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BFT 139 discussion

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Looking forward to this. Your last one was fun, educational ........ and expensive :)

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Track 1: Richie Cole?

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Track 2 is an ECM recording but I can't pinpoint it yet. If it isnt, it should be

I need track 15 in my home! I hope it's not from some dreadfully obscure LP

Edited by mjazzg

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It's not an ECM recording; but you're on the right track ;)

Track 15 is from a fairly, but not dreadfully, obscure album haha...

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So, at work, a one-time listen.  Some I liked... some I didn't.  All new to me.

Track 01 - Man, I had an instant negative response to this.  Then it softened, then returned.  Very edgy alto, but not in a way I find appealing.  Has the cerebral attack of Bennie Green, but the rhythm is not there.  And the keys are just... just... don't.  Melodica?  I mean, kudos for originality, but this one isn't really working for me.  I want to like the bass, but it's more like it rubs me less than the rest.  Drums are cooking, but I'm fighting with the rest of it so much that I really can't appreciate them adequately.  The articulation/rhythm have the element that drives me nuts about Rudresh Mahanthappa.

Track 02 - This has my interest instantly.  Has that cerebral feel of great solo piano (Waldron, Tapscott), but it's someone new than that.  Ah, now some tasteful addition from the rest of the rhythm section.  Seems to lose a bit of the originality it had in the intro, but I like where it's going.  Very reserved, but tasteful in what develops.  The conversation between the piano and bass is quite lovely.  

Track 03 - 3/4, I'm in.  Mix is strange (both horns in the right channel), but digging that piano comping.  The muted trumpet with the tenor playing the unison line really creates a nice effect.  Oh!  Wait, that's a Varitone!  NICE!  And an alto if my ears are correct... yes!  Capable player but s/he is being too controlled (part of the varitone experience) for the atmosphere created by the rhythm section.  Man, I'm DIGGING this tune.  So few guys I can think of who played the alto-varitone combo.  Paul Jeffries?

Track 04 - Beatrice, but a bold-bodied tenor.  Odd, there's a Getz influence, but there is also an influence of those fat-toned guys (Webster, Golson... even Mark Shim), as well.  Guitar isn't doing much for me, but the arrangement of piano-guitar-sax is interesting.  Pianist has that right mix of classical influence to make this work nicely (such a GREAT tune).  Was that a pocket quote of In Walked Bud from the tenor?  Something about the rhythm/articulations leads me to believe this is a European saxophonist.  Maybe somebody like Jesper Thilo.  This one sticks with me.

Track 05 - This will get me in trouble, but, white guys trying to play a native American motif.  That's what hits me.  It doesn't really work.  Good players, but it's just not working.  

Track 06 - This one works.  Needle drop that has that organic feel of one of the Cadence dates.  I like the way the bass is working independently of the drums, but still being complementary.  Honest trumpet work, very thoughtful.  Swings with a hard edge to it, kind of the way Andrew Cyrille would do it, but it's not him.  This has the feel of the early Ornette quartet (not them).  This is nice.  I could go back to this a lot.  I feel like I know this alto player, but I can't peg him.  He's a border guy (not completely inside, not complete out).  

Track 07 - Something here sounds decidedly Getz, but it's not him.  Nice ballad, but the saxophonist is trying too hard to be Getz on the head, to my ear.  Loving the rhythm section.  Saxophonist isn't really saying much, to my ear.  

Track 08 - Has that late-70s feel (think Muse Records).  Can't ID the soprano, but very positively representative of the period I described.  Could be someone like Rene McLean.  Can't tell if that's another varitone in the other channel, or just a deeper horn.  I'll throw out a guess -- Mike Carvin on drums.  

Track 09 - Is that melodica, AGAIN?  Sounds like In A Silent Way... or am I nuts?  Ooooo!  Tasty!  A touch of the middle east, but that bass vamp with the violin over the top really grabs my ears.  Heavily orchestrated/arranged... but it works.  I'm really waiting for it to break free, though.  Reminds me of some of the later John Handy stuff (no doubt the instrumentation is contributing to that).  Not sure if it's maintaining my interest.  I'm getting frustrated with the arranged aspect of the tune.  It seems to be trying to maintain that feel with a disorganized looseness... it may even be working, but I think I'm going to have to come back to it.  One listen isn't going to be enough.

Track 10 - Electronica is simply not my bag.  This might be very creative, but I'm just not into it.  

Track 11 - Overdubbed horns?  Doesn't really grab me.  I like when we switch over to a clarinet choir, but the lead clarinet is still, well... a clarinet.  Meh... doesn't really work.

Track 12 - Aaaaah... a return to something that flows.  Feel works well, but I'm on ear buds, and that pianist is just jabbing my left ear.  The guitar is tasteful and right in the groove.  Drums are busy, but in a good way for the tune.  I'm struggling to hear the bass, but he's really holding down the harmonic progression for the tune, which is quite lovely.  Just twisted my left ear bud, and this is great!  Once the piano stopped dominating, the rest of the band is really cooking!  

Track 13 - Gives me the distinct impression of Sonny Blount's band.  Not sure which album, but I'm pretty confident with the Arkestra guess.

Track 14 - Snappy brushes Jazz... nothing "wrong" with it, but not my bag.  Even when we get into the "free" section, that's not really grabbing me.  Clarinet is hard.  

Track 15 - This definitely owes a nod to Peace Piece, but I'm all in.  Loving it.  Gutsy flute.  There is NOTHING not to love here.  It's neither Yusef nor Fathead, though I hear elements of both.  Man, what happen to guys playing like this!??!?!  

Track 16 - Aw yeah.  Rhodes!  Nice!  Bitchin' trumpet.  Can't quite place the tenor, but I should have better idea... lots of trademarks, but I'm missing the ID.  Maybe that's it... lot's of trademarks that belong to others... hmmm.... This works, though.  I'm down with it. 

Thanks for the ear challenge!

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Track 12. Sonny Greenwich?

Track 14. A cover of Steve Lacy's "Blinks." By Dave Douglas I'm guessing.

I love that version of "Beatrice." Is that a ring modulator on Track 10?

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track 13.  sun ra 'New Horizons' from 'We Travel the Spaceways' 1956. there's a different version of the tune on 'Jazz by Sun Ra' 1956.

 

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Correct on track 13!

 

 

Track 12. Sonny Greenwich?

Track 14. A cover of Steve Lacy's "Blinks." By Dave Douglas I'm guessing.

I love that version of "Beatrice." Is that a ring modulator on Track 10?

track 12 is not Greenwich..

track 14 is Dave Douglas; correct!

So, at work, a one-time listen.  Some I liked... some I didn't.  All new to me.

Track 01 - Man, I had an instant negative response to this.  Then it softened, then returned.  Very edgy alto, but not in a way I find appealing.  Has the cerebral attack of Bennie Green, but the rhythm is not there.  And the keys are just... just... don't.  Melodica?  I mean, kudos for originality, but this one isn't really working for me.  I want to like the bass, but it's more like it rubs me less than the rest.  Drums are cooking, but I'm fighting with the rest of it so much that I really can't appreciate them adequately.  The articulation/rhythm have the element that drives me nuts about Rudresh Mahanthappa.

Track 02 - This has my interest instantly.  Has that cerebral feel of great solo piano (Waldron, Tapscott), but it's someone new than that.  Ah, now some tasteful addition from the rest of the rhythm section.  Seems to lose a bit of the originality it had in the intro, but I like where it's going.  Very reserved, but tasteful in what develops.  The conversation between the piano and bass is quite lovely.  

Track 03 - 3/4, I'm in.  Mix is strange (both horns in the right channel), but digging that piano comping.  The muted trumpet with the tenor playing the unison line really creates a nice effect.  Oh!  Wait, that's a Varitone!  NICE!  And an alto if my ears are correct... yes!  Capable player but s/he is being too controlled (part of the varitone experience) for the atmosphere created by the rhythm section.  Man, I'm DIGGING this tune.  So few guys I can think of who played the alto-varitone combo.  Paul Jeffries?

Track 04 - Beatrice, but a bold-bodied tenor.  Odd, there's a Getz influence, but there is also an influence of those fat-toned guys (Webster, Golson... even Mark Shim), as well.  Guitar isn't doing much for me, but the arrangement of piano-guitar-sax is interesting.  Pianist has that right mix of classical influence to make this work nicely (such a GREAT tune).  Was that a pocket quote of In Walked Bud from the tenor?  Something about the rhythm/articulations leads me to believe this is a European saxophonist.  Maybe somebody like Jesper Thilo.  This one sticks with me.

Track 05 - This will get me in trouble, but, white guys trying to play a native American motif.  That's what hits me.  It doesn't really work.  Good players, but it's just not working.  

Track 06 - This one works.  Needle drop that has that organic feel of one of the Cadence dates.  I like the way the bass is working independently of the drums, but still being complementary.  Honest trumpet work, very thoughtful.  Swings with a hard edge to it, kind of the way Andrew Cyrille would do it, but it's not him.  This has the feel of the early Ornette quartet (not them).  This is nice.  I could go back to this a lot.  I feel like I know this alto player, but I can't peg him.  He's a border guy (not completely inside, not complete out).  

Track 07 - Something here sounds decidedly Getz, but it's not him.  Nice ballad, but the saxophonist is trying too hard to be Getz on the head, to my ear.  Loving the rhythm section.  Saxophonist isn't really saying much, to my ear.  

Track 08 - Has that late-70s feel (think Muse Records).  Can't ID the soprano, but very positively representative of the period I described.  Could be someone like Rene McLean.  Can't tell if that's another varitone in the other channel, or just a deeper horn.  I'll throw out a guess -- Mike Carvin on drums.  

Track 09 - Is that melodica, AGAIN?  Sounds like In A Silent Way... or am I nuts?  Ooooo!  Tasty!  A touch of the middle east, but that bass vamp with the violin over the top really grabs my ears.  Heavily orchestrated/arranged... but it works.  I'm really waiting for it to break free, though.  Reminds me of some of the later John Handy stuff (no doubt the instrumentation is contributing to that).  Not sure if it's maintaining my interest.  I'm getting frustrated with the arranged aspect of the tune.  It seems to be trying to maintain that feel with a disorganized looseness... it may even be working, but I think I'm going to have to come back to it.  One listen isn't going to be enough.

Track 10 - Electronica is simply not my bag.  This might be very creative, but I'm just not into it.  

Track 11 - Overdubbed horns?  Doesn't really grab me.  I like when we switch over to a clarinet choir, but the lead clarinet is still, well... a clarinet.  Meh... doesn't really work.

Track 12 - Aaaaah... a return to something that flows.  Feel works well, but I'm on ear buds, and that pianist is just jabbing my left ear.  The guitar is tasteful and right in the groove.  Drums are busy, but in a good way for the tune.  I'm struggling to hear the bass, but he's really holding down the harmonic progression for the tune, which is quite lovely.  Just twisted my left ear bud, and this is great!  Once the piano stopped dominating, the rest of the band is really cooking!  

Track 13 - Gives me the distinct impression of Sonny Blount's band.  Not sure which album, but I'm pretty confident with the Arkestra guess.

Track 14 - Snappy brushes Jazz... nothing "wrong" with it, but not my bag.  Even when we get into the "free" section, that's not really grabbing me.  Clarinet is hard.  

Track 15 - This definitely owes a nod to Peace Piece, but I'm all in.  Loving it.  Gutsy flute.  There is NOTHING not to love here.  It's neither Yusef nor Fathead, though I hear elements of both.  Man, what happen to guys playing like this!??!?!  

Track 16 - Aw yeah.  Rhodes!  Nice!  Bitchin' trumpet.  Can't quite place the tenor, but I should have better idea... lots of trademarks, but I'm missing the ID.  Maybe that's it... lot's of trademarks that belong to others... hmmm.... This works, though.  I'm down with it. 

Thanks for the ear challenge!

interesting reactions!

 

track 3 is not Paul Jeffries, but it is an alto player.  Also track 8 had neither McLean nor Carvin.

track 4 is an American saxophonist!

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Track 4 is "Beatrice" by Sam Rivers, from one of his Nato label CD's with Tony Hymas.

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How do all these people know about Sonny Greenwich? 

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I put a Greenwich track on my first BFT from a year or so ago.  Both Bhreandain and I are Canadian too which maybe helps our awareness of him?

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I used to see him play in Montreal 50 years ago. 

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Very cool!  So that's like 8 years before I was born :)

 

I used a track off his "sun song" album for my earlier BFT...

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How do all these people know about Sonny Greenwich? 

He's pretty well-known among jazz fans north of the border.

I put a Greenwich track on my first BFT from a year or so ago.  Both Bhreandain and I are Canadian too which maybe helps our awareness of him?

I liked that track from your last BFT so much that I bought the album (Sun Song).

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I find several of these compelling, and #8 is a "must get it as soon as it is revealed" thing.  Hopefully it is in print and not outrageously expensive, or even better yet, already sitting on my shelves somewhere. #12 isn't far behind (and I've been a Sonny Greenwich fan for decades), and I like #6, #15, and #16 quite a bit also, and anxiously await their identities.   I do have to admit that some of the others (especially #10) just leave me scratching my head.

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Track 4 is "Beatrice" by Sam Rivers, from one of his Nato label CD's with Tony Hymas.

Rivers confounds me.  There are many times when I love him and in general I think extremely highly of him.  There are other times where his work just falls flat with me.  I've read where others have complained about engineers inability to capture his sound effectively and wonder if that is part of the issue.  I would not have guessed this was him.

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I think that Track 2 is the title cut from this:

 

708.JPG

 

I think that Track 3 is "Five Four Three" from this Lee Konitz album:

MI0001490308.jpg

 

I think that Track 11 is "En El Campo" from this:

R-655584-1227115302.jpeg.jpg

 

I know that #13 is Sun Ra's "New Horizons", from more than one early album. I love early Sun Ra! Thanks for including it.

I think that Track 15 is "Burungkaka Tua" from this:

61AGLjqHK-L._SS280.jpg

Track 4 is "Beatrice" by Sam Rivers, from one of his Nato label CD's with Tony Hymas.

Rivers confounds me.  There are many times when I love him and in general I think extremely highly of him.  There are other times where his work just falls flat with me.  I've read where others have complained about engineers inability to capture his sound effectively and wonder if that is part of the issue.  I would not have guessed this was him.

There is a lovely track on that album featuring Rivers on flute. I have not heard the album in a long time and would have to go back and listen again to identify which track it is.

Edited by Hot Ptah

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You are correct!  You got good ears!  Any guesses or comments on the remaining tracks?

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my 'must have' track 15 identified but I can't see the image.......I need to know

online search it could be Tony Scott?

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Thank you. Cheapest on Discogs currently £140 :( so will remain 'must have' for some time I think

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I think there's a slightly later pressing on mps/BASF that might be cheaper when it turns up?  The whole record is great IMO...

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