Rooster_Ties Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 (edited) Been wanting to get a "James Spaulding" discussion going for a while. I sure wish he had been the leader on 2 or 3 dates himself, for Blue Note, in the 60's. Funny, I think only two of his own compositions appeared on record anytime in the 60's... "Kryptonite" from Wayne Shorter's "Schizophrenia" "A Time To Go" from Bobby Hutcherson's "Patterns" Here's what appears to be a pretty complete James Spaulding Sessionography, although it's in French. Here's a translated version - although beware, the translation software screws with song titles and even the names of people sometimes. Edited April 15, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 PS: I had a tough time picking only 10 specific albums with Spaulding, so I combined several that seemed similar. If there's one particular album that he really stands out on for you, please post it to this thread - if it's isn't a choice of it's own up above. I haven't voted yet, but over the last few months I've found myself playing back specific Spaulding solos, to marvel at his playing. In no particular order, the standouts for me are "Solid", "Soothsayer"/"Schizophrenia", and the list of 'progressive' dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Man, these are getting tough. I almost went for the Duke Pearson, but on second thought, the early Hubbard sessions were superior and more consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vibes Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 I voted for "Solid" - what a kick-ass record. The whole group does it all for me. This is probably in my top 10 BN albums. The Freddie Hubbard period with "Hub-tones" and "Breaking Point" is a close second, to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Cool thread, Rooster Ties! I went for Mobley's Slice Off the Top. I really like what he added to that session. Warning. Don't bring up Spaulding on the AAJ board around DEEP. I did, and we had a pretty funny exchange. My favorite DEEP quote about Spaulding: JAMES SPAULDING SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO PLAY IN PUBLIC. (NO, STRIKE THAT) HE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE!! I feel vindicated (somewhat) that you started this thread. I've enjoyed Spaulding's Blue Note work in the past and I was afraid I was missing something. I've even got one of his MUSE albums. :rsmile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBop Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Please don't take this as a 'slam' of Spaulding, but: Each night, before I go to bed, I pray that I will wake up liking (or, at least, understanding/accepting) Spaulding. Then I could thoroughly enjoy all of these otherwise-great recordings. (Well, I'm not much of a Mobley fan either, but at least I understand/accept his approach. The man articulates like he's got a mouthful of ball bearings.) Hey, to each his/her own. It took me a while to appreciate some other players that I now REALLY love, so, perhaps, someday... As my mother would say, more Spaulding left over for those of you who dig him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Some years ago I visited the Jazz Festival in Moers. JP. was a geat player as a member of the fantastic David Murray Big Band. It is a pity that only CDs of him are published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 (edited) I was never very keen on Spaulding until I heard him with David Murray. He seemed to fit right in there, he didn't always sound comfortable to me on some of those 60s dates. Maybe he was a man out of place or time. Murray usually mentions The Night Of The Cookers and Louis Armstrong's "Its A Wonderful World" when he intoduces Spaulding. Not a bad heritage. Edited April 15, 2003 by JohnS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 I wanted so much to vote for the 'progressive' albums (which I love), but I kept thinking more and more about "Solid", and how incredible Joe Henderson and Spaulding sound together. So, I did it - I voted for "Solid". Hope that isn't considered "wimping out", cuz "Solid" is still fairly progressive for a Grant Green date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 I've had 'Solid' on a lot recently, and I really enjoy Spaulding's playing on it. I'm in the camp of those who haven't quite been completely sold on the guy, but with a bit of work, I can see that happening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 (edited) Hey Chuck... I'm curious about your thoughts on Mr. Spaulding. I suspect you probably like him a fair bit, especially in the more progressive (or at least hard-driving) contexts. ========== I'm starting to get the impression that Spaulding was sometimes capable of playing 'kinda-sorta' in the same ballpark as Jackie (particularly on "All Seeing Eye" and "Natural Selection" --- and I'll hafta spin the Larry Young and Sam Rivers again soon, I haven't heard them in a while). In particular, there's one solo that Spaulding plays on "All Seeing Eye" (track 3 = "Chaos") where I really thought it could have been Jackie (I even looked at the CD case to confirm that it wasn't Jackie), even if the language wasn't quite the same - I thought the 'fire' was just as hot, and the ideas were just as strong (and strangely enough, the tone was a little similar). In particular, Chuck, do you think Spaulding would have been deserving of getting to be the leader on a couple Blue Note dates, back in the day, say sometime around 1965 or 1966?? Maybe it's just the contexts Spaulding plays in (which I like so much), but in some ways I think Spaulding is my second favorite alto player on the 60's BN roster. In fact - who else was there (on alto, on BN, in the 60's)?? Sonny Red?? I like Red, sure (particularly on the mid-60's Byrd dates), but he's not quite Spaulding in terms of versitility --- I don't think Red did any progressive dates. Who else?? I must be forgetting one or two alto players on BN. I can more easily think of tenors - maybe BN was more tenor-heavy that decade?? Surely there must be at least one more than just Jackie, Spaulding, and Red?? Who am I forgetting?? Not Bartz - he never did a BN date that I can think of. No wait, he was on a couple Tyner dates, but very late in the 60's. Who else played alto on BN during the pre-Liberty era?? (but after, say, about 1960) Edited April 17, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 (edited) By the way, maybe I should mention that as much as I'm a fan of Spaulding on all the 'progressive' dates, "Solid", the Hutchersons, the Shorters, and most of the Pearsons... I'm really not much of a fan of Spaulding's work on Freddie Hubbard's early BN albums. Nothing really wrong with his playing, but I don't find it all that inspiring there. (I've never heard any of the late 60's Hubbard albums (with Spaulding), so I'm not sure if this is common to all of Hubbard's albums.) Maybe I should also mention that I'm also not a huge fan of Hubbard's own dates on Blue Note. Some are good, but others don't really do as much for me. I guess they're 'good' too, but certainly not 'great' in my book. I am, however, a *huge* fan of nearly every sideman appearance by Hubbard, on Blue Note, especially the more 'progressive' dates. Long post made short - I don't think Hubbard brought out the best in Spaulding. And I especially don't care for Spaulding's flute work on the Hubbard albums in particular. But (IMHO), Spaulding's flute in other contexts is fine with me -- for instance I like it quite well on the Tyrone Washington album. Edited April 17, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 (edited) Yeah, I think you're right about all of Kyner's solos on BN being better than all of Spaulding's work as a sideman with Hubbard. But, (fairly or not), I usually mostly blame this on Hubbard - since most of the Hubbard/Spaulding dates fall flat for me, all the way around. (Hard for Spaulding to make it happen if the date ain't happening in the first place, is my take on things.) Sometimes Spaulding is on fire, but (truthfully) his BN work is probably inconsistant. But then, for me, all of Hubbard's sideman dates on BN are all better than any of Hubbard's own dates, so that's inconsistant too. ( And, oh yeah, Donaldson!! He didn't do any sideman dates on any progressive titles, so I forget about him easily. I have only a smattering of Donaldson's BN work, either as a leader, or sideman dates. He's not high on my radar, right or wrong. ) Thinking of other alto's on BN, there's Leo Wright, who I only know from Blue Mitchel's very first album, the one with Joe Henderson. Oh wait, I see on AMG he's also on "Little Johnny C" - which I forgot, but Joe's on that one too, so I guess I blurred the two together. I really like Wright's playing, at least from what's on these two albums (which is the only Wright I've heard). Are there any other alto's on BN as sidemen, even if just a one or two-shot appearance - like Leo Wright?? Edited April 17, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 (edited) Oh yeah, Ornette. Mentally I usually don't think of him as a BN artist, since so much of his work was for other labels. Also, he wasn't really part of that pool of musicians (IMO). But then again, he is on "Old and New Gospel" -- but not on alto!!!! Edited April 17, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent, Paris Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 Who else played alto on BN during the pre-Liberty era?? (but after, say, about 1960) Dolphy did ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 Oh yeah, another obvious one. I think I do the same thing with Dolphy as Ornette - since 95% of their output is on other labels, and since neither one recorded as a sideman on any other BN dates (except "Point of Departure" and "New and Old Gospel"), I mentally just think of them as not being part of the Blue Note, or at least not at their core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 I'm responding late, 'cause I ignored the thread. You are not going to like my response. I voted for Jody Grind 'cause he's only on half of it and that's about enough of his "spice" before I get tired of it. He is an addition to the tunes he's on, but Horace was right to limit the exposure. He's obviously a talented musician, he just doesn't match with my sensibilities. For me he lowers some dates(Jody Grind would attract me less without JS), elevates others. I think I'd like "All Seeing Eye" a lot more without Mr. Spaulding. Spaulding and Curtis Fuller are the wrong people for "Schizophrenia" in my opinion, as well. I slept on this date for 30 years because of them - if only Wayne and the rhythm section had better hornmates.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 (edited) Hi Chuck. Appreciate your honest opinion - even when it differs from mine. (And lord knows there's musicians I've never connected with, even after years and years of trying. I still struggle to really catch the Coltrane bug, even though I'm all over Ornette (his entire career), Joe Henderson (nearly everything, including most of his Milestone output), and damn near every note Wayne Shorter recorded between 1965 and 1970, including all the Miles bootlegs. I have nothing but the deepest respect for Trane, and do like his music (quite a bit, up through about 1963), even if I don't 'love' it.) And hey Chuck, if you don't mind me asking you specifically, what do you think of "Solid"?? I voted for it in this Spaulding pole, despite all my leanings towards the more 'progressive' dates. I really think it's Spaulding's most successful BN date. Also, I think I like it as much as I do, cuz Henderson and Spaulding make an interesting pairing, IMHO. Wish they had recorded together more - although they did on a number of the Duke Pearson dates. At least let me know if you think "Solid" works better for you (specifically Spaulding's contribution), than Spaulding's work on "Schizophrenia". Thanks!! Also, Chuck, are there any alto players, (besides Spaulding), from the 60's - who you think would have fit better into the Blue Note fold? - better than Spaulding?? I'm looking for names to follow-up on, of people who's music I don't really know as much as I should. Thanks (again). Cheers! Edited April 22, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 I just caught up to this thread after a few days away. I will listen to Solid tomorrow and let you know. I need to think about other alto players of the '60s to answer that question. Being in Chicago and listening to Jarman, Mitchell and Braxton at the time, I need to think NYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted April 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Thanks Chuck, looking forward to it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Other alto playing sidemen on BN brings to mind Clarence Sharp, and Kenny Rodgers, who were on early Lee Morgan BN dates. Neither were particularly memorable, though, IMHO. Actually, the former's intonation was memorable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alankin Posted April 26, 2003 Report Share Posted April 26, 2003 The name of that album I referred to a few posts back was GOTSTABE A BETTER WAY on Muse label, recorded in May '88 with Ron Carter, Mulgrew Miller, Ray Mantilla, Monte Croft. Dunno if it's in print.... It's out-of-print, as are his three other Muse recordings. (I especially liked "Brilliant Corners.") Savoy now owns Muse; perhaps they'll reissue some of these. (Shameless plug: I may have extras of a couple of his Muse titles.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted April 26, 2003 Report Share Posted April 26, 2003 David - So you can confirm that Carl Brown was a real guy and not a pseudonym for Charlie Haden, as suggested by some here: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...7&hl=carl+brown Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 So it seems Spaulding is one of those players you either love or don't..... I always liked him, he was one of my favourite alto players from the first time I heard him (which was on Freddie Hubbard's Breaking Point, a friend of mine had that at the time). I voted for the "progressive dates" because the Rivers date would have been my single choice date. The originally unreleased date with Hutcherson, Patterns (?) is nice too. That he and Joe Chambers - who had even grteater potential as a composer than Spaulding - didn't get their Blue Note dates is one of Alfred Lion's greatest mistakes, in my opinion. Jackie McLean, OTOH, never really got to me - couldn't stand his intonation. Always liked Dolphy. And Bartz. When Spaulding had his first date as a leader, in the 1970's for Storyville, I was disappointed because it was a straightahead Ellingtonia thing. And the Muse dates are nice, but not overwhelming. Maybe he missed the right point in time. With Hubbard it always sounded to me like Freddie kept him down a little so he couldn't steal the show - Freddie certainly had the bigger ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Hey Chuck... Who else played alto on BN during the pre-Liberty era?? (but after, say, about 1960) There was an obscure altoist who made an obscure record for Blue Note, Cannonball Adderly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.