David Ayers

Classic Blue Notes on SHM-CD

1,276 posts in this topic

I'm not understanding why the Japanese would use older masterings when they have newer ones in their possession. There's no cost savings to doing so.

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It doesn't make much sense, but Universal Japan have done it before. In 2011, alongside the newly mastered late Coltrane Impulse SHM CDs, they release a batch of budget titles with 20bit K2 masterings. These K2 masterings had already been replaced once by 24bit 96kHz masterings in the early 2000s.


There was no overlap in material between SHM and budget releases. They complemented each other like the BN SHMs and the July 2015 batch.

Edited by erwbol

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I think you're going to discover a lot are RVGs or the earlier 24 bit masterings that appeared before the 75th anniversary series that many have complained about.

I had that thought too. But then that leaves a title like The Song of Singing in question. Was it ever an RVG or 24bit TOCJ?

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I think you're going to discover a lot are RVGs or the earlier 24 bit masterings that appeared before the 75th anniversary series that many have complained about.

I had that thought too. But then that leaves a title like The Song of Singing in question. Was it ever an RVG or 24bit TOCJ?

1998 BN Works (TOCJ-4353) and 2004 (24bit ?).

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Kenny Dorham------'Round about midnight at the Cafe Bohemia-------(TYCJ 81038)

Picked this up cheaply on a whim. I have the RVG but fancied the new mastering. It's exceptionally clear, almost sounding as if a different generation of tapes were the source. It's also nice hearing the LP tracks as originally conceived. 4 additional tracks are added giving 10 out of the 13 tunes ( excluding the 4 alternates) heard on the RVG.

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I think you're going to discover a lot are RVGs or the earlier 24 bit masterings that appeared before the 75th anniversary series that many have complained about.

I had that thought too. But then that leaves a title like The Song of Singing in question. Was it ever an RVG or 24bit TOCJ?

1998 BN Works (TOCJ-4353) and 2004 (24bit ?).

Song of Signing was reissued as a Japanese mini-LP RVG. I think it was 2003 / early 2004 as that was when the mini-LP reissue program ended.

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I missed both TOCJ 4353 and TOCJ 9572. I guess now's my chance to purchase the new Yoshio Bernie Van Gelder transfer!

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I have many of the original Blue Note CD issues done by Ron McMaster in the 80's, these CDs were made by transferring the one step analog master (two track analog tape) to digital.

To my ears many of them sound better than the RVG editions and 24bit TOCJ.

Can anyone confirm this?

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Your own ears are your own confirmation. If it sounds better to you, it is better for your listening.

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Universal Japan issued old masterings in November / December 2014 of Moanin' and The Sidewinder (which I purchased) - amongst other BN titles, whilst the SHM equivalents were still available. The release campaign covered Blue Note titles and other jazz labels existing under the Universal umbrella. This leads me to suspect that the BN titles to come will not be of the current master's generation. Plus, as someone mentioned earlier, there is no mention of the upcoming CDs being from 192/24 transfers.

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Wouldn't republishing the old masterings reduce demand for new masterings, thereby diminishing the possibility we will see SHM CD releases for the upcoming batch of titles any time soon?

Edited by monkboughtlunch

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Japan has a system that works well for their market, and little interest in other markets. . . . I don't always understand what they do, don't have enough information, but they have a strategy and implement it well.

Edited by jazzbo

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Has anyone picked up the SHM CD of Sweet Honey Bee? I saw a post months back that someone thought it might be from a tape source instead of the needle drop that plagued earlier CD releases. Can anyone confirm if this SHM CD features a tape source for the first time on CD?

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I have it. and have spun it a few times, haven't sat down and given it a real analytical listen. I have no way of "confirming" its source but to me it does not sound particularly like a needle drop. If it is, it is better done than the two previous cds.

Edited by jazzbo

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Cuscuna has verified that the Japanese master tape of "Sweet Honey Bee" is a dub of the US master tape, which is a needle drop. He even went so far as to get a copy of their tape for RVG to use on his US RVG CD. After extensive searching a couple of times in the past decades, it doesn't appear that there is a copy of this master tape that is not from the needle-dropped master. According to Cuscuna, the Japanese remove all evidence of the needle drop during the mastering, hence the assumption that it must be from a different master tape. It's not.

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Kevin, any word on whether the Blue Note and Prestige SHM series will continue in the future?

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Well, this SHM-CD is the Redbook copy to get then as it sounds best here to me, few lp artifacts to draw attention to themselves. A great Blue Note album however sourced.

Edited by jazzbo

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The mono Liberty LP of 'Sweet Honey Bee' is still the one to get, it would appear..

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The mono Liberty LP of 'Sweet Honey Bee' is still the one to get, it would appear..

That's what I have :)

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The mono Liberty LP of 'Sweet Honey Bee' is still the one to get, it would appear..

I totally agree....☺☺☺

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Cuscuna has verified that the Japanese master tape of "Sweet Honey Bee" is a dub of the US master tape, which is a needle drop. He even went so far as to get a copy of their tape for RVG to use on his US RVG CD. After extensive searching a couple of times in the past decades, it doesn't appear that there is a copy of this master tape that is not from the needle-dropped master. According to Cuscuna, the Japanese remove all evidence of the needle drop during the mastering, hence the assumption that it must be from a different master tape. It's not.

Kevin,

When did Cuscuna provide this information and was it specifically in regard to the SHM-CD of Sweet Honey Bee or an earlier reissue (such as the RVG CD)? Since Grundman is transferring the entire back catalog in this new "75th ann" series, is it not possible Grundman came across the master tape for Sweet Honey Bee in the vaults and it was used for this SHM title?

Also - if I understand your post correctly, the US RVG CD of Sweet Honey Bee is a dub of a dub of a dub of a vinyl record? For example: US makes a tape of vinyl record -> Japanese receive a tape copy of the US tape of vinyl record -> Cuscuna obtains a tape copy of the Japanese copy tape of US tape of vinyl record --> Rudy transfers a 3rd gen source for the RVG CD. Why didn't Cuscuna just put the word out to find a mint first press vinyl copy and do a new transfer for the RVG CD?

Well, this SHM-CD is the Redbook copy to get then as it sounds best here to me, few lp artifacts to draw attention to themselves. A great Blue Note album however sourced.

So are you saying you are hearing LP artifacts in the SHM CD?

Edited by monkboughtlunch

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No, that's not what I am saying. What I will say is that I listened to this cd a few times while doing other things and did not hear anything that made me think this was an LP transfer, it sounded better than the two earlier cds I had, and I really like it.

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Song of Signing was reissued ...

ASL_alphabet_gallaudet.jpg

Excellent reissue. Low volume though.

:crazy:;)

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Song of Signing was reissued ...

ASL_alphabet_gallaudet.jpg

Excellent reissue. Low volume though.

:crazy:;)

:D:D:D :D :D:D:D:D:D ....thanks for this reissue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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