a modern vein.

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Scott Lasser

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Member # 185

posted February 08, 2000 05:02 AM

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Someone on another thread just mentioned that they had found the VEE of "This Is Tal..." at a WALMART!!!!!

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Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted February 10, 2000 04:47 PM

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Exciting news!

I was in a record store the other day, and had not planned to pick up anything really, when my eyes suddenly caught it: a boxset from Classics called ”Complementary Tracks”! Now, normally I know in advance the next few titles from Classics, but this release I hadn’t heard about at all. It didn’t take me many seconds to realize that this was the kind of release one dreams about, only to wake up to the gloomy reality of unreleased and OOP music!

”Complementary Tracks” is a 2-CD set with a third ‘bonus CD’. It has the remaining tracks of some artists, that didn’t fit on previous releases, as well as some discographically isolated sessions, and some tracks that simply weren’t available when previous volumes were produced. The third bonus CD corrects some errors that were present on early pressings of some titles. Those early pressings in some cases had the wrong tune, or an alternate take instead of the master take. Of course I’m one of the suckers who bought those early pressings when they came out!

So what does this set contain? Well, it has the remaining non-Ella Chick Webb tracks, it has the remaining Al Cooper’s Savoy Sultans session, the two remaining Fletcher Henderson sessions (1945 & 1949), the remaining two 40’s Don Redman sessions (1943 & 1946 with Don Byas), the only session ever made by the legendary Walter Page’s Blue Devils, the 1927 session with the Chickasaw Syncopaters (which in a way would become the Jimmie Lunceford orchestra), the last session by Alphonso Trent’s legendary territory orchestra (the previous sessions are on the recent ”Stuff Smith 1944-1946”, Smith being a sideman on those), the only pre-LP era recordings under clarinetist Omer Simeon’s name (and these 1929 performances are GREAT, with Earl Hines on piano on one), Taft Jordan’s only pre-LP session, the 1924 Red Onion Jazz Babies sessions with Louis Armstrong, clearly anticipating the Hot Five recordings, three of Midge Williams’ extremely rare 1934 Japanese recordings (imagine hearing ”St. Louis Blues” and ”Dinah” sung in Japanese! On the latter we also get to hear Japanese trumpet and clarinet solos! In 1934!), pianist Garnet Clark (who died 24 years old in a mental asylum) on a breathtaking ”I Got Rhythm” solo performance ... plus some other rarities! The bonus CD enabled me to hear, for instance, Lunceford’s ”Bugs Parade” for the first time. My original pressing had ”Blues In The Groove” a second time instead.

All in all, an exciting release, filling some important holes in one’s collection! The sound is very good, and I agree with Lon, that the newer Classics releases have very good sound. Those from the early years (the label started late in 1989) are not on the same level soundwise, but hey, that’s what’s said about BNs and OJCs from that time too.

This release also has some words on the history and intentions of Classics, that I thought you would find interesting:

”Over the last ten years, Classics has issued 600 CDs with a total of some 13000 tracks. Compared with the complete output of all jazz artists until 1950, this is only a percentage - but a considerable one! It has always been the policy of Classics not to focus exclusively on the big names and greatest bands but also to make available the recordings of unduly neglected or almost forgotten artists. We have tried and always intend to include all studio recordings or live sessions by an artist as long as all or part of the resulting music was actually issued at or around the time of the recording. This double CD collates a number of recordings that complete sessions by artists whose music is already out on Classics or makes tracks available that stand rather isolated, discographically speaking.”

The notes conclude with the following passage:

”We are looking forward to your ongoing support, criticism and help in order to carry on with many more new releases.”

Well, no e-mail address or website is given, but on the last page there is an address one can write to in order to get a free fully detailed Classics catalogue [and presumably offer suggestions too]:

CLASSICS - MÉLODIE - 50, RUE STENDAHL - 75020 PARIS - FRANCE

FAX: (33) (0)1 43 58 62 26

I hope I got it right there. Well, in later years they have started to release the recordings of several white band leaders, but there are some more I definitely would like to see, like Charlie Barnet and Jimmy Dorsey. Perhaps they are in the works already, but it doesn’t hurt to suggest them, I suppose.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted February 11, 2000 11:30 AM

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Thanks, Swede. The disc you mention sound wonderful and I'll be looking out for it on my next London trip.

Incidentally, are you from Sweden? Or of Swedish extraction? Or nothing to do with Sweden at all? Perhaps it's your christian name? Just curious.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Lon Armstrong

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Member # 137

posted February 11, 2000 11:51 AM

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Swinging Swede did an absolutely superb survey of pre-war jazz recommendations for the novice a few years back. If anyone still has that it should be put up in its own thread here. I'm sure there are lots of people like me whose centre's of gravity are much later but who would love a way into that fascinating world.

Do you still have it saved, SS? Get it online again!

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Some of the offering posted by SS look interesting, like the Dexter Gordon, esp. since he didn't record too much in the 50s, plus the latest Stan Getz.

Pretty soon they'll be moving into the hard bop era and I'd expect to see an Art Blakey disc.

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Daniel,

Thanks for saving and posting that! Reading through it brings back a lot of memories from the board’s early days…

Bev,

I think you may be referring to a thread I think was called ”Where to start in Swing?” (which was intended as a follow-up to a similarly titled thread about pre-Swing recommendations, on which I posted too), where I made a long post about black big bands during the Swing era. I originally intended to follow it up with a post about white big bands, and one about small groups, although those later installments for various reasons never were finished (at least not yet!).

I probably have it saved somewhere on the computer. It should also be on the Internet Archive site, if one just knows approximately when it was posted (since there is no text search). I’ll see if I can dig it up. And thanks for remembering it! I certainly had a lot more time on my hands back then (sigh) …

Brad,

If Classics starts a Blakey series, the first volume should be 1947-1954. It could come out in 2005.

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And here are some more titles, to be released in May:

1300 Al Hibbler 1950-1952

1301 Jimmy Jones 1946-1947

1302 Mezz Mezzrow 1947-1951

1303 Benny Goodman 1941-1942

1304 Woody Herman 1940-1941

Blues & Rhythm series:

5060 Fats Domino 1951-1952

5061 Dud Bascomb/Paul Bascomb 1945-1947

5062 Jimmy McCracklin 1945-1948

Dud Bascomb was a fine trumpeter, mostly known for the many years he spent in the Erskine Hawkins orchestra, where he actually was a featured soloist, despite playing the same instrument as the leader. He also was in Ellington’s band for a while. These recordings include his tenor-playing brother Paul Bascomb, who also had played in the Hawkins band (and who also recorded under his own name – maybe we will see those recordings on Classics in the future too?). [Addendum: This title actually includes Paul Bascomb-led sessions as well.] Jimmy Jones is the harmonically interesting pianist, who mostly appeared as a sideman with many famous names. Both the Bascomb and the Jones recordings will be new to me, and should be interesting. The Woody Herman series, while still in the Band That Plays The Blues era, is slowly approaching the First Herd era…

Edited by Swinging Swede

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I you are interested in Paul Bascomb, why not buy the Delmark cd now (owners of the masters0 and get a few alternates to boot. These, minus the alts will show up eventually in Classics' second volume. Let Paul's family make a little money before the Euro copyright runs out.

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...and here is another page from that thread (which is excellent reading):

Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted July 17, 2000 10:23 AM

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That seems right. Where they differ from many companies who own the original masters is that they don't do alternate takes. If a tune was recorded again at a later session then it's included; if it was one of several goes at a session it is not. For me this is ideal. I've no wish to plough through the alternates or programme them out.

Soundwise they sound fine to me - apart from the odd dodgy transfer. I'm sure there are better transfers on the labels owning the masters or on labels like Frog. But JCC provide a cost effective way of acquiring this music that should appeal to all but those who are especially interested in the audiophile side of things. If you are really into the music of this era you might be better with one of these other labels.

I only recently realised that 'The Best of Jazz' label was a subsiduary of Classics - as the name suggests they cherry-pick what they consider to be the best of an artists output - good for dipping a toe in the water.

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Mike P

Member

Member # 152

posted July 17, 2000 04:26 PM

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Some new releases that I'm looking forward to:

1110 Pete Johnson (1947-1949)

1111 Charlie Ventura

1112 Sidney Bechet (1947-1949)

1113 Lucky Thompson (1944-1947)

1114 Mildred Bailey (1937-1938)

1115 Buddy Johnson (1947-1949)

1125 Howard McGhee (1945-1946)

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Posts: 232 | From: Moraga, CA USA | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Birdistheword

Member

Member # 31

posted July 17, 2000 05:14 PM

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I like the Classics series a lot. I've been able to pick up great music that is otherwise unavailable. It's great for artists who recorded small sessions for many labels - here they are all together chronologically. The only problem in the US is that Classics CD's are usually expensive (16 to 19 dollars each), and they aren't always easy to find (especially the earlier ones).

http://jazzplace.homestead.com/index.html

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Bev Stapleton

Member

Member # 27

posted July 18, 2000 03:34 PM

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I've ordered Classics discs from CD Now at very good prices. They have a comprehensive stock if their website is to be believed.

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Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted July 19, 2000 03:44 PM

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To link to my post in March, here are the next thirty Classics releases:

1105 Cootie Williams 1946-1949

1106 Tadd Dameron 1947-1949

1107 Count Basie 1947-1949

1108 Fats Navarro 1947-1949

1109 Erroll Garner 1947-1949

1110 Pete Johnson 1947-1949

1111 Charlie Ventura 1946-1947

1112 Sidney Bechet 1947-1949

1113 Lucky Thompson 1944-1947

1114 Mildred Bailey 1937-1938

1115 Buddy Johnson 1947-1949

1116 James Moody 1948-1949

1117 Tommy Dorsey 1938

1118 Thelonious Monk 1947-1948

1119 Duke Ellington 1947-1949

1120 Earl Hines 1947-1949

1121 Bob Howard 1935-1936

1122 Valaida Snow 1937-1946

1123 Red Norvo 1936-1937

1124 Babs Gonzales 1947-1949

1125 Howard McGhee 1945-1946

1126 Stan Getz 1946-1949

1127 Artie Shaw 1940

1128 Woody Herman 1939

1129 New Orleans Rhythm Kings 1922-1923

1130 Blue Lu Barker 1946-1949

1131 Benny Goodman 1940

1132 Harry James 1941-1942

1133 Charlie Barnet 1933-1936

1134 Louis Jordan 1947-1949

A list that really whets the appetite, doesn’t it? I’m especially happy to see that Classics will start a series with Charlie Barnet, whose orchestra has been called the blackest white band, and which recorded a lot of fine music. It’s also nice to see that Classics, although by now really getting into the modern jazz era, hasn’t totally forgotten the early years, and will start a NORK series. I hope they in the future will release other names from the earliest years as well. The Lucky Thompson is probably a welcome release for many. With the McGhee all his 40’s recordings are now released on three CDs, and with the Basie, all the recordings by the First Testament band have now been released. Several Blue Note sessions in there too. And I noticed that the Dameron and the Navarro include a few obscure tracks, not among the general Savoy and Blue Note material. Valaida Snow was a female trumpeter, by the way. And the Cootie Williams has the hit recording ”Gator Tail”, which made tenorist Willis Jackson famous in the R&B days. Jackson later recorded a long string of soul jazz albums for Prestige, some of which have been reissued by Fantasy.

I’m embarrassed to see, now when I’m reading the thread again, that it was so long ago I promised to make a swing era post. Although I had written a part of it early on, for various reasons I didn’t find the time to continue it until now in the summer. I have finished it now, or rather a first instalment, and I’m only going to read it through once more, and make some minor adjustments, and then I’ll post it within a few days. I’m sorry for the delay!

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philip

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Member # 405

posted July 20, 2000 03:33 AM

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Valaida Snow was a vocalist as well as an Armstrong inspired trumpeter. Her vocal style is reminescent of Mildred Bailey, in her heavy use of vibrato. An unusual combination. Some of her records have dubious lyrics, and some of the accompaniments are disappointing, however.

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Bev Stapleton

Member

Member # 27

posted July 20, 2000 09:32 AM

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Look forward to your 'Swing' post, Swede. I've used your earlier one quite a bit to guide me in early waters.

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rob

Member

Member # 343

posted July 20, 2000 08:53 PM

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Crazy Jazz, a British company, is having a sale on the Classics catalog - 7.95 pounds pre disc (roughly 11.88). 10 or more discs are 7.50 pounds. Here's the link: http://216.46.252.34/

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Posts: 1563 | From: Somerville, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 99 | IP: Logged

Mike P

Member

Member # 152

posted July 27, 2000 08:53 PM

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New Classic releases:

1135 Nat "king" Cole 1947 vol.3

1136 John Hardee 1946-1948

1137 Billy Taylor 1945-1949

1138 Erroll Garner 1949

1139 Wynonie Harris 1947-1949

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Posts: 232 | From: Moraga, CA USA | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted September 30, 2000 01:41 AM

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Thanks, Mike! I’m looking forward especially to the Hardee.

Here is the next batch:

1140 Sidney Bechet 1949

1141 The Three Keys - Bon Bon & His Buddies 1932-1942

1142 Billy Eckstine 1947

1143 Gene Krupa 1945

1144 Louis Armstrong 1947 Vol.2

I have to say that I’m not familiar at all with what 1141 is.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted September 30, 2000 10:49 AM

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Have JCC started on Bud Powell yet? I recently got the first Monk disc which is an ideal way for me to acquire the tunes of this era as I'm not keen on a/ts.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted September 30, 2000 03:23 PM

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Yes, 1945-1947, Classics 1003. It has three sessions, the first of which is a previously obscure but great session from 1945 led by tenorist Frankie Socolow (who later would turn up on the Sal Salvador 10” BN LP, that was included on a Connoisseur a couple of years ago), with Powell on piano, and the legendary Freddy Webster on trumpet. Webster, who was a major influence on the young Miles Davis, didn’t record much, but here we get a rare opportunity to hear him taking several interesting and historically important solos. Webster died in 1947, I think.

The next session is from 1946 and features the Be Bop Boys, a group that also included Fats Navarro, Kenny Dorham and Sonny Stitt. This session has been more readily available on Savoy CDs.

The last session was Powell’s first under his own name, a trio session made in 1947 for Roost, which previously was out on a Roulette CD. This excellent and well-recorded session yielded eight tracks, and has Curley Russell on bass, and Max Roach on drums.

No Blue Note session there yet, but the next volume should probably be ”1949-1950” (which could then come out next year), and include Blue Note and ”Verve” sessions.

By the way, I see your point about the Monk disc. I actually picked up Classics’ Charlie Parker CDs for the very same reason. Although Parker may very well be my favourite musician if I have to pick one, I found myself not reaching for his CDs often enough, both because they were stuck in boxsets, which made them more difficult to pull out, and because I had to programme away alternate takes and breakdowns. It was always easier to pick something else instead, and I figured it shouldn’t be that way. After all, Bird is Bird!

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Bev Stapleton

Member

Member # 27

posted October 01, 2000 12:44 AM

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Thanks Swede. I know little Powell and the JCC series seem a nice way in.

I'm of the same mind to you on the last point. It's nice to have this material available both ways. That way both the dedicated enthusiast who wants to compare different takes and the listeners like me are accommodated for. We live in rich times, recording availability-wise.

Look out for the mass of material being put out by a company called Proper. They're promising some major issues before Xmas to follow on from their Birth of Bebop and Lester Young Story sets. I have the former and it's a joy.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Dale Turner

Member

Member # 1050

posted October 03, 2000 04:39 AM

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Could I ask a couple of questions about the JCC label?

1) Is it possible to get all of Lester Young's pre-Verve recordings on JCC? If so, how many CDs would that be? If not, is there a better way of getting them or a good way of plugging the gaps? I'm aware of the Proper box, but I really want to get the complete works rather than a compilation.

2) I'm interested in getting Mosaic's Django Reinhardt box, but I'm wondering if there's any overlap with JCC (I assume they do a Django series; correct me if I'm wrong). Ideally, I'd like to get the Mosaic, then acquire the balance of his discography with JCCs, both for sound quality reasons and a simple love of Mosaic product. As with the Young, how far have JCC got with Django and how many CDs would I have to buy?

Okay, that's several questions disguised as two, but like a number of contributors to this fascinating thread, I too have been put off JCC for aesthetic and prejudicial reasons, and I've got some catching up to do! Thanks in advance for your help.

PS One more query: Do JCCs go oop or is it a case of once it's in print, it never goes away, as with OJCs? Are some harder to track down than others? (Okay, TWO more queries! Sorry!)

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Posts: 361 | From: London, England | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged

John L

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Member # 123

posted October 03, 2000 05:20 AM

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Dale: On the question of Lester Young, Chronological Classics, I believe, is only packaging dates with Pres as the designated leader. For Pres, that really excludes a lot of the best.

Masters of Jazz is good way to go for a complete early Lester. One series is "Count Basie," which has a huge number of live broadcasts as well as studio recordings, most in very good sound. They are currently up to volume 11, right before "Lester Leaps In." Unfortunately, it may take a while for all of the 40-41 Basie with Lester material in this series to appear.

A second series is Billie Holiday. You can actually get all of Billie and Lester's recordings together (except for the Fine and Mellow track that came after 1950!) on a 3-disk package from Fremeaux et Fils.

That leaves the Masters of Jazz Lester Young series that releases virtually every other recording that Pres played on before the 1950s. There is a lot superb music here that is unavailable elsewhere.

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Birdistheword

Member

Member # 31

posted October 03, 2000 01:36 PM

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Also on JCC you won't get any alternate takes, and with Pres alternate takes are required listening. For example, he only made a few recordings for Keynote, but the alternates formerly available on a Mercury CD are as good or better than the released versions. Masters of Jazz is an excellent label and their comprehensiveness, sound, and liner notes are superior to JCC.

http://jazzplace.homestead.com

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Posts: 1309 | From: Boca Raton, FL | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Dale Turner

Member

Member # 1050

posted October 05, 2000 07:34 AM

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John and Birdistheword: Thanks for the excellent advice -- most helpful and I appreciate it. I've never heard of Masters of Jazz, so will have to investigate. Is it another European label? John, you say MOJ cover live broadcasts as well as studio recordings -- are they mixed together chronologically or confined to separate releases? I'd really rather get the studio recordings before I embark on the live stuff. I should mention that I have all of Pres's work with Billie on the nine Quintessential Billy Holiday CDs Columbia Jazz Masterworks released in the 80s, so I'm part of the way there. Also, Birdistheword, thanks for the tip on alternates of Pres. I'm often in two minds on this issue generally, but can readily imagine that Pres is an exception.

Can anyone help me with my Django query?

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Posts: 361 | From: London, England | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged

Jason Drake

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Member # 602

posted October 05, 2000 08:22 AM

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Dale, the Masters Of Jazz label is most easily available in France but you'll have seen them around in the UK. The covers all have white backgrounds with a small b/w photo of the artist in the centre. Amazon.Fr has them all, but they're expensive (150FF). Try Fnac.fr, their bricks and mortar store has them for around 90FF.

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Posts: 280 | From: London, England | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

Jason Drake

Member

Member # 602

posted October 05, 2000 08:23 AM

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Dale, the Masters Of Jazz label is most easily available in France but you'll have seen them around in the UK. The covers all have white backgrounds with a small b/w photo of the artist in the centre. Amazon.Fr has them all, but they're expensive (150FF). Try Fnac.fr, their bricks and mortar store has them for around 90FF.

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Posts: 280 | From: London, England | Registered: Jan 2000 | IP: Logged

Lon Armstrong

Member

Member # 137

posted October 05, 2000 09:39 AM

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Dale, the Masters of Jazz series do present material chronologically, mixing live and studio appearances.

There is going to be overlap between the JCC and the Mosaic (and JSP) Django boxes. I would agree that the Mosaic will be a great sounding product. I think you can get this and then build around it with the JCC releases.

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Posts: 10027 | From: Austin, TX USA | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted October 06, 2000 05:00 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dale Turner:

1) Is it possible to get all of Lester Young's pre-Verve recordings on JCC? If so, how many CDs would that be? If not, is there a better way of getting them or a good way of plugging the gaps? I'm aware of the Proper box, but I really want to get the complete works rather than a compilation.

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It depends on what you mean by pre-Verve. Young’s very first session as a leader was made in 1943 for Keynote, which is now owned by Verve. There was also another Verve-owned session in 1946, before his long tenure with what would later become Verve started in 1950. There are two Classics CDs so far: 1943-1946 and 1946-1947. The next one should probably be 1947-1950 and come out next year, and would then include the remaining Aladdin and Savoy material, and start to get into his long Verve period. I should also point out the Kansas City 5, 6 & 7 1938-1944 CD, which has Lester on three out of four sessions. They were made for Keynote and Commodore, which last year became another of the Verve-owned labels!

quote:

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2) I'm interested in getting Mosaic's Django Reinhardt box, but I'm wondering if there's any overlap with JCC (I assume they do a Django series; correct me if I'm wrong). Ideally, I'd like to get the Mosaic, then acquire the balance of his discography with JCCs, both for sound quality reasons and a simple love of Mosaic product. As with the Young, how far have JCC got with Django and how many CDs would I have to buy?

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Classics has released 15 Django CDs so far, covering the years 1934 to 1947. These include not only all of Django’s own sessions (and with The Quintet Of The Hot Club Of France), but also many sessions with Django as sideman, mainly led by other Frenchmen like Michel Warlop and André Ekyan, but also some by other Europeans or visiting Americans. They don’t include his sideman appearances, when the leader of the session has been given an entry of his own in the Classics catalogue. Thus more Django can be found on the CDs with Stéphane Grappelly and Alix Combelle for example. Especially Stéphane Grappelly 1935-1940 has to be singled out, since it has Django on almost all tracks. Since I don’t have the Mosaic set I don’t know exactly how many CDs you would have to buy to fill the gaps. Probably many!

quote:

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Okay, that's several questions disguised as two, but like a number of contributors to this fascinating thread, I too have been put off JCC for aesthetic and prejudicial reasons, and I've got some catching up to do! Thanks in advance for your help.

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I started to pick them up already when they first appeared in 1990. (I remember that Lunceford and Basie were among the first I bought, and also that I was excited about this new approach since at that time only compilations had been put out on the market.) But for someone who is only starting now, there is certainly some catching up to do with over 600 CDs in their catalogue!

quote:

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PS One more query: Do JCCs go oop or is it a case of once it's in print, it never goes away, as with OJCs? Are some harder to track down than others? (Okay, TWO more queries! Sorry!)

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They are all in print! Thus whether any titles are harder to find than others will depend on the habits of the stores you use.

quote:

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Originally posted by John Litwack:

Dale: On the question of Lester Young, Chronological Classics, I believe, is only packaging dates with Pres as the designated leader. For Pres, that really excludes a lot of the best.]

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Not really, since his sideman sessions appear under the respective leader’s name on Classics; Basie, Billie Holiday, Teddy Wilson etc.

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Dale Turner

Member

Member # 1050

posted October 09, 2000 04:45 AM

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Swinging Swede, given your excellent contributions elsewhere in this thread, I had a feeling I might be hearing from you! I can't thank you enough for the information -- and thanks again to everyone else who chimed in with advice. This is clearly a subject worth investigating further...

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Posts: 361 | From: London, England | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted October 28, 2000 10:00 AM

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New batch!:

1145 Russell Jacquet 1945-1949

1146 Louis Prima 1937-1939

1147 Charles Brown 1947-1948

1148 Erskine Hawkins 1947-1949

1149 Charlie Ventura 1947-1949

In case you didn’t know, Russell Jacquet was Illinois Jacquet’s trumpet-playing brother. This disc has sidemen like Dexter Gordon, Lucky Thompson, Teddy Edwards, Sonny Stitt, J.J. Johnson, Harry ”Sweets” Edison, Charlie Mingus and Chico Hamilton! Not too bad, huh?

By the way, brother Illinois already has two releases of his own on Classics, ”1945-1946” and ”1946-1947”.

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Leroy Wilson

Junior Member

Member # 1199

posted October 29, 2000 06:40 AM

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The duration of copyright in the US has become very confusing. Most people believe that the duration of a copyright exists for the life of the author plus 50 years. While this was once the case for works created on or after January 1st, 1978, it is no longer accurate.

Legislation passed in the last few years has increased the length to life plus 70.

For works created before January 1st, 1978, it gets much more confusing. The law before 1978 provided for a term of 28 years, and an additional renewable term of 28 years.

That sounds simple enough, right? Well, the law changed and those works still in their first 28 year term on or after January 1st 1978 were automatically extended an additional 47 year term. As a result, works between 1950 and 1978 dont expire until 75 years after their original publication.

And in 1998, the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension and Fairness in Music Licensing Act tacked on another 20 years!

Therefore, Jazz Chronological Classics is going to run into about a 45 year-long brick wall for many recordings made starting in 1950. We wont legally see the early 50's Blue Note Bud Powell's and Thelonious Monk's on JCC until at least 2045.

At least that is how I understand it.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted October 29, 2000 07:46 AM

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So how does that affect the right to sell in the States, say JCC, manufactured where the law is different? The US online stores stock this stuff even though it appears to be in breach of US copyright.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Leroy Wilson

Junior Member

Member # 1199

posted October 29, 2000 04:28 PM

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Unless JCC has issued any works recorded in 1950 and after, which I don't believe they have, I think they are legal.

I'll double check on the international implications, but, I believe that if the recording was made in the US and registered in the US, the US law still applies.

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Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted November 10, 2000 04:12 PM

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Next batch:

1150 New Orleans Rhythm Kings 1923-1935

1151 Jimmie Lunceford 1948-1949

1152 Bob Howard 1932-1935

1153 Ella Fitzgerald 1949

1154 Benny Goodman 1940-1941

Note that the Lunceford tracks were recorded after Lunceford’s death in 1947, when tenorist Joe Thomas and pianist Edwin Wilcox took over the leadership of the Lunceford band.

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted December 17, 2000 04:32 AM

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Next batch:

1155 Nat King Cole 1947-1949

1156 Tommy Dorsey 1938 Vol. 2

1157 Red Norvo 1937-1938

1158 Valaida Snow 1933-1936

1159 Charlie Barnet 1936-1937

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Bev Stapleton

Member

Member # 27

posted December 17, 2000 01:35 PM

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Any comments on the Red Norvo sessions? I'm looking for the Gillespie/Parker sesions of the mid-40s but the only CD I've seen is riddled with alternatives (not my interest). Seems like it will be some time before JCC get there. What are these early Norvos like?

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted January 01, 2001 08:10 AM

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Yes, there will be some time before they reach that 1945 Comet session. Perhaps three or four more CDs, which I suspect they should accomplish within two years.

I haven’t been able to pick up Classics’ Norvo CDs yet, but I have a couple of older CDs covering the 30’s, so I have heard some of the music.

In the mid-30’s Norvo recorded several interesting small group sessions, with illustrious sidemen like Jimmy Dorsey, Benny Goodman, Jack Jenney, Artie Shaw, Charlie Barnet, Teddy Wilson, Chu Berry, Bunny Berigan and Gene Krupa! All of the names mentioned would a few years later become big band leaders, except Berry, who however would become the biggest star in a big band! Quite classic music. Dance Of The Octopus, with Benny Goodman on bass clarinet and Norvo on marimba, is an unusual piece of music, perhaps not even jazz, but highly fascinating.

In 1936 Norvo started a big band, which featured the vocals of Mildred Bailey and the arrangements of the highly gifted Eddie Sauter. This was a good band, but it never quite caught on, like the bands of several of his former session sidemen mentioned above.

If I should recommend one of the Classics CDs, it would - with the obvious reservation that I haven’t yet heard all of the music that’s on them - be the first one, 1933-1936, with its classic small group sessions.

It should be pointed out that during the years in question Norvo had not yet made the transition to vibraphone, but still was playing xylophone and occasionally marimba.

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Bev Stapleton

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Member # 27

posted January 01, 2001 02:03 PM

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Thanks, Swede. One to investigate.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted January 20, 2001 02:18 PM

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Classics enters the 50’s!

1160 Mildred Bailey 1938

1161 Lionel Hampton 1949-1950

1162 Coleman Hawkins 1947-1950

1163 Woody Herman 1939-1940

1164 Rex Stewart 1948-1949

As we are into a new year, it follows that Classics’ scope extends one year further, and thus we now see the first releases with music recorded in the 50’s. Hampton’s big band during the time covered included Wes Montgomery, who subsequently went back to Indianapolis, and wouldn’t be heard from by the world until almost a decade later. The Hawkins CD has some sessions I’ve never seen available on CD before. It also includes the seminal solo saxophone performance Picasso. The Rex Stewart CD may include sides recorded in Australia, but I’m not 100% sure about that yet.

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted February 23, 2001 02:39 PM

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Next batch:

1165 Dodo Marmarosa 1945-1950

1166 Sarah Vaughan 1949-1950

1167 Artie Shaw 1940-1941

1168 Dizzy Gillespie 1949-1950

1169 James Moody 1949-1950

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted March 02, 2001 01:41 PM

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Classics is starting a new R&B series, with the same concept as their regular series. Here are the titles in the first batch:

5000 Ray Charles 1949-1950

5001 Marion Abernathy 1947-1949

5002 Dave Bartholomew 1947-1950

5003 Ruth Brown 1949-1950

5004 Professor Longhair 1949

This is an area I know very little about. What do more knowledgeable board members have to say about this music, these titles, and about the fact that Classics is starting a series devoted to this genre? Is it a welcome event, or is it all already available out there?

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Harold_Z

Member

Member # 1142

posted March 02, 2001 04:08 PM

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Swede, I think that's great news and a great idea. I'll definitely be checking out the releases. As for the ones you mentioned..

Ray Charles is probably the Swingtime material. It's been out in complete editions in good sound, but I don't think those editions are currently in print. These have been issued many times in bits and pieces on budget CDs and before that on vinyl, often in terrible sound.

I'm unaware of Marion Abernathy.

Dave Bartholomew is most likely Imperial material and it's solid New Orleans R&B, with many of the hallowed names of that genre involved.

Ruth Brown recorded in New York for Atlantic. I think her stuff is pretty easily found. BTW, on her first session she was backed by Eddie Condon's band.

Longhair is New Orleans again. He was the primary piano influence on New Orleans R&B and players like Fats Domino, Huey Smith, Allen Toussaint, Dr John, James Booker, etc.

Of the five discs you mentioned, the only one I wouldn't check out immediately would be the Ray Charles, and only because I have a complete Swingtime set already.

I really hope they do Amos Milburn. The Mosaic CD sets on Ebay are ridiculously high and I really wish I had got it when it was available.

Shirley And Lee wouldn't be too bad either!

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Posts: 1157 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted March 09, 2001 03:53 PM

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Many thanks for your reply, Harold! As I said, I know little about this genre, but the fact that it’s a label I’m very familiar with, makes me inclined to try some of these.

I actually saw four of them in a record store today, and listened briefly to two of them. The Bartholomew seemed more jazz-oriented than the Longhair, especially the first session which started with an instrumental version of Stardust, featuring Bartholomew’s trumpet. The only one I didn’t see was the Abernathy, but it has Hot Lips Page and several other well-known jazz names, so it should be pretty jazz-oriented. That CD apparently has all her recordings.

By the way, I really liked the new look of this series, both the cover and the CD itself. I think it is an improvement on their regular jazz series. It should be, as they have had plenty of years to think out an alternative look.

I also saw what the next two titles in the R&B series will be:

5005 Earl Bostic 1945-1948

5006 Tom Archia 1947-1948

Earl Bostic’s earliest recordings are clearly jazz. He was a brilliant alto saxophonist, although he became criticized in jazz circles for the path he chose. Tom Archia’s name turns up on some jazz sessions (including the Roy Eldridge session that was Ike Quebec’s recording debut), but I’m not familiar with his own work. Anyone?

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted March 09, 2001 03:54 PM

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And here are the titles in the next regular batch:

1170 Bud Powell 1949-1950

1171 Kenny Clarke 1946-1948

1172 Stan Getz 1950

1173 Lucky Millinder 1947-1950

1174 Sonny Stitt 1946-1950

The last two batches clearly focus on modernists. I saw the 1165-9 batch in the stores today. The Marmarosa has all the recordings by the troubled bop great before his brief comeback in the early 60’s. I didn’t know that Dizzy’s big band recorded two more sessions after the RCA Victor contract ended in 1949. But so he did, for Capitol, one in late 1949 and one in early 1950, before the band disbanded. The Musicraft and RCA sides have often been reissued, but I have never heard the Capitol sides before. I also didn’t know that Dizzy made a session for Prestige. The Moody has many sessions recorded in Sweden. I already have them on an LP, and they are excellent. To Bev: the Powell should be of interest to you, since it has master takes from Blue Note and Verve sessions.

With the looming LP era and its increase of recorded jazz, I wonder how many earlier jazz names Classics will go back and start a series for. We’ll see.

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Bev Stapleton

Member

Member # 27

posted March 10, 2001 02:58 AM

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Thanks Swinging Swede. The Powell I have been waiting for.

I can't see how they are going to manage the LP era. The idea of 'chronological' goes to pieces in my mind then. Disrupting the original LP format would put me off.

I suspect their forte will be documenting the pre-LP era.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

greyhound

Member

Member # 1552

posted March 10, 2001 05:22 AM

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Swinging Swede, I think the Red Norvo Classics 1933-36 CD may be quite similar to the HEP cd Dance Of The Octopus remastered by J.R.T. Davies which should still be available.

At least I think that is why I returned the Classics.Potential buyers may want to compare these two.

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Mike P

Member

Member # 152

posted March 24, 2001 05:26 PM

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Marion Abernathy was a popular blues vocalist with Buddy Banks and Paul Bascomb Bands from 1945-1949. She also recorded for Specialty Records as The Blues Woman. She recorded for King Records for three years.

"Voo-It Voo-It" was a hit for her in 1945.

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Posts: 232 | From: Moraga, CA USA | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted April 06, 2001 12:20 PM

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Mike,

Yes, I noticed that the CD does not in fact include her earliest sides. Since the CD only has 20 tracks, they clearly could have included more. Don’t know why they didn’t.

Bev,

I have seen contradictory information regarding Classics’ plans for the LP era. The liner notes often say that the CD is volume x of the artist’s complete recordings. In addition the liner notes often end with ”To be continued...”, and in some of those cases the next volume clearly must include LP era recordings. And it has actually already happened. Duke Ellington’s Liberian Suite was recorded for Columbia in 1947, and first released on an early 10” LP in 1949. It was included in Classics’ latest Ellington volume 1947-1948. By 1950 the transition to LPs already had begun, although 78s would continue to come out until 1953.

On the other hand I read an article about Classics and Gilles Petard (who runs the label), where it was said that Petard intended to go back and release more earlier names rather than getting into the LP era. I wouldn’t mind if new series were started for earlier names. There are for example still many white big bands left that I would like to see reissued. As for the LP era, there wouldn’t be any point in releasing, say, the complete Miles Davis or Sonny Rollins, since it all already has been reissued. On the other hand, there are lesser-known but excellent names from the LP era, that I gladly would like to see reissued. Just look at the Verve catalogue for example. Their many 50’s recordings with Buddy DeFranco is just one example of things I would like to get my hands on, if Verve doesn’t bother to release it themselves. Or take Sonny Stitt’s many Roost LPs, which Hardbop often brings up(and I don’t blame him), and which Tom has said will be among the last to be reissued by Blue Note, if ever. There clearly is a market for unreissued 50’s LPs too. And if not Classics, then other labels will do them, I’m sure. Not necessarily in chronological order of course.

Let me also add that many boxsets of LP era material, like for example Clifford Brown’s EmArcy recordings and Roland Kirk’s Mercury recordings to mention just two, are in strict chronological order. Possible Classics releases from the LP years could be seen as discs from a gigantic box set!

By the way, I read that Classics’ release schedule is planned two years in advance. I sure would like to see that list!

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted April 06, 2001 12:23 PM

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Next jazz batch:

1175 Jess Stacy 1944-1950

1176 J.J. Johnson 1946-1949

1177 Eddie Condon 1947-1950

1178 Harry James 1942

1179 Louis Armstrong 1949-1950

Next Blues & Rhythm titles:

5007 T-Bone Walker 1929-1946

5008 Muddy Waters 1941-1948

Any comments on the last two?

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Bev Stapleton

Member

Member # 27

posted April 06, 2001 03:13 PM

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Thanks once again for your insights, Swede.

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Posts: 3103 | From: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Birdistheword

Member

Member # 31

posted April 06, 2001 05:59 PM

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That Muddy Waters release seems totally useless - the '41 tracks are Library of Congress field recordings that MCA/Chess already has released fully with excellent sound and notes. He made a few sides for Columbia in '46 which I guess will be here and have been hard to find recently, but they are a compromised style and don't add anything to the Muddy legacy. The rest are classic early Chess recordings which Chess has reissued endlessly, including just last year in pristine sound in a 2 CD set of Muddy's complete early Chess recordings. These '47-48 Chess recordings are mostly great (although not too varied) with Muddy on guitar and vocals and Big Crawford on bass and some with piano and drums. Chess CDs are usually low priced and easily available, so this Classics issue (which I'm sure won't have the sound of the Chess) seems redundant. I'm sure anyone interested in this already has it in a better form.

http://jazzplace.homestead.com

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Posts: 1309 | From: Boca Raton, FL | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Harold_Z

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Member # 1142

posted April 06, 2001 08:57 PM

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The Condon release is comprised of 3 10" lps entitled respectively:

"We Called It Music"

"At The Jazz Band Ball Vol 1"

"At The Jazz Band Ball Vol 2"

They may possibly have appeared as 78 albums prior or concurrently with their 10" release. It's good stuff..The usual cast delivering the usual great product. Jack Teagarden is VERY present and the 4 tunes with Wild Bill and Peewee are winners. The rarest things on this are "Jazz Me Blues" and "At The Jazz Band Ball". As far as I know they have not appeared anywhere since the 10" lps. All of the rest later appeared a few times on Decca and MCA vinyl. I think the reason why those 2 tracks never resurfaced is a vocalist that sounds dated. To be kind. Too bad it wasn't Red Mckenzie or even Johnny Mercer, who did the lyrics (The same lyrics to Jazz Band Ball appear on the Capitol Mosaic set, delivered by Mercer with Wingy Manone's band). The vocalist is very questionable but the band is HOT!

Along the same lines I'm waiting for Chrono to get to a Gene Krupa release from (I think) 1948 that will include 8 tracks done for RCA with a Condon group (sans Eddie) that includes Wild Bill, Cutty Cutshall, Edmund Hall/Peanuts Hucko, Ernie Caceres, etc. Again there is a bizarre vocalist on 4 of the tracks, but there is also some of the best Wild Bill on record and the 4 instrumental only tracks are totally wonderful.

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Posts: 1157 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

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Member # 197

posted May 23, 2001 04:39 PM

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New titles:

1180 Joe Turner 1949-1950

1181 Gene Sedric 1938-1947

1182 Erroll Garner 1949 Vol. II

1183 Kid Ory 1945-1950

1184 Lennie Tristano 1946-1947

Blues & Rhythm series:

5009 Big Jay McNeely 1948-1950

5010 Walter Brown 1945-1947

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

PD

Member

Member # 1816

posted June 01, 2001 07:33 PM

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Swingin' Swede.. I had a question I thought you might be of some help with..I threaded it in Reissues because it took me awhile to wend my way back here.Its under Masters of jazz....can you help?

Thanks

PD

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Posts: 2641 | From: Woodinville WA 98052 USA | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

alankin

Member

Member # 220

posted June 09, 2001 07:27 AM

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I just noticed listing for this series of alternate takes for the Jazz Chronological Classics series. Has anyone heard any of these? How's the sound?

Sidney Bechet Alternate Takes, Vol. 1 - 1925-41 (Neatwork) June 26

Sidney Bechet Alternate Takes, Vol. 2 - 1941-47 (Neatwork) June 26

Coleman Hawkins Alternate Takes, Vol. 1 - 1935-43 (Neatwork) June 26

Fletcher Henderson Alternate Takes, Vol. 1 - 1923-25 (Neatwork) June 26

Fats Waller Alternate Takes, Vol. 1 - 1923-29 (Neatwork) June 26

Fats Waller Alternate Takes, Vol. 2 - 1929-38 (Neatwork) June 26

Fats Waller Alternate Takes, Vol. 3 - 1938-43 (Neatwork) June 26

Alan

jazzmatazz.home.att.net

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Posts: 1325 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted June 19, 2001 11:05 PM

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Alan, Do you know of any formal relationship between this label, Neatwork, and Classics, or is it just that releasing the alternate takes naturally complements Classics’ releases of master takes?

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

Swinging Swede

Member

Member # 197

posted June 19, 2001 11:06 PM

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New titles:

1185 Stan Kenton 1950

1186 Sidney Bechet 1949 Vol. 2

1187 Mildred Bailey 1939

1188 Frankie Trumbauer 1927-1928

1189 Johnny Hodges 1945-1950

1190 Sy Oliver 1945-1949

1191 Duke Ellington 1949-1950

1192 Red Norvo 1938-1939

1193 Lionel Hampton 1950

1194 Charlie Barnet 1937-1939

Blues & Rhythm series:

5013 Sunnyland Slim 1947-1948

5014 Lightnin’ Hopkins 1946-1948

Once again I know the Blues & Rhythm artists by name only. Any comments on them?

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Posts: 1484 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 99 | IP: Logged

alankin

Member

Member # 220

posted June 20, 2001 03:08 AM

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Swinging Swede - I don't know of any relationship between Classics and Neatwork. The only thing I've found out about Neatwork is that they're in Austria.

Alan

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Posts: 1325 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

Harold_Z

Member

Member # 1142

posted June 20, 2001 04:15 AM

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Sunnyland Slim was a blues pianist/singer from Mississippi but came to prominence in Chicago with some Bluebird sides and on early Muddy Waters recordings.

Lightnin' Hopkins was a Texas blues guitarist/singer who recorded a lot both as a soloist and with a small group of accompianists. He played both acoustic or electric guitar depending on the gig and he was pretty influential on blues and rock guitar players. He was nororious for adding or subtracting bars from the traditional 12 bar blues chorus, but he always made it work and sound natural.

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Posts: 1157 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

jhalbro

Member

Member # 674

posted June 20, 2001 01:59 PM

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Anyone care to comment on the Classics Coleman Hawkins, Illinois Jacquet, or Benny Carter series? How are the transfers? How do they compare with other reissues? Are there better places to look for this stuff?

I have the Hawkins Body and Soul compilation, but that's just not enough Bean!

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Posts: 134 | From: New Orleans, LA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

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Chuck, I’m afraid the Euro copyright already has run out. Speaking of that, is there any country in the world that has more than 50 years of copyright in sound recordings, except the US?

Unfortunately the Delmark label isn’t distributed in Sweden, so there is no easy way to get its releases. I wasn’t even aware of this particular title, but now it goes onto the ever increasing list of CDs to look out for. I was going to say that it anyway would be interesting if Classics reissued Paul Bascomb’s pre-Delmark recordings, but now it turns out that the Classics CD actually is a combined Dud/Paul release. I also now believe that it is part of the Blues & Rhythm series. I have updated the list above with the complete and I hope correct titles (added Goodman and Hibbler).

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Here is the June batch:

1305 Nat King Cole 1949-1950

1306 Red Norvo 1943-1944

1307 Budd Johnson 1944-1952

1308 Hazel Scott 1939-1945

1309 Charlie Ventura 1949-1951

Blues & Rhythm series:

5063 Joe Liggins 1946-1948

5064 Saunders King 1942-1948

Nice to see a CD devoted to Budd Johnson. I’m not sure what it will include though, since his leader sessions, according to Lord, aren’t nearly enough to make up a full CD.

Edited by Swinging Swede

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July batch :

1310 : Erroll Garner 1950-51

1311 : Roy Eldridge 1951

1312 : Louisiana Rhythm Kings 1929-30 (A Red Nichols-led unit featuring Jack Teagarden, Benny Goodman, Pee Wee Russell, Adrian Rollini, Jimmy Dorsey, Glenn Miller, et al.)

1313 : Harry James 1945-46

1314 : Charlie Parker 1950-52

Blues & Rhythm Series :

5065 : Chris Powell 1949-52 (includes Clifford Brown's first recordings)

5066 : Little Esther 1951-52

5067 : Johnny Otis 1949-50

Edited by FrancoisD

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Anyone interested in the Louisiana Rhythm Kings would do better to purchase the Jazz Oracle cd, which probably has better sound, has an alternate, and has about 30 pages of excellent notes!

sbdw8024.jpg

Edited by jazzbo

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August batch :

1315 : Don Byas 1951-52

1316 : Mildred Bailey 1943-45

1317 : Django Reinhardt 1947-51

1318 : Charlie Barnet 1940

1319 : Gene Krupa 1947-49

R & B Series :

5068 : Mabel Scott 1946-50

5069 : Lloyd Glenn 1951-52

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I'll second Lon's suggestion on the Jazz Oracle La Rhythm Kings cd. In fact, most if not all of the Jazz Oracle catalog is well worth picking up if you like 20s and early 30s jazz-wonderful sound and terrific booklets. I have been listening lately to the Roger Kahn disc and easily recommend it to enthusiasts of that period.

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But time moves on, as do the Classics releases, so let�s continue here.

How do the Ellington releases on Classics covering the Webster-Blanton years compare to the recent Never No Lament issue in terms of sound?

Guy

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I haven’t gotten any of those (not yet at least), since I already had this material on the old RCA release. But judging from what I’ve read the general consensus seems to be that Never No Lament is the best-sounding release of this material ever, except for Jack the Bear, which some have claimed to be unlistenable. This is apparently due to the original metal parts being damaged. The Classics releases do however also contain the small group sessions recorded during the time covered, which nominally were led by Johnny Hodges, Rex Stewart and Barney Bigard.

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September batch:

1320 Duke Ellington 1952

1321 Dizzy Gillespie 1952

1322 Georgie Auld 1940-1945

1323 Oscar Peterson 1950-1952

1324 Benny Goodman 1942

Blues & Rhythm series:

Lowell Fulson 1947-1948

Lil Green 1940-1941

Jim Wynn 1947-1949

Georgie Auld was recently discussed, and several posters expressed interest, so Classics starting a complete series should be welcome news. Freddie Webster was also recently discussed, and brownie mentioned his solo on Auld’s Co-Pilot from 1945. This track should be among the last on this first Auld release. By the way, the first two sessions were actually the former Artie Shaw orchestra without Shaw. Shaw had to everybody’s surprise left his highly successful band in late 1939, and the band members, reluctant to disband the great orchestra, carried on for a while under Auld’s leadership.

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I've been enjoying the first in the Hazel Scott series, and the Elllington material on the latest (fifth) Charlie Ventura.

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Got mine a few days ago from cduniverse. It's nice! I've been waiting to hear these early recordings.

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October batch :

1325 : Lester Young 1951-52

1326 : Sidney Bechet 1950-51

1327 : Tommy Dorsey 1939 (vol. III)

1328 : Ella Fitzgerald 1952

1329 : Gene Ammons 1949-50

Blues & Rhythm Series :

5073 : Hal Singer 1948-51

5074 : T-Bone Walker 1947-50

5075 : Joe Lutcher 1947

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Nice to see a CD devoted to Budd Johnson. I’m not sure what it will include though, since his leader sessions, according to Lord, aren’t nearly enough to make up a full CD.

The Budd Johnson 1944-1952 Chronogical Classics has been out for some time now. Highly enjoyable compilation of various and rare sessions where Johnson appeared.

The CD includes:

- the four tracks from a Savoy December 1944 session by Clyde Hart with Benny Harris, Herbie Fields, Hart, Chuck Wayne, Oscar Pettiford and Denzil Best. Nice opportunity to listen to Little Benny Harris solos,

- the two tracks from a Manor September 1945 session by Al Killian with Trummy Young, Aaron Sachs, Harry Carney, Marty Napoleon, Joe Shulman and drummer George Jones,

- the four tracks from a Continental March 1946 session by J.C. Heard with George Treadwell, Dickie Harris, Jimmy Jones, Al McKibbon and Heard. The session was not on the 2 Continental sessions CDs from Storyville,

- three tracks from the HRS March 1946 Dicky Wells Big Seven session with Treadwell, Cecil Scott, Jimmy Jones, McKibbon and Jimmy Crawford. The fourth tune from the session (We're Through) is not included. It was in an earlier Sarah Vaughan Classics release,

- two out of the 8 sides from the Cyclone June 1947 session by Budd Johnson with Eddie Barefield, George Dorsey and others. Other sides could not be found,

- two tracks from a Victor October 1947 session by singer Leslie Scott with Johnson, a string and a rhythm section backing the singer,

- four tracks from a Faith September 1951 session by Budd Johnson's All Stars with Howard McGhee, JJ Johnson, Charlie Singleton, Cecil Payne, Kenny Drew, Oscar Pettiford and Kansas Fields,

- two tracks from a MGM March 1952 session by Johnny King with Budd Johnson and his All Stars with Joe Newman, Hilton Jefferson, Cecil Payne, Billy Taylor, Milt Hinton and Kelly Martin.

A very nice chance to hear more Budd Johnson. A beautiful player.

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Yes, I’ve been looking forward to this CD even more since I learned what’s on it. I have the December 1944 session on an LP that I haven’t been able to play for a long time, but I remember that my impression was that this was a very good candidate for being the first bebop session. They play Dee Dee’s Dance and Crazeology, two early bop classics, and the band was made up of musicians either directly involved in the new movement, or at least open to it. I think it really is a very important session, but gets a bit overlooked, maybe because neither Diz nor Bird was present. It will be interesting to hear it again.

The leader, Clyde Hart, is another one of the numerous tragedies in jazz. He led this session, and in early 1945 he played on several sessions with Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker, but he died later that year from tuberculosis. Another case of ”what could have been?”.

Al Killian played with Basie, Ellington and JATP, but was murdered in 1950. Nice to see one of his leader sessions reissued.

Budd Johnson himself is a vastly underrated jazz musician in my opinion. He always sounds incredible. Seems to be lots of goodies on this CD. Can’t wait to get my hands on it!

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Upcoming Classics (source - Jazzmatazz):

Benny Goodman - 1942-44 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1335) Mar 16

Anita O'Day - 1950-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1336) Mar 16

Mildred Bailey - 1945-47 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1337) Mar 16

Stan Getz - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1338) Mar 16

Bill Coleman - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1339) Mar 16

Lightnin' Hopkins - 1949-50 (Chronological R&B Classics 5079) Mar 16

NEW Jimmy Witherspoon - 1948-49 (Chronological R&B Classics 5080) Mar 16

NEW King Perry - 1945-49 (Chronological R&B Classics 5081) Mar 16

Coleman Hawkins - 1950-53 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1340) Apr 20

Erroll Garner - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1341) Apr 20

Hot Lips Page - 1950-53 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1342) Apr 20

Valaida Snow - 1940-53 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1343) Apr 20

Billy Taylor - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1344) Apr 20

NEW Elmore James - 1951-53 (Chronological R&B Classics 5082) Apr 20

NEW Jo-Jo Adams - 1946-53 (Chronological R&B Classics 5083) Apr 20

Ruth Brown - 1951-53 (Chronological R&B Classics 5084) Apr 20

NEW Jimmy Rushing - 1946-53 (Chronological R&B Classics 5085) Apr 20

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Recent Classics releases -2004:

Artie Shaw - 1945-46 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1330) Feb 17

Frankie Trumbauer - 1936-46 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1331) Feb 17

Red Nichols - 1929 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1332) Feb 17

Helen Humes - 1948-50 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1333) Feb 17

Herman Chittison - 1945-50 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1334) Feb 17

Sherman Williams - 1947-51 (Chronological R&B Classics 5076) Feb 17

Amos Milburn - 1948-49 (Chronological R&B Classics 5077) Feb 17

Big Bill Broonzy - 1949-51 (Chronological R&B Classics 5078) Feb 17

Gene Ammons - 1949-50 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1329) Jan 20

Sidney Bechet - 1950-51 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1326) Jan 20

Tommy Dorsey - 1939, Vol. 3 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1327) Jan 20

Ella Fitzgerald - 1952 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1328) Jan 20

Lester Young - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1325) Jan 20

Hal Singer - 1948-51 (Chronological R&B Classics 5073) Jan 20

T-Bone Walker - 1947-50 (Chronological R&B Classics 5074) Jan 20

Joe Lutcher - 1947 (Chronological R&B Classics 5075) Jan 20

(source: Jazzmatazz):

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Upcoming Classics (source - Jazzmatazz):

Benny Goodman - 1942-44 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1335) Mar 16

Anita O'Day - 1950-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1336) Mar 16

Mildred Bailey - 1945-47 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1337) Mar 16

Stan Getz - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1338) Mar 16

Bill Coleman - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1339) Mar 16

Lightnin' Hopkins - 1949-50 (Chronological R&B Classics 5079) Mar 16

NEW Jimmy Witherspoon - 1948-49 (Chronological R&B Classics 5080) Mar 16

NEW King Perry - 1945-49 (Chronological R&B Classics 5081) Mar 16

Coleman Hawkins - 1950-53 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1340) Apr 20

Erroll Garner - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1341) Apr 20

Hot Lips Page - 1950-53 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1342) Apr 20

Valaida Snow - 1940-53 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1343) Apr 20

Billy Taylor - 1951-52 (Chronological Jazz Classics 1344) Apr 20

NEW Elmore James - 1951-53 (Chronological R&B Classics 5082) Apr 20

NEW Jo-Jo Adams - 1946-53 (Chronological R&B Classics 5083) Apr 20

Ruth Brown - 1951-53 (Chronological R&B Classics 5084) Apr 20

NEW Jimmy Rushing - 1946-53 (Chronological R&B Classics 5085) Apr 20

The release date listed looks like being the U.S. one.

All these Classics have appeared recently in the Paris shops.

Got hold of the Mildred Bailey 1945-1947 CD last week.

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