iTunes Blues

[mjzee]

Sometime last year, probably after an iTunes upgrade, I found that iTunes was copying my newly-ripped music to a different folder than I had it do to date.  I only realized this a few months after the change occurred.  So my music was now split between two different folders.  iTunes was keeping track of all this, so I could play all my music, but I knew this was a bad thing that I'd have to take care of at some point.  I just didn't want to deal with it, and didn't have to for a long time.  The time came, however, when I needed to migrate to a larger external hard drive.  I called Apple tech support, and they advised me to copy my music files to the new EHD, then open iTunes while holding down the option key - iTunes would then ask me where my music was, I would point to my new EHD, and all would be fine.  So I copied the older music folder, then meticulously combined the newer music folder into the old, then opened iTunes while holding down the option key...and it didn't work.  More time spent with Apple tech support.  They found some way to load the library (meaning the pointers to the files, not the actual files) into iTunes, and it worked.  I was happy.

However, yesterday I upgraded my iMac's operating system to El Capitan.  Then, when I opened iTunes, it couldn't find my music library.  More time spent today with Apple tech support.  They had me do something, and I'm now watching iTunes copy all my music into another folder ("iTunes Media") on my EHD.  This will take hours, and I don't have confidence that at the end of the process, I will have a functioning iTunes library.  I never thought Apple tech support could be hit or miss, but my current experience proves otherwise.

[xybert]

I have my iTunes music folder on an external HD, and every now and again it will default back to the iTunes music folder on my local HD (usually happens if i open iTunes before firing up my external HD, which makes sense of course). I've gotten in to the habit of double checking in the iTunes preferences before i rip a CD just to make sure. But, every now and again it happens when i least expect it and there's a few albums that i end up needing to move to the folder on my external HD. 

[John L]

Sounds complicated.   You do have your preferred drive selected as the default itunes drive.  Right.  And you have selected the option to have all your files copies to the default drive.  Right?

[mjzee]

You do have your preferred drive selected as the default itunes drive. 

Yes, it was (before the El Capitan upgrade); it's now pointing somewhere else, based on what today's tech support guy said.

And you have selected the option to have all your files copies to the default drive.

Yes, but that option is only for additions to the collection going forward.

I'll be able to to discuss more concretely once iTunes finishes loading my collection.

[mjzee]

OK, it's done doing whatever it wanted to do.  iTunes copied my entire music collection to the folder (EHD) / iTunes / iTunes Media, which is where all future rips and downloads will go.  The iTunes Library.itl file is in (EHD) / iTunes (so it's not in the iTunes Media folder, but rather one folder up).  I just now closed iTunes and reopened it, and it found my library, so that's good.  However, when I compare the size of my old Music folder and the new one that iTunes just created, I see about 18,000 fewer items in the new file.  I'll somehow need to do a comparison of the two folders to see what's missing.  Does anyone know of a good utility on the Mac that will do this?  

[mjzee]

16,164 of those items are now accounted for.  There is a folder named Album Artwork that was in my old Music folder but is not in my new one.  However, there is an Album Artwork folder in the (EHD) / iTunes folder (on the same level as my iTunes Library.itl file).  Since iTunes found and displays my album artwork, I assume this is OK.  This leaves 1,887 files unaccounted for, but there might be a similar innocuous explanation for these.  Still, I have to check.

I miss the days when a manual could explain all this for you.  These days, software is updated so frequently that I don't know how printed manuals can keep up.  I used to subscribe to Macworld, but they stopped printed magazines, moving to e-publishing, and I found I wasn't reading them.

[medjuck]

I don't understand most of this but it's scaring the shit out of me. 

[mjzee]

I don't understand most of this but it's scaring the shit out of me. 

Here's what I understand about how iTunes works:

1) Your music files exist on a folder on a hard drive.  They exist independent of iTunes or any other music organization software.

2) When you first start using iTunes, it asks where your music files are located.  It then builds its own index of those files (in a file it names iTunes Library.itl).  That index is what you see when you open iTunes.  So, really, iTunes is just a particular way to view your music files, coupled with a convenient way to play them.  

3) If you allow it to, it will also organize those music files for you.  It prefers that you allow it to.  In that case, it will actually copy your music files: it will create a folder (which it names iTunes Media) and subfolders for each artist.  So if you have Joe Albany albums in 3 different folders on two different hard drives, it will copy them all to one folder named Joe Albany, which is a subfolder under iTunes Media.

4) If, when you open iTunes, it cannot find the file iTunes Library.itl, it will ask for your help to find it.  >> If it cannot find this file, you will not see any of your music in iTunes. <<  Your music hasn't been erased; the files are still on the hard drive.  It's just that iTunes cannot see them.

5) In my case, after I upgraded to El Capitan,  iTunes didn't recognize that .itl file it had created just the day before.  I don't know why.  Instead of just rebuilding the file, it copied my music files to a new location and then rebuilt the file.  Note that it didn't move my music files, it just copied them, which is a good thing; I'd be more concerned if it moved the files, because then I wouldn't know if it lost any.  So now I compare my old music file folder to my new one and see a discrepancy in the total number of files, so I need to understand why that's so.

[mjzee]

I have to confess, I'm pretty ticked off about the information iTunes lost in the upgrade: Last Played, for example.  Totally lost.  Or the date an album was added; iTunes now lists last week as when all albums were added.  Or various playlists I made for friends, or tracks I want to include in future playlists; all gone.  It's a shame because it's those little things that make the iTunes experience so enjoyable; it's disheartening that this data can disappear in a flash.

I don't even think there's a way to separately save that data.

[JSngry]

Would the outcome have looked any different if your iTunes was on a not particularly personalized cloud drive instead of a more personalized physical one? Probably not, right?

Just curious, in the context of how software in general seems to be evolving away from "owning" into just "using'...it's interesting...

[xybert]

I have to confess, I'm pretty ticked off about the information iTunes lost in the upgrade: Last Played, for example.  Totally lost.  Or the date an album was added; iTunes now lists last week as when all albums were added.  Or various playlists I made for friends, or tracks I want to include in future playlists; all gone.  It's a shame because it's those little things that make the iTunes experience so enjoyable; it's disheartening that this data can disappear in a flash.

I don't even think there's a way to separately save that data.

This is one of the things that i fear happening when i eventually get a new computer. As trivial as it may seem, i find the playcount and 'date last played' info to be quite useful. I've always assumed that data will be lost when i install a new copy of the iTunes software on a new computer, however i haven't really investigated whether that data can be transferred or if it's stored in my 'profile' or whatever.

 

[mjzee]

Would the outcome have looked any different if your iTunes was on a not particularly personalized cloud drive instead of a more personalized physical one? Probably not, right?

Just curious, in the context of how software in general seems to be evolving away from "owning" into just "using'...it's interesting...

Note that if you have over 200 gb of music, the cost of iTunes Cloud Storage is $120/year (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201238).  I'm now inching towards 1 TB, which is how this all started: I needed to migrate to a larger EHD.  I don't see whether Apple will even allow you more than 1 TB.

[sonnymax]

What's so important about knowing how many times you've played a track, or when was the last time you listened to a particular tune? I'm not saying it shouldn't be important, I just don't understand the value of such info.

[Neal Pomea]

It's letting me burn a CD to iTunes and make a playlist that I can put on my iPod, but I can't play back any of my music stored in iTunes, It keeps saying it could not find the original file. Is this the same problem? Where are the files now? (Windows 7)

Edited October 6, 2015 by Neal Pomea

[bertrand]

I am about to copy all my music to an external, and eventually point iTunes to the external. So are you saying I will lose the playlists? I know where the music is stored on my local drive, but where are the playlists stored?

I need to clear my local drive which is almost full. I was going to copy the whole local drive to the external, then delete the music from the local drive. Since I assume the playlists are somewhere on C:, will this guarantee that iTunes will still recognize the playlists once I start pointing to the external? I also hope to just keep the external connected at all times.

Bertrand.

[xybert]

What's so important about knowing how many times you've played a track, or when was the last time you listened to a particular tune? I'm not saying it shouldn't be important, I just don't understand the value of such info.

I could live without it; it's not important, for sure, but i do find it handy.

It's just interesting to me sometimes. It can be interesting to see how many years it's been since you last played an album (it can be a bit scary sometimes) or how many times you've played an album or track. 

On a practical level, if i'm at a loss as to what i feel like listening to, sometimes i'll scan through and favour something that i haven't spun much or haven't spun for a long time. If i get a couple of box sets, the playcount can help me keep track of what discs i have and haven't listened to. 

 

I am about to copy all my music to an external, and eventually point iTunes to the external. So are you saying I will lose the playlists? I know where the music is stored on my local drive, but where are the playlists stored?

I need to clear my local drive which is almost full. I was going to copy the whole local drive to the external, then delete the music from the local drive. Since I assume the playlists are somewhere on C:, will this guarantee that iTunes will still recognize the playlists once I start pointing to the external? I also hope to just keep the external connected at all times.

Bertrand.

My understanding is that, if the content of the music folder is exactly the same, there shouldn't be an issue. I know that i didn't have an issue when i upgraded from a 1TB drive to a 2TB. Just copied the music folder from one HD to the next, then went to preferences and assigned the folder on the new HD as my music folder. The iTunes software doesn't care, it's just a slave. My understanding is that the playlists etc will always exist in the iTunes software unless you delete them in iTunes, issues will only occur it it can't 'find' the relevant music file because the file path has changed. It's like, you can 'delete' something from iTunes, but choose to keep the actual file. On the flipside, if you delete the actual file from your music folder but don't delete it from iTunes, or just move it somewhere random, next time you go to play it in iTunes it won't be able to find the file. 

EDIT: possibly better way to explain why it should be all good: If i open iTunes but i haven't fired up my external HD which has the music folder on it, iTunes goes "hey, where's all the music?'' but it doesn't freak out and delete all the playlists or data or anything. It's then just a simple matter of turning on the HD, going to preferences and selecting the music folder. Sorted. Should be the same principle of you're moving your music folder to a new HD.

Edited October 6, 2015 by xybert

[John L]

I am about to copy all my music to an external, and eventually point iTunes to the external. So are you saying I will lose the playlists? I know where the music is stored on my local drive, but where are the playlists stored?

I need to clear my local drive which is almost full. I was going to copy the whole local drive to the external, then delete the music from the local drive. Since I assume the playlists are somewhere on C:, will this guarantee that iTunes will still recognize the playlists once I start pointing to the external? I also hope to just keep the external connected at all times.

Bertrand.

Be sure and make copies of all of your playlists.   I made the mistake of not doing that once and lost them when itunes crashed.   It is easy to make copies   Select a playlist and go to file - library- export.   Then even if itunes fails to recognize your playlists when you switch your default to the external drive, you can just reload them simply (import).

[mjzee]

 

Be sure and make copies of all of your playlists.   I made the mistake of not doing that once and lost them when itunes crashed.   It is easy to make copies   Select a playlist and go to file - library- export.   Then even if itunes fails to recognize your playlists when you switch your default to the external drive, you can just reload them simply (import).

John, have you successfully done this before?  Because I have a backup of my pre-migration files.  My fear is that iTunes won't recognize my new files when I want to switch back.

[John L]

 

Be sure and make copies of all of your playlists.   I made the mistake of not doing that once and lost them when itunes crashed.   It is easy to make copies   Select a playlist and go to file - library- export.   Then even if itunes fails to recognize your playlists when you switch your default to the external drive, you can just reload them simply (import).

John, have you successfully done this before?  Because I have a backup of my pre-migration files.  My fear is that iTunes won't recognize my new files when I want to switch back.

Mjzee - As I wrote above, you can save (backup) your playlists to whatever drive you want.  Like Betrand, I don't even know where to find my playlists if I don't save them in that way.  If itunes fails to recognize your playlists in this case, as happened to me before, you can just load them back into itunes through the "import" function.  Yes, I have done that before. It is very easy.  Once you load them, itunes will recognize them. 

[mjzee]

John: Thanks for the tip.  I was able to find a prior iTunes Library.itl file, and find my playlists through June 2014, which I've copied to an Excel file for future reference.  Sometime after that must have been when iTunes started saving new additions to a different folder.  So some good came out of it.

[mjzee]

Well, I think I have a happy ending to my saga.  I found another version of the "iTunes Library.itl" file, and when I opened it (by opening iTunes while holding down the option key, and then selecting this .itl file), it was the most up-to-date version, including all my playlists.  It was like seeing an old friend again.  I think one problem with iTunes is it doesn't tell you the location of the .itl file it's using; under "Preferences" you can specify the location of the iTunes Media folder, but not the location of the .itl file.  Therefore, over time, it seems to scatter .itl files in various places on your hard drive.  

Now that I know the location of the .itl file I want, I'd like to move it to a more obvious, findable spot.  Do you think there's a risk in moving it?

[Shawn]

It doesn't scatter the library file all over your hard drive.  iTunes saves all the database files in one location only (on a Mac it's the Music/iTunes folder).  The media files you can choose to store elsewhere.  That is the only user configurable option.  

I did tech support for Apple for awhile and iTunes is one of those things that is really really simple to use...IF you let iTunes control everything.  99% of the technical issues with iTunes I ran across was user error.  

The initial problem you had was the first guy at Apple tech support you spoke with sent you down the completely wrong path.  The initial instruction he gave you was incorrect.  

I've migrated my iTunes media folder to new (larger) hard drives on several occasions and if you let iTunes do the process for you then no play counts, playlists or anything like that will be lost.  If you try to do it manually...it will get screwed up.  

Edited October 16, 2015 by Shawn

[mjzee]

OK, so right now the Library.itl file is  in the Music/iTunes folder.  I guess I should take any other Library.itl files and rename them "old" or something like that, so there's only one "official" Library.itl file.

[Shawn]

You don't have to rename the other files because iTunes is only paying attention to the .itl file that is in the Music/iTunes folder.  Not sure how the others were created but they are superfluous.

If you back up your computer with Time Machine you'll always have access to a backup copy of your library file.  One time I had a lightning storm knock out my power and when I brought up iTunes the library file had been corrupted and could not be repaired.  All I had to do was grab the file from the previous day and drop it in the folder and all was right with the world again.  

 

[Neal Pomea]

Works fine (music playback) now that I updated to Windows 10. Crossing my fingers.