Dan Gould Posted December 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 I intended starting a discussion, not the end. Please, those of you in small rooms - respond and put me in my place. "One Sound", please start the discussion. This aimed at me, Chuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Storer Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 I'm not bothered if someone throws in a couple of items that are not strictly jazz but have some tangential relationship. This forum being what it is, there is little likelihood of a blindfold test not having a large majority of items that are clearly "jazz." Therefore I think we should be cool and not start setting up rules when they're not really necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 [since they misunderstand the concept, some "jazz fans" abhor freedom and variety. Can't 'splain it myself, unless they find comfort in a small, cozy world. While I generally agree with Chuck here, I will add that there's nothing wrong with "finding comfort in a small, cozy world." One likes what one likes. There are a lot of "styles" of jazz, and there's no reason that someone must dig them all. While I like some of the freer and more a-g jazz, it's not really my cuppa. But at the same time I can't wait for a blindfold test from someone who really digs a-g and compiles a selection of tracks that he thinks us more conservative jazz fans might like. I'm ready and willing to be turned on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 I pretty much agree with Dan's #2, but fall on the Chucky, RDK, and AfricaBrass side of #1. I think a disc should be mostly jazz, but a Fela track, or James Brown, or a Ray Charles thrown in just for kicks - absolutely. Doesn't even need to be something for major discussion in the blindfold sense, but if it's short and makes the mix more fun - absolutely. Sometthing tangentially related but not directly "jazz?" - absolutely. There's always something musically interesting to discuss, if you pick good music, so just pick good music. Didn't we have a whole thread here on James Brown bass lines? (But, sure, keep most of it jazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 wow, after my first blindfold test inclusion with jim's two-fer (hard work) i'd have to agree that anything this side of heavy metal goes, but maybe not? how many kids put on "rikki don't lose that number" and went on to having more horace silver than steely dan in their collections? after seeing some of the negative feedback in the BFT #4 thread maybe we should limit it to "dinner jazz". there are more than three sounds in the naked city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 (edited) A couple of weeks ago, in the Selection Process Thread, I posted up some similar sentiments and got raked: I'm in agreement with Dan's suggestion and would like to make one more point. When doing these, because it's going to out a lot of people, we need to appeal to as broad tastes as possible. I'm not saying the least common denominator, but just remember the audience you're targetting. . Couw wrote in reply: I'm sorry, but I do not agree. I think it is up to the compiler to make her/his choices. No taste is broad enough that it cannot do with a little prodding it even wider by confronting it with new things outside of it. Just another opinion... :rha . In retrospect, I agree and believe we should follows those view here. Edited December 9, 2003 by Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Yeah, I guess I'm open to just about anything as well. Afterall, I'm not the one making the cds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Dan, reading your comments here in the other thread I am afraid that part of my upcoming selections may be as "offensive" to your ears as some of Jim's choices. I can assure you that I stayed inside the commonly accepted boundaries of jazz (wherever those may lie), but still... I do hope you will keep up the good faith in this Blindfold Institution. And I do hope you will go to the trouble of reacting on all the tracks that come to your ears in this context. Your fervour in pulling this whole thing off cannot be easily compensated and yet we try; we also try to give it our own twist as the very concept demands it, though. So stay with us and keep your good humour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Couw, I well understand that the music other people want to share may be far afield from the jazz I myself like. What started this thread, partially, was my surprise at hearing JB and Marvin Gaye on Jim's discs. I accept that there are areas of jazz I don't get into (even if Chuck can't accept that fact and wants to give me shit about it)-my objection lies in going outside even the widest definition of jazz. But hey, everyone can do what everyone wants to do-no one is looking over their shoulders when they make up their discs. And I will continue to participate, don't worry about that. I just may have higher hopes for, say, Brad's disc than Rooster's This reminds me of a topic I wanted to launch ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Regarding JB (if that in fact is who it is) and "going outside even the widest definition of jazz", when the "supporting cast" (ie - arranger and bandleader) are revealed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 What?! you mean it's the Texan Whistling Smilies? Who'd-a-thunk THAT?! WILD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyhersom Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Should several people decide that the Blindfold Test as is is not for them, they could set up a special interest Blindfold Test. Meanwhile I am of the opinion that less rules is better in the absence of such a schism. I personally will stay within the jazz and vocals record bins, and any vocalists would be commonly considered jazz vocalists, for all of my first CD. If I do any genre-bending, it will be on CD2, and I'm not sure I will. But I am sure that it can be done well and open the ears of at least a few people with preconceptions in the way. The track that is presumed to be JB is jazz. It's soul too, but its jazz. Likewise, I'll be including a good mix of the rather familiar and the obscure, but the BT was started by a fellow with something to say that precluded using a lot of familiar material. I ain't giving back my BF #1 disc. Thanks Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Bring on what you've got! I enjoy hearing new things and widening my aural experiences. Hey, the worst that can happen is that I make a dumb guess. I've done enough stupid things in my lifetime that a few more won't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 I'll have to disagree about the JB (if that's who it is) but even if it's considered "jazz" for the reasons Jim alludes to, the Marvin Gaye (if that's who that is) has no place in the Blindfold Tests. This is Organissimo, not Soul-issimo. I think something should be remotely jazz and in my view, the latter track doesn't qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 I'll have to disagree about the JB (if that's who it is) but even if it's considered "jazz" for the reasons Jim alludes to, the Marvin Gaye (if that's who that is) has no place in the Blindfold Tests. This is Organissimo, not Soul-issimo. I think something should be remotely jazz and in my view, the latter track doesn't qualify. Personally, I think it's MORE "jazz" (musically and emotionally) than 90% (at least!) of what passes for jazz these days , but on that I hope we can respectfully disagree. Myself, I'll take Marvin Gaye over Kurt Elling any day of the week (and twice on Sunday!). Now, that's not to say that Marvin was informed by bebop, but jazz is so much more than bebop. Marvin was DEEPLY influenced by Billie Holliday, and to me, it shows pretty clearly in a tune like the one included (if that in fact IS Marvin... ). But this matter should probably best be left for the Post-Answer-Revealing thread, which will be around early next week. This is indeed Organissimo, not Soul-issimo, but "organ jazz" and/or "soul jazz" would not be what it is today without Marvin Gaye (that phrasing, that nuance, that depth of feeling!) and James Brown (those grooves!). There's good reasons why those genres of jazz stayed popular when nearly all others struggled, and the influence of people like Gaye & JB (musically and culturally) are prime among them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 This is indeed Organissimo, not Soul-issimo, but "organ jazz" and/or "soul jazz" would not be what it is today without Marvin Gaye (that phrasing, that nuance, that depth of feeling!) and James Brown (those grooves!). There's good reasons why those genres of jazz stayed popular when nearly all others struggled, and the influence of people like Gaye & JB (musically and culturally) are prime among them. BadaBing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Klunk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Klook! (let's keep it jazz, ok?) JUST KIDDING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Frankly, taking Marvin over Kurt Elling is not an appealing choice. I was more of a Four Tops man myself. It would be hard to argue that soul didn't influence what we call soul jazz. I don't think that's the question. If it were, maybe someone should insert european classical music into a blindfold test. Obviously that went into the gumbo of what became jazz. The question is does Marvin belong in a jazz blindfold test. I don't think it does. Obviously, there are no hard and fast rules of what belongs on a test so it was your right to choose these songs. And don't get me wrong I didn't hate them. But I think there ought to be consensus that it's jazz in the blindfold tests, whether its' Baby Dodds, Zutty Singleton, Howard McGhee, Blue Mitchell, Jack McDuff, Brotzmann or jazz in all its variations, but jazz. Let the raking-me-over-the-coals now begin . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 ...maybe someone should insert european classical music into a blindfold test. Actually, not a bad idea, especially if somebody could do an Ellington/Delius juxtaposition that would illustrate the similarities that I used to keep hearing about but in my admittedly limited exposure to Delius have never actually caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Dye Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 In a music appreciation class I took in college years ago, I completed an assignment by presenting the class with this juxtaposition: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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