Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
romualdo

Ellington Mosaic (Brunswick) box ERROR (now corrected)

25 posts in this topic

Wasn't sure whether to place this in Mosaic or Discography categories but here goes

I've just noticed that the two alternate takes of Blackbird Melody, pt 2 (Disc 4, tracks 21 & 22) appear identical audibly (& timing 3:06) on the Mosaic set - can anyone else confirm that?

On The Neatwork CD "Duke Ellington Alternative Takes, Vol. 4 (33-36)" the two alternates sound very different & have varying timings - tk B (3:05) & tk C (3:12). Looks like Mosaic used both alternate takes B in their set!!

This hasn't been mentioned at the DEMS site AFAIK.

Edited by romualdo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

confirmation http://www.ellingtonia.com/discography/1931-1940.html

 

33021705

B13080-A

Blackbirds Medley - Part 2

Br 6516, CBS 88082, Mc MD9-248, Cl (F) 637

   

5. Dixie

 
   

6. Diga Diga Doo

 
   

7. Porgy

 
   

8. I Can't Give You Anything But Love

 

33021706

B13080-B

Blackbirds Medley - Part 2

Co OL-6770, CBS 88082, Mc MD9-248, Nw RP2033

   

5. Dixie

 
   

6. Diga Diga Doo

 
   

7. Porgy

 
   

8. I Can't Give You Anything But Love

 

33021707

B13080-C

Blackbirds Medley - Part 2

UtD 2009, Nw RP2033

   

5. Dixie

 
   

6. Diga Diga Doo

 
   

7. Porgy

 
   

8. I Can't Give You Anything But Love

     

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mesfen said:

What is DEMS site AFAIK?

Unfortunately DEMS (Duke Ellington Music Society) ceased operation with the death of the great Sjef Hoefsmith. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i don't understand why none of the duke researchers have taken over Sjef's duties. it was extremely useful to get a quarterly update about new releases and discoveries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, l p said:

i don't understand why none of the duke researchers have taken over Sjef's duties. it was extremely useful to get a quarterly update about new releases and discoveries.

He was devoting his life to it.  I was hoping a consortium of several people could take it over  and volunteered to help but got no takers.  It was a big job.  I've also tried to create some interest in putting the new DESOR on line and updating it  via crowd sourcing to no avail. (In honesty I haven't tried that hard in either case-- just suggested it to a few people.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mesfen said:

What is DEMS site AFAIK?

AFAIK - As far as I know

9 hours ago, l p said:

confirmation http://www.ellingtonia.com/discography/1931-1940.html

 

33021705

 

B13080-A

 

Blackbirds Medley - Part 2

 

Br 6516, CBS 88082, Mc MD9-248, Cl (F) 637

 

   

5. Dixie

 

 
   

6. Diga Diga Doo

 

 
   

7. Porgy

 

 
   

8. I Can't Give You Anything But Love

 

 

33021706

 

B13080-B

 

Blackbirds Medley - Part 2

 

Co OL-6770, CBS 88082, Mc MD9-248, Nw RP2033

 

   

5. Dixie

 

 
   

6. Diga Diga Doo

 

 
   

7. Porgy

 

 
   

8. I Can't Give You Anything But Love

 

 

33021707

 

B13080-C

 

Blackbirds Medley - Part 2

 

UtD 2009, Nw RP2033

 

   

5. Dixie

 

 
   

6. Diga Diga Doo

 

 
   

7. Porgy

 

 
   

8. I Can't Give You Anything But Love

 

     

 

 

Thanks for the update - hadn't used the Ellingtonia site before (looks comprehensive) - I've been using DEMS/DESOR - sad to see the cessation of this great resource - hopefully it will get "kick started" again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, romualdo said:

I've just noticed that the two alternate takes of Blackbird Melody, pt 2 (Disc 4, tracks 21 & 22) appear identical audibly (& timing 3:06) on the Mosaic set - can anyone else confirm that?

these are not the same. compare the trumpet solo starting at 1:27. 

if yours are the same, then maybe you have an early pressing before they fixed the mistake. they are both 3:06.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, l p said:

these are not the same. compare the trumpet solo starting at 1:27. 

if yours are the same, then maybe you have an early pressing before they fixed the mistake. they are both 3:06.

 

Just listened again - the trumpet solos at 1:27 sound identical (tracks 21 & 22)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think we need a 3rd opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, l p said:

i think we need a 3rd opinion.

I agree - 3rd or more

Then why do the alternate takes on the Neatwork CD sound so different (plus have different timings - 3:09 vs 3:16 on my computer)

I've shot off an email to Mosaic - see what they have to say.

Edited by romualdo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, l p said:

here are my tracks 21 and 22. does the trumpet solo sound the same on these to you?

21
http://picosong.com/xGk5

22
http://picosong.com/xGkg
 

I have to say I stand corrected - what gave it away from me was the trumpet solos at 2:40 - they are quite audibly different - that is for your two versions & mine also - put the two tracks through audacity & there are variations in the wave forms between the two. Generally though the two tracks sound very similar ie start & end sound identical. Why is the version on the Neatwork CD so different & Ellingtonia website omits one version from the Mosaic box?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i started comparing the two versions at the beginning of the trumpet solo, and within the first 30-45 seconds of that comparison, i heard at least 3 differences.

sound quality and variance in speed can make things sound different. ellingtonia.com does have mistakes.

maybe the neatwork cd has a 4th version. 

Edited by l p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

or maybe ellingtonia is insinuating that on the mosaic box, take C is the same as take A. i haven't compared these two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take A is the shortest of the three so I don' t think so.

Edited by miles65
Forgot ome word

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic:

Producer/archivist Steve Lasker answered reader questions and gave his own corrections for Mosaic's 11 CD Brunswick set in a DEMS from 2011. I think all of Lasker's corrections have to do with errors/omissions/mis-spellings in his liner notes and the discography.

At the very end of this same section he also offers similar corrections for what he calls the "7 CD box booklet" (i.e.. Duke Ellington: The Complete 1936-40 Variety, Vocalion And Okeh Small Group Sessions).

DUKE ELLINGTON MUSIC SOCIETY    11/1 April - July 2011

http://www.depanorama.net/dems/111.htm

(scroll down a bit to the section titled "The Mosaic 11 CD Box Set")

Edited by jdw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jdw said:

Slightly off topic:

Producer/archivist Steve Lasker answered reader questions and gave his own corrections for Mosaic's 11 CD Brunswick set in a DEMS from 2011. I think all of Lasker's corrections have to do with errors/omissions/mis-spellings in his liner notes and the discography.

At the very end of this same section he also offers similar corrections for what he calls the "7 CD box booklet" (i.e.. Duke Ellington: The Complete 1936-40 Variety, Vocalion And Okeh Small Group Sessions).

DUKE ELLINGTON MUSIC SOCIETY    11/1 April - July 2011

http://www.depanorama.net/dems/111.htm

(scroll down a bit to the section titled "The Mosaic 11 CD Box Set")

I did make a copy of that DEMS article in 2011 & have kept it in the Mosaic box & actually went back to that article the other day when I noticed what I thought was the anomaly mentioned above. Anyway, it looks like I didn't listen closely enough - the two alternate takes on the Mosaic set are definitely different - confirmed by multiple listenings & looking at waveforms through Audacity. The reason why the Neatwork versions sounded different was due to poor sonic quality (the Mosaic versions sound so much better/cleaner) & take C being slower than the Mosaic version, hence the longer timing. I also put both of these tracks through Audacity & both takes did coincide with their counterparts in the Mosaic set. Sorry all for the bum steer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for solving the riddle and clarifying!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe someone should change the title of the thread to reflect the resolution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

someone still needs to compare takes b and c to take a

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jazztrain said:

Maybe someone should change the title of the thread to reflect the resolution.

Have just tried to modify it, seeing I was the one who started the thread but I don't think i'm able to do so - does it have to be a moderator?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to go to the first post, click "edit" - then you can modify the thread title. Just click on the line, mark the words you want to delete etc, just like you would in text editor. Then click "save" - that's it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/13/2016 at 4:05 PM, mikeweil said:

You have to go to the first post, click "edit" - then you can modify the thread title. Just click on the line, mark the words you want to delete etc, just like you would in text editor. Then click "save" - that's it.

just corrected the title - many thanks for the tip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.